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Thread: Miles2 SCSI questions..

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
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    Prairie du Chien, WI
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    98

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    I thought I'd better move our discussion off anarch's thread, I have a question for you Kaye.

    I plan on adding more HD's to my (2)miles2's besides the 2 15k cheetahs I already have going. I would like to stick with two addtional 15k cheetahs, and stripe all 4. (I need lots of fast storage for movies, and am aware my write speeds will not greatly increase, just love 15k cheetahs like Louie.) Will I have to get granite cables to pull this off?

    I read in your post to anarch that more than one cheetah on a miles2 original twisted cable will cause it to puke. Did I read you right? Or am I just misreading again? Could I get away with a 10k on the miles2 chain with the 15k without going granite?

    Also thinking that if this "write through" problem isn't solved soon, I would be better off getting a 10k and booting off it and writing to the 15k Cheetahs so I can uncheck "write through", and regain my processor speed. Is it a fair trade-0ff?

    I remember in your previous posts that you have an additional 10k HD on your Miles2 chain and you said it was the last drive on the chain. Did you mean the self-terminated end of the chain, (farthest out on the Chain from the miles2)?

    Let me know your thoughts...
    Terri

    [This message has been edited by tekcan (edited 19 March 2001).]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    7,056

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    Terri,

    If you add more X15s, I think you will need to go Granite. I did need to. But YMMV, so you might want to try the Initio LVD cables/terminators first before springing for the Granite stuff. Just to increase sustained reads tho, pretty expensive to add two more X15s. Plus, with four drives and all the cabling and more 4-pin power cables, it becomes a real headache to stuff everything in there and still get the cover on the box.

    If I recall correctly, I was able to add a 10k Cheetah (ST39204LW) to one Miles2 with one X15 and the Initio stuff. Again, YMMV. Two X15s on one Miles2, I had to go Granite.

    Any time you RAID, whether with one Miles2 or two Miles2, put the non-RAID drive last on the physical chain, whether it is a boot drive or not. Both Louie and I proved to ourselves that the system does not like looking past a non-RAID drive to access a RAID drive or drives. Yes, I have a 10k Cheetah (ST39204LW), a boot drive, on the same chain from one of the two Miles2 cards, each Miles2 driving two X15s, and the 10k Cheetah is last, next to the terminator, on one of the chains. Strictly speaking, this config is not symmetrical, but it works for me with Granite and the 10k Cheetah last on the chain.

    If you don't mind, give Louie your email address. He has some additional info for you. k

    [This message has been edited by kaye (edited 20 March 2001).]

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Dublin, CA USA
    Posts
    119

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    Kaye, we have confirmed it is a cache coherency issue with the Mac OS and the Dual G3 Processor that will not allow us to flush the cache, and causes the SCSI Bus to hang. The only work arround for this is to change the CPU cacheing option. We will try and work with the CPU upgrade people, but Winston is not real hopeful.

    Bob McWilliams

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cordova, TN
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    2,428

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    Bob:

    I'm confused! You say "the Mac OS and dual G3 processors" are at the heart of the problem and Winston is not hopeful.

    I happen to be one of several on these forums that have been waiting patiently for a fix and hearing nothing but optimistic reports until now. What is most confusing is that none of us that I know of that have the problem have "dual G3 processors". We have single G3 processors, dual Miles U2W cards and multiple X15 Cheetahs striped in RAID 0.

    All of us in this situation have spent a couple of thousand dollars or more for two Miles U2W cards, Granite cables and terminators, and X15's because "that was the way to get the most performance out of a legacy, six-slot Mac"; a philosophy preached here. Many of us have touted this combo to others who have also ponyed up the high dollars. We all thought a fix was forthcoming.

    As it stands for me, all those dollars are wasted without a fix. By having to enable write-through, my overall performance is no better than it was when using single UltraNarrow drives hosted by a BlueNote.

    I am one of those that first brought this problem to light on these forums in November. Others began reporting the same problem. No obvious concern was shone for any of our situations except from Kaye. Kaye went to a great deal of trouble to duplicate the issue on his machine and loaned it to you for two months. Each report of the two reports from you to Kaye sounded positive including the one from last week which indicated that you might even have a fix posted last Friday.

    It's not your fault the problem exists, but I firmly believe we all deserve a better explanation of the discrepancies between your earlier reports and the one today.

    As much as I love upgrading old Macs and as much as I love this forum, if this issue is not fixable, I will seriously consider getting out of the upgrade field and quitting this forum because I've mislead people.

    If any of you feel that this communication should have been private to Bob, I'm sorry. I felt that it had to said here because he hasn't answered two earlier emails from me.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    936

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    Louie,

    I totally understand what you are saying and firmly believe that the post you wrote SHOULD be public domain. It is an issue that we have all dealt with, either reading about it or doing it or staying away from doing it (that's me). And I am just as interested in this as you and some others. Granted I have almost nothing at stake here, but I (for one) would absolutely hate not having you here. There is a big issue here, and I believe that hardware manufacturers have an obligation to the devout elitists that preach the gospel of high-end-upgrades. The Gurus are some of the finest troubleshooters I have seen. They (we) ride the thin line sometimes and find things out that we sometimes wish we didn't. And lots of times are even more compelled to love what we do.

    So here's to hoping and praying that they get on the ball that we all thought they were on.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cordova, TN
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    I've been trying to think of any dual processor G3 machine and I don't think there were any. We had dual 604's and dual G4's put no dual G3's.

    And, DSM, thanks for the moral support. This problem has been eating on me since Nov. and I've convinced several others to buy the same expensive goodies because I thought a fix was a hand. That hurts worse that spending my own money which I couldn't afford. You are right about finding out things that you wish you hadn't. I've been there several times in the last 2-3 weeks.

    [This message has been edited by Louie (edited 20 March 2001).]

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