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Thread: Cuda

  1. #41
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    The Western Digital 40 GB hard drive that was installed for me has on the label I D E.

    Readily admit here that i really don't know what that means. Obviously the installer SCSI'ed that drive because both the 2 GB and the 40 GB were working.
    The 2 GB Apple drive had OS 9 and the 40 GB had OS X.

    Well that would be great news here if that Apple 2 GB drive was alive and only needed some kind of poke to wake it up.
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  2. #42
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    Default SCSI, ATA, SATA, SSD Are the type of drive Apple's used over time

    Okay we'll go oldest type drive to newest. ATA and PATA are the same. All of the different drive type serve as an interface standard for the connection of storage devices such as hard disks.

    SCSI, The oldest style of common hard drives. Expensive now.
    SCSI
    SCSI was also a way to add several peripheral devices to personal computers. Subsequently, IDE drives (ATA) became highly reliable...
    PATA = Parallel ATA or commonly referred to as ATA the drives most newer computers used until recent few years now it's SATA
    (Parallel ATA) The original "integrated drive electronics" (IDE) technology that transferred data from the hard disk over a parallel data channel to the motherboard. After Serial ATA (SATA) drives were introduced, the PATA term was coined to refer to IDE drives.
    The IDE and ATA drives are much the same.

    SATA - The drive used in most all newest computers now.
    Serial ATA (SATA) is a computer bus interface that connects host bus adapters to mass storage devices such as hard disk drives and optical drives.
    This is the type of drive in newer computers.

    SSD = Solid State Drive
    A storage device containing nonvolatile flash memory, used in place of a hard disk because of its much greater speed.
    and small space. People are using these now if they need speed they are much faster and it stores a lot of data in a small area in your computer - not like a big ol' hard drive.

    Your 8500 can only read or understand what is on a properly formatted SCSI drive. It can not read, understand or talk with a IDE, ATA, SATA, or SSD hard drive unless you have a PCI Host controller with a PATA interface.

    You must use a SCSI drive in your 8500. It will not function with the others. How or what was the 40 GB doing? Data? An OS? I can't believe it even fit the same ribbon or connector. I thought SCSI was 50 pin and IDE/SATA 68 pin drives and connections you could put an adapter and make it fit.

    Maybe I'm really forgetting something. Would not be the first... someone will point out any wrong info. This is what I remember.

    If you put a PCI Card that supports ATA hard drives in a PCI slot I believe then you could run an external ATA drive or several. But you need a PCI Host controller and and external case and hard drive.

    Does that help some? Keep em coming...

  3. #43
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    How or what was the 40 GB doing? Data? An OS?
    The 40 GB had OS X.
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  4. #44
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    Did the 40 GB boot and was running good?

    Halp, someone tell me what'S going on. How does the 8500 read the IDE drive?

    Does the 40GB connect to a PCI Card or something from the mobo?

  5. #45
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    Yes indeed the 40 GB booted and was working great.

    As I noted previously i used XpostFacto bought at Other World Computing ( http://eshop.macsales.com/osxcenter/xpostfacto/ ) that makes it possible to install OS X on this 8500/Sonnet G4.

    I installed Tiger on to the 40 GB hard drive and OS 9 on the Apple 2 GB.

    XpostFacto has a fancy startup manager that allows you to boot into either drive you want.

    It worked like a charm albeit web surfing was slllloooowwww and painful.

    Midi/audio/Video worked perfectly since the 8500 was built for that type of work and had some extra ordinary features for its day.
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  6. #46
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    Midi/audio/Video worked perfectly since the 8500 was built for that type of work and had some extra ordinary features for its day.
    I do remember it and remember it was a fun one to upgrade and had some nice and useful audio as you mention.

    I understand the XpostFacto and it's uses for installing OSX. It's just the IDE issue your sure it's not a SCSI or have an adapter between the hard drive and connector?

