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Thread: G4-MDD Upgrades

  1. #41
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    This shouldn't be so difficult!

    I thought I put the system to sleep at 6 PM.
    It had the light on the front, but was otherwise quiet.
    The light on the optical mouse was off.
    The monitor was unplugged (can't sleep with it connected_.
    Hours later I try to wake it. Desktop shows, but says 6 PM.

    Can't find the mouse pointer or use the keyboard.
    I'm not familiar with key combos for deep sleep if there is one.

    First time without ADB keyboard to use the always reliable COMMAND CONTROL POWER keys to force reboot. I had to turn off power going to the G4 on the power strip, then back on, and reboot. Not good.

    Sonnet? Adaptec? OrangeMicro?

    Has a new Adaptec 29160 and ATTO UL3S, both should be fine. But put in the 39160... had to use the setenv fcode-debug? true command in OF and still no boot. Even with ATTO UL3S also there and with boot drive. Put in OEM UL3D, boots fine. Weird. And I thought I had too many SCSI cards!
    ----------

    CRT - better luck. I don't have to remove the VGA cable. I can shutdown.
    ASP sees my LCD as "CRT." Don't know if that is because even Panther's System Profiler isn't accurate or not.

    Microsoft Intellimouse Optical - I have to unplug, change USB port, plug back in to get the mouse to show after sleep of even 20 seconds. Bad driver? Not compliant with sleep? Give Apple's mouse a try - even though I would find it hard to use, it SHOULD work (you'd hope so).

    * maybe it's the driver, rather than the mouse?
    Update: that MS startup item and/or disconnect the MS Optical helped. - First time able to go straight to (deep) sleep and wake up with the mouse working, using Apple Mouse.

    Self-powered bus vs using PCI USB card.
    10.2.5 "broke" (removed support code) for USB devices and hubs (including k/b's) that did not "comply" with more stringent code introduced in 10.2.5. (and changed or replaced, reinserted, in 10.2.6).

    I miss those MacWorld and MacUser lab tests that would look at issues and topics to help users find the best printer, scanner, mouse. So that's where I'm off to... to track down product reviews, reports, recommendations at MacWorld.com
    ------------------
    Zonet USB 2.0 PCI adapter ? 4+1 ports $11
    Yet one of the better USB 1.1/2.0 cards you can buy.

    Sonnet Tempo Trio

    Over-kill. But it looks to do the job. Was for my Beige, then put it in B&W to conserve PCI slots and allow me to use 160GB ATA. Now... as a USB 1.1/2.0/FireWire card (I didn't realize it even WAS USB2 compliant).

    -----------
    It is nice being able to have Trio, two video cards, and two SCSI controllers.

    [This message was edited by TZ on Fri February 06, 2004 PT at 8:29.]

  2. #42
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    Check the Xbench Results comparing my B&W G4/500 to G4(MDD) 1.25/SP.

    I wanted to wait on buying until I felt that I would see a full 300% improvement, and it seemed like it would take G5/1.8 to do it, and got really tired waiting, plus the MDD seemed like a real bargin.

  3. #43
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    TZ,

    ?Something you may or may not know is that G4 and G5 computers that have a Power Management Unit, this doesn't include the Yikes, have the ability to power down by holding the power button down for 6 or 7 seconds. You should almost never need to pull the plug. Only if the PMU is crashed do you need to pull the plug and that's a rarity since it is mostly unconcerned with stuff that effects the kernel.

    ?I quit using sleep years ago, these kinds of things are way to common for my tastes.

    Rick

    Quis Custodiet Custodes Ipsos?

  4. #44
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    I can't sleep if the system isn't working properly.

    So the last 48 hrs have been busy - but it wasn't until after I had the MDD that I re-read and understood how DVI or DVI-VGA adapted monitors can have a problem with the ATI Radeon 9000 - such that it won't go to sleep, or won't awaken - and reboots when it should shutdown.

    Putting CRT on DVI-VGA worked where LCD VGA did not. And Radeon 9800 has native VGA and DVI support, so no trouble there.

    I prefer to put it to (deep) sleep when I need it quiet, want a break. Before I would shutdown - the B&W was too loud and had to raise the volume on the TV to hear. Reducing noise levels was one of the incentives in this purchase.

    Having to unplug the monitor from the DVI adapater anytime I wanted to shutdown or put it to sleep.

    I am furious at how tight those 4-pin power cords to drives can be. I have actually been in a full sweat moving stuff around, installing drives, trying to get cables attached (and put away).

    Eventually I need to call Kenny and get some custom cables I think later on. And a FireWire case, but can wait on that. I want to try booting from FireWire and have an emergency setup.

    Still testing out which SCSI card works or not and why. MDD's need that Open Firmware command supposedly, and 39160 is more of a problem than it was in B&W (which is now stripped down).

