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Thread: Need help quickly!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
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    Ok, I'm having severe problems with my Powermac 8600/200 now. I was just saving a SimpleText file, and the Mac crashed. I restarted using control-apple-power keys, and there is no video coming from my Mac! I had a similar problem before with a Powerlogix 450Mhz G4 card which I sent back. I had installed the XLR8 CarrierZIF card and 500Mhz IBM G3 ZIF on Monday, and the system worked perfectly. On Friday I installed another 128MB stick of FPM RAM from OWC (already had three 128MB sticks of OWC RAM in there). It still worked perfectly. Today I was on it, it worked fine until I went to save a SimpleText document, and the Mac crashed, I restarted, no video. I restarted a few times, still no video. I have shut it down, waited a while, and restarted. Still no video. What the hell has gone wrong now? The rest of my configuration is:
    Powermac 8600/200
    XLR8 CarrierZIF w/ 500Mhz IBM G3 ZIF
    512MB interleaved OWC FPM RAM
    46GB IBM Desktar 75GXP drive on VST Ultratek/66 ATA PCI
    2GB stock hard drive
    ADS 2-port USB PCI card
    3dfx Voodoo 5 5500 PCI
    It was working perfectly until now, and I don't know what went wrong. Ideas? I really need some help to get this Mac going again because I have a few things I need to get done on it. Thanks

  2. #2
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    Oct 2000
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    Have you reset the Cuda button? The little red button by the processor card.

    Have you double/triple checked everything is seated correctly and is making good contact?

    Have you reset the NVRAM? Hold down command-option-P-R from a cold start until you hear the startup chime 3 times, then let go and let it boot normally?

  3. #3
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    arlington,vermont
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    If it were me i would remove the 128 stick and the xlr8 card..put the OEM proessor in the machine and try to boot from the OS cd or a disk warrior cd. By no video do you mean black screen? Grey screen? What kind of chimes are you getting? One thing to try is the power cable to the monitor...on viewsonics they have a tendency to come loose at the monitor.

  4. #4
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    Jun 2001
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    http://dealchat.com/mac/read.html?id...&thread=459953

    This post I made probably makes more sense with the whole thread, but none the less.....

    The PowerLogix card wouldn't run at it's rated speed, that was a defect with that PL card. Didn't matter what the config was, the PL G4/450 you had didn't operate to spec. That makes it a messed card. You know have that know bad part out of the equation.

    The chimes and doesn't power up is a whole different issue. And it seems to be intermittant and it sounds like a bad connection in your box. I used to test PCI upgrades by the zillion... ok exageration... used to test a lot of cards. The chimes but black screen occurred for me in several situations related to the Processor card....

    Card seated, but bad connection...

    Card seated, but from multiple uses of the slot, a pin in the slot connector didn't reset and didn't pop back out to make connection... was able to coax it back to normal.

    Processor clocked to a speed that is too high (since your running stock, not likely)

    processor card was bad.(not likely given all and all the details/history)

    My best guess with the info you have provided is that the processor card slot might be fatigued from all the processor upgrade swapping. From you prev thread:


    So... I'd double check the slot... And try again. No dice, go to a min config just to see if she fire's up and then put what you tool out back in piece by piece. If it is truly a problem with the slto, it could just atart working again too.

    And if you haven't already.... Reset the Cuda switch and Zap the P-Ram prior to spending time going back to square #1.

    Hope this helps.

    One more thing.... I have never heard of a G4 needing a 'strong' PRAM' battery. The p-ram battery either has the juice to keep the PRam alive or it doesn't, When the computer is powered, it does not depend on the battery to store the settings. I don't know where PowerLogix came up with that one. Something else I will have to look into.... If it's true, well stranger things.... But the G4./450 you had was still hosed.

  5. #5
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    Jan 2001
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    Thanks for the help, as I also posted at DealMac, all the connections and cards were checked in the 8600, and were all seated properly. I decided to pull that last 128MB FPM DIMM I installed the other day, and the machine boots properly and seems to be back to normal, so I'm figuring that particular DIMM is bad.

  6. #6
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    Also posted on dealmac...

    Make sure that you isolate the problem to the dimm... do that by swapping the new dimm with a dimm in the known working config. Leave the extra DIMM out for the test.

    If the computer operates OK, then the problem is not the new 128MB dimm.

    In that case, install the extra DIMM again... If it then has issue again, it's likely that you need to de-interleave as it is well documented that upgrades don't always work well with interleaved memory.

