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Thread: Reconfigure old Burly Box to new?

  1. #1
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    Default Reconfigure old Burly Box to new?

    Way back near the beginning I got one of your Burly Boxes.
    Some kind of SATA cords that dont look familiar, power supply, fan.
    anyway, I wonder if there is something can be done
    to make this item useful on a MacPro 2020, perhaps
    to outfit it to USB 3 gen 2 capability or better yet, Thunderbolt?
    I dont know how. What do tou think?
    Thanks
    Steve Z denver

  2. #2
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    This is what it almost looks like
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  3. #3
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    Steve,

    I'd be much more inclined to stay eSATA and stick a current PCIe card in the new MacPro to run it. Bootable, native SATA from end to end instead of converting to another bus and then back again.

    And PCIe IS Thunderbolt, and vice versa. If you were able to purchase a Thunderbolt to SATA card to install inside the Burly, it would be exactly the same as installing a SATA card in the PCI slot inside the MacPro. Just lots more expensive. Unfortunately, Intel controls everything Thunderbolt and they do not allow any component parts to be marketed. Can't buy chips to make cards. Can only buy chips to make complete devices. Makes it too expensive to attempt any custom anything Thunderbolt.

    Going USB3 is certainly doable. But, it wouldn't run as good, meaning as reliable, as an eSATA box. Nor would it improve speeds any.

    You can also easily replace whatever tray system you have in the Burly with a trayless setup that is lots more convenient and quieter.
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricks View Post
    Steve,

    I'd be much more inclined to stay eSATA and stick a current PCIe card in the new MacPro to run it. Bootable, native SATA from end to end instead of converting to another bus and then back again.

    well, this is what is in there now. Is this equivalent? Thanks!
    https://www.sonnettech.com/product/a...sb31-pcie.html

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  5. #5
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    That's a USB card. You would then be needing to convert your Burly to USB.

    Going to USB is more complex without any gains in performance. Here's how the logic looks with a USB bridge in between:

    PCIe bus -> USB -> USB to SATA bridge -> SATA drive


    Here's what that looks like with an eSATA card:

    PCIe bus -> eSATA -> SATA drive


    In the end, the slowest part of the connection is the SATA drive itself. Performance is the same. Functional reliability with a pure SATA bus is much better than adding the USB bridge in between.
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricks View Post
    Steve,

    I'd be much more inclined to stay eSATA and stick a current PCIe card in the new MacPro to run it. Bootable, native SATA from end to end instead of converting to another bus and then back again.





    Going USB3 is certainly doable. But, it wouldn't run as good, meaning as reliable, as an eSATA box. Nor would it improve speeds any.



    You can also easily replace whatever tray system you have in the Burly with a trayless setup that is lots more convenient and quieter.
    So Esata is the peculiar connection i see on this burly?
    I hate to buy ANOTHER thing for this computer. Are there cheaper 2-slot cards?
    I presume there is no reason to hunger for top transfer speeds when platter disks are the medium?

    hmm, doesn't look right. My burly takes TWO disks (preferred), has a fan, and yes, easy in, easy out is the right idea.

  7. #7
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    I don't know what you mean by peculiar. eSATA means 'external SATA' and is a connector. The data transfer is SATA, which is what the drives are. Simple and robust and been around a long time (since 2004). Many PCs have native eSATA, USB and other even more peculiar ports. Never had a Mac with eSATA natively is the only off putting part of that. When eSATA came out no Mac came native with USB3 and eSATA is much much more robust high speed drive bus than USB3 ever was.

    The reason I sell just the one card is it is the only one I know of that uses AHCI drivers, which are built into all operating systems. Makes the card pretty much agnostic as to what operating system is on a computer. Mac OS, Windows, Linux, Novell, whatever. And yeah, it is a high end card that is capable of lot of throughput and up to 20 drives connected. And no, you do not have to get that card. Do your homework when searching for a different card, is all. I don't have a recommendation that works with all Mac operating systems, especially Catalina which requires 64 bit drivers - which is not common. And since you aren't using port multipliers you only need the simplest of cards.

    Note, the 4 port Lycom card also runs perfectly in the new MacPros.
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricks View Post
    Steve,

    You can also easily replace whatever tray system you have in the Burly with a trayless setup that is lots more convenient and quieter.

    hmm, doesn't look right. My burly takes TWO disks (preferred), has a fan, and yes, easy in, easy out, is the right idea.

    Why would it be quieter? This one was pretty quiet.

    Thanks for all your answers.