    I need the keyboard command to go immediately to Deep Sleep - for ME!

  5. #45
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    CINEBENCH 2003 v1
    ************************************************** **

    Processor : G4-MDD
    MHz : 1250
    Number of CPUs : 1
    Operating System : 10.3.2

    Graphics Card : R9800 Pro
    Resolution : 1280x1024
    Color Depth : Millions
    ************************************************** **

    Rendering (Single CPU): 116 CB-CPU
    Rendering (Multiple CPU): --- CB-CPU

    Shading (CINEMA 4D) : 144 CB-GFX
    Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 390 CB-GFX
    Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 830 CB-GFX

    OpenGL Speedup: 5.77
    ************************************************** **

    RADEON 9000 PRO:

    Shading (CINEMA 4D)_______________ : 143 CB-GFX
    Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 372 CB-GFX
    Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 506 CB-GFX

    OpenGL Speedup: 3.54
    --------------------

  6. #46
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    TZ,

    Marvelous Cinebench 2003 results with that R9800 Pro. And what a difference between it and the R9000 Pro. k

  7. #47
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    TZ,

    Good to see you having some fun and producing some great numbers. You've been needing/wanting a new puter and you of all people deserve it! Thanks for all you advice and information you provide to this forum.


  8. #48
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    When sleep was first introduced it was buggy and IMHO nothing has changed in the intervening years. Oh sure maybe they are DIFFERENT bugs these days but bugs they are. Seems that if you even think about using a PCI card then your Mac won't deep sleep, and should you find one that does allow you to deep sleep chances are it won't wake up.

    I will turn off my monitor if I don't want to shut down.

    Damien,

    Damien's Stuff

  9. #49
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    The only thing now that prevents deep sleep... is the cat pushing the mouse!

    Sonnet has done a good job with Tempo series. USB2 and supplying individual levels of power to connected devices.

    ATTO cards support advanced power management (the non-Apple term regarding this stuff), and I figured the G5's were a new creature, but the MDD was the last of the G4 breed and, at least, best chance if anything did.

    Just having the old ATI Radeon Mac (aka 7200) lowered by scores in some tests. And, while possible to have two video cards, two scsi cards, and Sonnet Tempo Trio - wouldn't work if one of the SCSI cards was the 39160 (which is dual function, as well as dual channel, 66 and 33 MHz capable).

    I wonder if Sonnet's $99 SATA FirmTek version has addressed PCI card level PCB issues...?

    Yes, it is a maze and jungle out there. But then, I was resolved to - which is why I spent an add'l $400 for R9800 (I can fly through graphics a tad faster... but not enough to matter), but I refuse to have an LCD that won't work. (turning off the LCD didn't help, it would still reboot). It is also a KNOWN bug with R9000 and DVI-to-VGA! Apple KB....

  10. #50
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    When I bought the Pioneer "SuperDrive" model from OWC, I saw that they had a black model also. Now that I can't use the beige w/o cutting corners on the optical drive bay to allow the drive door to drop open, I wonder if it is like the Combo drive, also black, with a small door?

    Is the Apple (OEM) SuperDrive black like the Combo drive?

    Probably wait and see on A07 or later model at this point.

    [This message was edited by TZ on Sat February 07, 2004 PT at 6:19.]

  11. #51
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    Just done that same thing today, goodbye B&W G4/500 hello 1.25MDD!!

    If your Pioneer is anything like mine, the front panel on it slides off and then it ejects ok. Friend has a DP1.42 with a Pioneer 105 and we noticed that basically the front was missing from it.

  12. #52
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    I can't see removing the front door on the Pioneer... I'll look for a more "elegant" solution.

    Congrats on your new MDD-DP!

    My $1200 (shipped) + RAM + R9800 = $1775 now (and I know I'm not done!).

    What I am enjoying, is one of the 'side benefits' I was looking forward to - booting off a pair of X15 drives. Older, so the speed isn't any better than a pair of Hitachi 160GB drives that also have 8MB cache, and less than a pair of the SATA Raptor 73GB models would offer...

    Running into weird SCSI controller conflicts using more than one card... don't know what that is about, as I did it without this trouble in my Blue G4. (Which inherited the Seagate 7200.7 from the MDD. - that drive IS quiet by itself and is running off the native ATA/33 IDE bus in the B&W and getting 10.3.2 installed).

  13. #53
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    "I can't see removing the front door on the Pioneer... I'll look for a more "elegant" solution. "

    ?Those were made to be removed when you install them internally behind another door. That is purely a cosmetic cover for the optical drive when it is open to the world in an external case or in a tower that leaves the entire front of the drive exposed. You'll probably need to remove, slip it off, snap it off or whatever just to get the proper clearance from the faceplate of the tower.

    Rick

    Quis Custodiet Custodes Ipsos?

  14. #54
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    Better that than the X-acto knife. I can't see how to even 'snap' 'pop' or get Rice Krippies from a Pioneer.