    If it continues to work ok, run the mem test... but I'd put money on a connection problem somewhere... especially since the interleaved config was A-OK for more than a day.

    fun fun fun.

  7. #7
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    Where is it consistently documented that upgrades don't work well with interleaved RAM?

  8. #8
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    Is it the display that the V5 is on? The same thing happened to me twice, and both times a little wiggle on the Molex power cable splitter to the card worked. FWIW, this was not the splitter supplied with the card.

  9. #9
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    Mactheripper...where is it documented that upgrades dont work well with interleaved memory?........my guess is Powerlogix.
    Now I have a question.......Is the situation Mactacular described something XLR8 "Power Control" would pick up on? ie. the memory test would ID the bad DIMM, right? Wouldn't the Processor test ID the card as faulty? Hindsight is 20/20 I know, just, IF he had run the tests before the video went out, shouldnt they have picked up on the problems?

    [This message has been edited by Macdaddi2u (edited 25 June 2001).]

  10. #10
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    First of all, interleaved memory works fine with upgrade cards. Interleaving has nothing to do with the processor card unless said card is giving the buses problems, and everything to do with the memory controller. Depending on the chip used, interleaving will or will not work.

    Second, non-spec RAM, whether too slow, non-buffered if necessary, or improper voltage specs, has been shown to cause all kinds of weird problems with many different types of processor upgrade cards, b/c of the closer tolerances forced on the system bus by the faster CPU.

    Lastly, RAM should not have much to do with the video. My suggestion is to first use compressed air and blow out all the connections, from processor card to PCI slots to RAM slots. Then check all cables and make sure they're tight. Second, troubleshoot the RAM and ascertain whether you have a bad stick. Run XLR8 PowerControl RAM tests, TechTool Pro RAM tests, and PowerFrax in the background overnight for each test. Overkill, maybe, but thorough. Finally, consider reinstalling the system if you can. If you haven't done so in the last year, it could work wonders, esp. since you would have to carefully reinstall all the extensions for those cards, which would give you the opportunity to weed out crap and make it all run nice.

  11. #11
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    as far as I am concerned, a failure to interleave means that either memory or daughtercard (as the case may be) are defective.

    we routinely stuff our Macs completely with memory, installing matching DIMMs in all slots--interleaving by default. A failure to run in a rock-solid manner means something is amiss.

    again, this is just my opinion. Various manufacturers or vendors may state otherwise. My standards, and hence, the standards of MacGurus, are likely more stringent.

  12. #12
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    I don't know about all processor upgrade cards in all macs, but I for one can say that interleaved RAM is a bad idea for PowerTower Pros and Sonnet G4 cards. This system would not boot no matter what voodoo I performed. Zapping PRAM, removing all extra PCI cards, reseating cards, intializing drive & reinstalling OS, cussing...NOTHING worked until I de-interleaved the RAM as Sonnet and other Mac users suggested. Just my two cents.

  13. #13
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    Maybe that's the case then - I'm running interleaved on all my Macs (well - as best I could - there are a couple of mismatches) and we're running all XLR8 products G3/333, G3/400, G3/500 and a G4/500 ZIF - no problems...

    Chris

  14. #14
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    This may be of passing interest to Chris, as I know he's got a bunch of 7300's.

    One documented problem with interleaving is with my 7300 and a two and a half year old Sonnet g3/300/1MB. It would start up fine but freeze on the second scroll ( not the 1st - the second).

    Sonnet at first had no clue, and had spent a lot of time with me troubleshooting, so I yanked it, intending to fool around with it after I finished the work I had to get done. I'm the kind of guy that thinks it must be something with my set up instead of a bad card.

    That turned into a couple of months, as it will, and when I tried it again, after pulling and checking the RAM which was all good quality 60ns 2K EDO, it repeated the freezing.

    Again called Sonnett and this time they told me to try it de-interleaved. They had had reports. Worked like a charm.

    It's gotta be the memory controller (or something) in the 7300 and the Sonnet because I stuck the Sonnet and that same memory along with other good memory, into the 9600/200 that you guys, er, folks (sorry Rebecca) have been assisting me with and everything runs as it should.

    I've since read other reports regarding that generation of Sonnet cards and the 7300 regarding interleaved memory, so I'm pretty sure it's not isolated. If it's universal to that setup, I don't know.

    Greg

    [This message has been edited by gt (edited 29 June 2001).]

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