    I'm still confused as it's booting to an IDE drive and I did not think it could. Damien, Rick, Unc, yeungfeng or ol' friend Brane or someone should be around to help me out here...

    I better go read.

  7. #47
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    Randy is right, there is no built in ATA bus in an 8500. Only way you can run ATA drives, that I know of, is to install an ATA PCI card.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  8. #48
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    It's just the IDE issue your sure it's not a SCSI or have an adapter between the hard drive and connector?

    I'm still confused as it's booting to an IDE drive and I did not think it could
    That's what the label sezs on that Western Digital WD400 40 GB drive: I D E 40 GB.

    That drive was installed for me because I dont' have a clue about SCSI connection requirements.

    There is a ribbon cable and power cable plugged into that drive. That ribbon cable looks like the ribbon cables plugged into the CD burner, floppy drive and apple's 2 GB drive.
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  9. #49
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    What is on your small 2GB hard drive??

    Did you have a OS 8 or OS 9 install disk? if yes...

    I'd pull the WD 40 GB out of the computer and boot from an install disk. If you do not have anything you "can't live without" then erase the 2GB and put a brand new system on it. This will make finding a problem easier.

    Even if you can't erase the 2GB because of things you need music, photos, etc.

    Get rid of the WD 40GB for now and see if you can boot to a OS 8 or 9 install disk. Can you get the CD/DVD burner to open then put the CD/DVD install disk into the it and on startup or restart hold the "c" key down until it boots to the install Disk it might take a while so keep holding the "c" key.

    Let us know what happens.

  10. #50
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    Did you have a OS 8 or OS 9 install disk? if yes...
    Yes, it had OS 9.

    There is nothing on either hard drives that are must haves only midi/audio programs. The projects they created were saved to external firewire hard drives which is standard practice for me. The programs seem to breath and run better when the audio/midi source data is on another hard drive. Or that's what i believe: no scientific proof.

    The machine as it stands now will start up with an blank screen.

    Then i have to use the floppy emergency disk ( Apple's Disk Tool 2/OS 8 ) to boot up with its own desk top which shows I have that second 40 GB hard drive but no 2 GB hard drive shows.

    The last time i tried to boot from an install CD it would not.

    If i unplug the power and SCSI ribbon from the the second hard ( the 40 GB WesternDigital ) am i OK? or is there some SCSI termination that may fry the machine?

    Thanks for standing by and helping me because i am

    Waiting for your response and then it's going to take a wee bit of time to reassemble the machine plus gotto go out to help my daughter with a project.
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  11. #51
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    It won't, can't fry anything. Turn the computer power off. Take the WD 40GB out of the mix.

    Do you have a CD/DVD or just the little floppy?

  12. #52
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    Do you have a CD/DVD or just the little floppy?
    It has both:

    Yamaha 8/4/24 CD RW burner ( it can't do DVD )
    Apple Floppy

    I"m going to "unplug" the WD 40GB drive but leave it in it's bay. That should be OK ?
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  13. #53
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    I"m going to "unplug" the WD 40GB drive but leave it in it's bay. That should be OK ?
    Yes that will be fine.

    The projects they created were saved to external firewire hard drives which is standard practice for me.
    Do you have some type of external drives connected to this then... how are they connected?

    Do you have a CD/DVD Install disk to boot from other than the small floppy?

    I don't remember how that darn little floppy works.

  14. #54
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    Do you have some type of external drives connected to this then... how are they connected?
    There is no external firewire drives connected now.

    I'm going to try to connect an external firewire drive that has OS 9 ( not the classic nine ) to see what happens. However I have to create one exclusively for this problem first on my Performa or my G4.

    Actually never thought of doing that until you prompted my mind with your question.

    Do you have a CD/DVD Install disk to boot from other than the small floppy?