    Any ideas as to why it has been impossible to remove the molex power connector?

    Also, when I try to slip the top drive out, it 'catches' on something.

    I tell you, I've sweated, sworn, and lost patience at times with "upgrading" and customizing.

    AGP removeal, replacement:

    Tight connections etc. The scariest, though, had to be finding it next to impossible to get the Radeon 9000 out. My first time with AGP, maybe they have a different fit? there is something along the base of the slot at the rear. I couldn't tell if it was suppose to be 'released' to let it out, scared to use excess or too much force... and, of course, I hadn't seen instructions for AGP, and couldn't get online with the machine apart (and the other two stripped and in transition - not sure what to make of my old B&W and Beige which I stripped for parts).

  15. #55
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    YEAH,

    ?Do be careful with that AGP card. It has a 'bend out of the way' latch that is part of the socket, I pulled too hard once and peeled a component off a 'used' to be good Radeon Mac Edition. Threw that in the trash ten minutes later because I didn't notice the stupid latch. Dumb, but predictable for those of us who never saw a latch on a stupid PCI card socket.

    Rick

    Quis Custodiet Custodes Ipsos?

  16. #56
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    Rick,

    I am close to being fed up with SCSI cards. Sound familiar? One channel on 39160 won't work along with the other.

    Trouble mixing SCSI cards.

    I was this close! to having everything working with two SCSI drives on one controller, and one drive on another card. Then, I wanted to have two drives on each (the MDD is designed that way).

    So I RAID a pair of X15's with SoftRAID. Fine so far.

    Then I read that I should in fact be able to boot from RAID, so I use Disk Utility and use Apple RAID. CCC my system, select the RAID, boots fine. BUT the non-RAID drives don't show. Later on, I've got the non-RAID drives showing, but no sign of the RAID!

    And that's where I am now.

    And the Granite cables aren't designed perfectly for this scenerio.

    UL4D: $479
    2 x Ultra320 internal cables, custom length: $240
    (and with two drives close together in those nice metal drive brackets, is heat a problem? Seems it should be "safe."
    (but there is a smell of something from inside, sort of glue or plastic or just new computer outgasing from heat of running solid?}

    The temp is 149 degrees in the cpu core, and the fan temp is 99 degrees (was running 92 degrees previously).

  17. #57
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    I am still totally puzzled by the problem of Why can't I use the ATTO UL3S and Adaptec 39160, which worked fine in B&W?

    One idea, they were on separate sides of the PCI bridge, the 39160 was in the 66 MHz slot.

    Exasperating.

    What's the best price on ATTO UL4D?

    I'm loosing sleep over this one.

  18. #58
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    Here's one for 395$ Cheapest I know of... I would be VERY interested in finding one cheaper (hint hint) I have this tax check you see, and it needs to be spent...

    Damien,

    Damien's Stuff

  19. #59
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    Thanks, Damian, I've been on the floor all day working inside and out testing things, and forced to get my B&W back runnning in the meantime.

    Looks like there just plain TOO MUCH HEAT next to that huge heat sink and all the heat, plus having two 15K drives (two year old X15.2s) - which also may be blocking some of the air.

    Wasn't the controller - it was fine with just ONE 15K drive there. Moving them to external, and put Hitachi 160GB in their place. And set back to the wall so there is more room and air flow. Those SCSI cables and terminator were also making for tight quarters.

    The two drives, 15K boot drive and 10K for home etc under the optical drives seem fine and don't get warm - they are also very recent model Atlas drives from last fall.

    Looks like the 39160 will be okay.

    What is really different and puzzles me, Panther CD sees drives connected to 39160, but the B&W wouldn't unless it had later drivers. Which is why I think if they say Panther is supported back to B&W, they should do more testing. If all the developers have newer systems, they won't see the same problems. Now, I have ZERO INSIGHT as to Why? but the MDD has a lot of refinements and updates - just another 'sign' or reason when you fall 5 yrs back, things like this happen - which I saw two years ago or more with 9.2.1 update and conflict with ATTO firmware - only affected B&W, Yikes!, PCI G4 and Sawtooth. AGP + were fine. Part of why I can use an OEM ATTO UL3D with v. 1.6.1 firmware with 9.2.2 and 10.3.2 on MDD but not in B&W at all.

  20. #60
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    Well, the two drives survived better than I did.


    Put them in B&W and the RAID is intact and no problems found or reported. Yosemite looks roomy compared to inside of MDD now.

    Don't suppose there is room for cooler paks. Would love to take dry ice they use for shipping food cross-country, put that - or those liquid ice packs you put in the freezer, then take on trips.

    Things are working.

    Going back to B&W (G4/500 etc) feels a lot slower than it did a week ago, though.



    [This message was edited by TZ on Sun February 08, 2004 PT at 8:01.]

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