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Thread: High Sierra

  1. #1
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    Rolleyes High Sierra

    Perhaps my search skills died, but I can't find anything about High Sierra on MacGurus forms.

    Well, I took the plunge and upgraded. Interesting. I use an external drive for all OS's and upgrades from Apple, and fool with them to see how they work, and whether I like them or can live with them. Well, this helped me eliminate 10.7, 10.8, 10.9, 10.10, and 10.11. None were good enough to switch from my trusty old Snow Leopard. Then came Sierra's turn. Tried that. Realized that I can live with it (perhaps even learn to like it), and kept upgrading till last 10.12.6. Then High Sierra with its new file system - APFS - was announced, and I figure I want the last Sierra with HFS+. Some extra drives were then configured to 10.12.6, while the test volume for new OS's remained in play. And that's where I upgraded to High Sierra (10.12.6 to 10.13).


    And, of course, ran into some problems. Turns out that many apps I use almost daily won't run. Ok, I knew that. But, some caused enugh problems to prevent boot, even in safe mode. Reintalling OS from Recovery didn't help. So, I had to search the offending files booting from a 10.12.6 drive. Trashed many files, including everything from Little Snitch, VMfusion, and SilicanImage. That fixed things, and now it's booting nicely. Reinstalled newest version of Little Snitch, and reactivated MSoffice2011, which inspite of Microsoft's warnings, still works great with High Sierra.

    The HD with HighSierra is an old fashioned SATA, external, connected via Firewire. I can't change this volume to APFS; system won't allow it. Do I have to? How can HighSierra operate on volume formatted HFS+ when it was designed for APSF??

    Life is never dull
    marrand

  2. #2
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    APSF is specifically and only for Flash drives. I was worried Apple would make it easy to install on anything, but I'm glad to hear they put a destination check in place. IMHO APSF is not really ready for prime time use, but I could be proven wrong... again.

    I haven't done any but the most simplistic touch on testing High Sierra. Not yet qualified to have an opinion on it.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  3. #3
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    I read someplace that APFS was meant for SSD's and such. But just couldn't believe it.
    Mine is on external old fashioned SATA and I can experiment with it; already learning that all my utilities sitting on High Sierra work nicely, but only on other HFS+ volumes in my MacPro.
    Actually, I like it. The boot is extra slow, but once there, it feels rather zippy. Internet browsing with Safari, Firefox and Chrome is a pleasure.
    When eventually I have it installed on SSD, I expect even faster performance.

  4. #4
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    I typically jump into the swamp with the alligators....but am waiting this time. Waiting for 10.13.2...or maybe later.

    Changing file systems is huge. I'm all for it, as HFS+ is old and creeky, especially for really large volumes. But make no mistake, this is as big (if not nearly as flashy) as changing from PPC to intel, or OS 9 to OS 10. Patience will likely pay off here, letting everything else catch up, and figuring out what old goodies I can live without.
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  5. #5
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    I've not been in a hurry either. I will end up having to update soon for testing, but I always wait a little to see what gets reports of breakage. There are some hardware shortcomings showing up already. And as always, for my work machines, I worry it will break something I really don't want to afford to update, like Photoshop or one of the video editing apps. So testing will happen before I go live.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  6. #6
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    Now testing my 2009 MBP with 8GB and a Samsung SSD, as of 10.13.2. All good so far, no hiccups or weirdness. Seems noticeably faster compared to 10.12 on HFS+. Very snappy.

    So far the only thing that has really surprised me is that ye olde repair permissions function seems to have been completely removed. We do now a have a method to reset user permissions....which is nice. And arguably more important. Except it is a bit wonky for the average user.

    I looked at a few of the third party tools that historically ran the permissions repair tool (running the existing Apple script/app, just using a third party GUI), and so far, all the free tools now have the permission repair functionality removed. It may really be gone.

    It will be interesting to see if anybody writes their own system permissions repair (reset) tool, and if anybody builds a GUI for the new user permissions reset from the link above.
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  7. #7
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    We've got all our machines on High Sierra now. Very stable, clean and fast. I really appreciate the new Safari that stops videos from auto starting. Man, is that NICE.

    I do dislike, intensely, Disk Utility. Nearly useless POS. For instance: bought a bunch of high quality thumb drives to send stuff for XMAS to relatives. They come pre-formatted in FAT32. Reformatting it for a Mac takes a couple passes since it always fails/errors out at least once. Another example, try formatting drives into a RAID, and then try breaking the RAID or reformatting any one of the drives. I usually end up doing a 'clean' in Windows command line.

    Pretty much everything else is cleaner though. Nice step up.

    Thanks Unc. I didn't notice the password utility change. I usually do all my password stuff in Terminal.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  8. #8
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    About this new file system change:

    Is this new file system only implemented on the boot drive (SSD) or everything else it touches? I have three other data drives connected to the Mac, and I am wondering if those file systems get changed also? Meaning that if ever I needed to use those drives or data with another operating system (i.e. let's say my Mac was down and I needed to work on another machine, or from another boot drive), would it be screwed up or is the new system just the method used for organizing the files?

    And, if ever I had to roll back to Sierra, would it all have to be reinstalled?

    Many of the data folders on these other drives are symlinked to the SSD boot for storage reasons as they are large folders which are "expected" to be located on my boot drive (SSD) but I don't want them there. Do these links stay intact or will the new file system not know how to recognize them?

    Rick, when you say pretty much everything else is cleaner, could you elaborate?

    Any other cautions?

    Thank you!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by macmac View Post
    About this new file system change:

    Is this new file system only implemented on the boot drive (SSD) or everything else it touches? I have three other data drives connected to the Mac, and I am wondering if those file systems get changed also? Meaning that if ever I needed to use those drives or data with another operating system (i.e. let's say my Mac was down and I needed to work on another machine, or from another boot drive), would it be screwed up or is the new system just the method used for organizing the files?

    And, if ever I had to roll back to Sierra, would it all have to be reinstalled?

    Many of the data folders on these other drives are symlinked to the SSD boot for storage reasons as they are large folders which are "expected" to be located on my boot drive (SSD) but I don't want them there. Do these links stay intact or will the new file system not know how to recognize them?

    Rick, when you say pretty much everything else is cleaner, could you elaborate?

    Any other cautions?

    Thank you!

    As far as I know, only the boot SSD.

    Yes, you can use APFS for externals, but even if they are SSD, I tend to want to stay with some other format so I can have maximum flexibility when using with other machines.

    Have not tested sym links...can't say. Would expect them to work. If not, a small task to create new ones.

    Rolling back to an old OS: Yes, you would have to erase and reformat back to HFS+. But, to be fair, most OS rollbacks would entail restoring an existing backup/image....and that typically requires nuking and paving anyway.
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  10. #10
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    BTW, just for fun, today I formatted a 2TB Seagate drive in APFS. Speed testing showed less than 40 MB/sec. Reformat HFS+ and it went back to 180+ MB/sec.


    R
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

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