    I don't remember how that darn little floppy works.
    Yes, I have several CD install disks OS 8x and also 9x . ( x means don't know exactly at the time of this post and too lazy at this time to go down to the basement recording studio to check them out now )

    The floppy disk has about 1.4 MB room so the emergency floppy start up has a very small amount of OS data only enough to startup.


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  15. #55
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    Default If you can...

    Get a CD/DVD Install disk into the 8500's optical or CD/DVD Drive and put the install CD/DVD in it. I'd use 9.x if possible.

    Then while holding your "c" key on the keyboard push start or restart if already and keep it down for what seems like days... until something boots up. and it should boot to the OS 9.x CD/DVD install CD/DVD. From here you can use Disk Utility from the menu or maybe it was called "First Aid" back then but you can do some disk checking or repairing, erasing etc.

    I'd verify the drive, use the repair feature on it and if nothing was all that important start out with a new clean fresh OS install.

    Let me know what happens or where your at... I'll be here about an hour longer and back later tonight.

    Good luck,

  16. #56
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    You need to figure out what is connected to what.

    There is no ATA bus built into the 8500 logic board. So the only way to hook up an ATA drive is using an ATA PCI card. ATA drives have different cables and different connectors - Randy is right - the SCSi connector is a 50 pin while the ATA connector is 40 pin. Start tracing ribbon cables, see where they lead.
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  17. #57
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    Default Agree with Rick you have too many variables here

    You talk about the 2GB SCSI Drive and that makes sense. The stock drive for that vintage.

    The WD 40GB IDE - It can't connect to the same ribbon as the 2GB but is it? Are they on the same ribbon? Where does the "thin wide wire" not the power wires they are 4 wires with white molex connector. The other one follow it and where does it go? The mobo? or to a PCI Card in a slot?

    You mention FW Backups - The 8500 does not have FW. So the only way to connect FW external drive/s would be with a PCI Card that has FW ports on it. Do you have a FW PCI card? Where do the FW wires come from to connect to what you call your external FW drives or the drives you back up to - how, where does the HD connect to your computer?

    What or how many PCI slots are being used? How many empty? What is in the used ones. You'd have a Graphics card using one slot.

    If I were you I'd pull every hard drive except 2GB stock drive and all your PCI Cards except the graphics.

    Then were only working with 1 hard drive so there's little to nothing to conflict. Then try booting like I described with a CD/DVD if you see the 2GB Drive in First Aid or Disk Utility run the repair functions... it can't hurt now. Then erase, reinstall the OS to the 2GB drive.

    You think it's dead and it might be. I think it's fine and just not being read by your computer.

    Was this 2GB the original drive? or was it taken from another computer and put in the 8500? Really check this... so is the 2GB hard drive connected on or at the lat spot on the SCSI ribbon? Where does this ribbon connect? and is it the only hard drive connected to this ribbon or wire - a bunch of little wires that make one thin but wide wire about 1 inches wide?

    I hope I wrote this out where it makes sense. I'll be gone but will check back tonight and see where your at.

    A photo of the back of your 8500 might help.

  18. #58
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    Have not done anything yet however want to leave this url: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...8349&CatId=135
    Could that drive be plugged in/installed ready to go if need be ?

    OR this one http://www.redrocktech.com/products/...h/35shs-sn-hdd
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Magoo View Post
    Have not done anything yet however want to leave this url: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...8349&CatId=135
    Could that drive be plugged in/installed ready to go if need be ?
    No, wrong type of scsi. You would need to add a Pci card to make this work

    That one looks like it might work. Though I have some reservations... like you might not want to get the terabyte drive Might be some compatibility issues with a drive that big..(scsi shouldn't have any size limits but I am just being careful here) My second issue is with their claim of scsi ID's 0-15 .. Scsi 50 pin narrow SE only supports scsi ID's 0-7 if I remember correctly
    Damien,

  20. #60
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    You would need to add a Pci card to make this work
    What card exactly and wear would i buy that card ?

    Oh dear, can't even spell correctly: time to go to bed here.
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