  9. #9
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    If your Burly is trayless, then it doesn't have internal fans. If your Burly uses trays, then each drive has a fan and that makes a total of three fans. Depends on how your Burly was built. Two bay is a two bay is a two bay: takes two drives no matter what type of bays are installed.
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricks View Post
    If your Burly is trayless, then it doesn't have internal fans. If your Burly uses trays, then each drive has a fan and that makes a total of three fans. Depends on how your Burly was built. Two bay is a two bay is a two bay: takes two drives no matter what type of bays are installed.
    so really there is no reason to abandon the burly because
    it will run HDDs as well as USB-3 gen-2 docks?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevez View Post
    so really there is no reason to abandon the burly because
    it will run HDDs as well as USB-3 gen-2 docks?
    Sorry, not sure what you mean. Can you describe what is meant by 'USB-3 gen-2 docks'?
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricks View Post
    Sorry, not sure what you mean. Can you describe what is meant by 'USB-3 gen-2 docks'?
    I have these portable bays for sata HDDs which have modern fast USB connections.
    But if HDDs cannot go that fast, why not use the burly? It still has
    adequate speed, if I read your posts correctly.

  13. #13
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    Oh, now I understand. You were making a comparison between the two.

    A spinning hard drive is capable of max 200 MB/sec. SSD is capable of 450-500MB/sec. This is on a SATAIII bus which spec says is 600 MB/sec but reality says is slower than that - maybe 500 MB/sec. Never seen any bus that actually passed data at the specification maximum speed.

    The Burly, attached to a SATAIII bus is fully capable of supporting that.

    A USB3.x (3.x = whatever generation) is a bridge between a SATA drive connected to a SATA chip and then to the USB bridge. That bridge is USB on one side and SATA on the other (older bridges were SATAII or SATAI). The USB3.x, as long as it is USB3.0 or later, is spec wise as fast or faster than a SATAIII drive. So it has no effect on the drive speed unless other USB devices are working the bus or the bus is busy doing something else. Since SATAIII determines the maximum possible speed of the SATA bus - roughly SATAIII is 6Gb/sec or 600 MB/sec - the drives are ALWAYS slower than the SATAIII bus. Always, no exceptions. USB is just adding another bridge bus between computer and the SATA bus, And that SATA bus has a SATA chip and a SATA drive. In the case of the two bay Burly, the simplest fastest possible connection is SATA from computer to drive. No bus conversion, which can add latency and collisions with other data traveling the same bus.
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricks View Post
    Oh, now I understand. You were making a comparison between the two.

    A spinning hard drive is capable of max 200 MB/sec. SSD is capable of 450-500MB/sec. This is on a SATAIII bus which spec says is 600 MB/sec but reality says is slower than that - maybe 500 MB/sec. Never seen any bus that actually passed data at the specification maximum speed.

    The Burly, attached to a SATAIII bus is fully capable of supporting that.

    A USB3.x (3.x = whatever generation) is a bridge between a SATA drive connected to a SATA chip and then to the USB bridge. That bridge is USB on one side and SATA on the other (older bridges were SATAII or SATAI). The USB3.x, as long as it is USB3.0 or later, is spec wise as fast or faster than a SATAIII drive. So it has no effect on the drive speed unless other USB devices are working the bus or the bus is busy doing something else. Since SATAIII determines the maximum possible speed of the SATA bus - roughly SATAIII is 6Gb/sec or 600 MB/sec - the drives are ALWAYS slower than the SATAIII bus. Always, no exceptions. USB is just adding another bridge bus between computer and the SATA bus, And that SATA bus has a SATA chip and a SATA drive. In the case of the two bay Burly, the simplest fastest possible connection is SATA from computer to drive. No bus conversion, which can add latency and collisions with other data traveling the same bus.

    Ok, so I need your card because the burly is using those odd cables - eSATA cables? and so that card has those fittings?

  15. #15
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    Nothing odd about an eSATA card, common as dirt for the last 16 years. I am guessing that your Burly is an eSATA model with two eSATA cables. If so, you need a PCIe card with at least a pair of eSATA ports.
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricks View Post
    Nothing odd about an eSATA card, common as dirt for the last 16 years. I am guessing that your Burly is an eSATA model with two eSATA cables. If so, you need a PCIe card with at least a pair of eSATA ports.
    Is that the card you were touting earlier? If not, what is such a card please?

  17. #17
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    Yes. The card I linked is an eSATA card. If your Burly is eSATA then that card will work with it.
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  18. #18
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    and these are the connectors we are talking about?

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  19. #19
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    That's not an eSATA connector. It's internal SATA. Only ones we ever sold were black or white.... and way back in 2003-2005, maybe optionally a couple years after that. They got replaced by eSATA in 2005 and as PCI cards came out with the eSATA connectors we got rid of the internal SATA connector used externally. There are no cards made to fit those for over 10 years, so you'd have to change cabling or find eSATA to SATA adapter cables. We haven't had adapter cables in 6 or 8 years.
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  20. #20
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    Here's the comparison - SATA Type A being internal SATA connectors which are still used for internal connections. The reason for a new eSATA connector was the Type A ones didn't last very well being pulled on and hanging a heavy cable off of.

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    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

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