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Thread: Cuda

  1. #21
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    Damien, now look what you did.

    So would CUDA make it so the 8500 would not boot using the Sonnet G4 processor?

  2. #22
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    So would CUDA make it so the 8500 would not boot using the Sonnet G4 processor?
    I say yes as it does with others. My Giga G4 CPU upgrade on a 7500 needed that done. You'll need to put back an original CPU and install firmware and proceed with instructions assuming...

    Check the install instructions and see if it needs a firmware change first to run the Sonnet if you have the instructions check or Google would have it. They were all a little different.

    You also need a hard drive for your SCSI ribbon right? It can be larger than 2GB but it might have a top end size I can't remember. I think some would not boot with a hard drive larger than 6GB on some of the vintage equipment.- maybe

  3. #23
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    If I am not mistaken the G4 startup is written into NVRAM. Been a long time, but I think you are right, reset the CUDA and lose the G4.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  4. #24
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    yeungfeng It seems we were both right and both wrong at the same time.

    Ricks You are getting sleepy... sleepy
    Damien,

  5. #25
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    What a hoot. It is totally better than being wrong. No red face, maybe just a little pink. Once again it shows that, five heads are better than one.

    Yup, looking at that face, more sleep

  6. #26
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    Who can sleep when Damien is around? That’s how he got the last one….
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwm View Post
    You'll need to put back an original CPU and install firmware and proceed with instructions assuming...
    I can put back the original CPU however the problem right now is that when I fire up there is NO desktop. Without a desktop I can't run a CD installers or even floppy installers since they do not show up on the desktop.

    When I use my Mac OS 8 Disk Tools 2 ( emergency startup floppy ) that Apple provided with this computer I do have a desktop that shows me the second internal hard drive and the floppy as a "hard drive" . The original hard drive is not showing up which to me proves it's dead.

    This emergency floppy startup does not allow for switching to re- startup from the second hard drive. It only allows you to restart from the floppy or quit period.

    Therefore I am working on creating my own emergency CD startup that would hopefully allow me to switch the restart to the second internal hard drive.
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  8. #28
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    Once a CUDA reset is done, if I remember correctly, startup is asigned to SCSI ID0 - as in ID ‘zero’.

    To get this computer pointed at the other drive I would remove the failed SCSI drive entirely and then remove any SCSI ID jumpers from the SCSI ID pins on the second drive, thus making it ID0. By default any drive that is SCSI ID 0 will be the boot drive looked at first during startup.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricks View Post
    Once a CUDA reset is done, if I remember correctly, startup is asigned to SCSI ID0 - as in ID ‘zero’.

    To get this computer pointed at the other drive I would remove the failed SCSI drive entirely and then remove any SCSI ID jumpers from the SCSI ID pins on the second drive, thus making it ID0. By default any drive that is SCSI ID 0 will be the boot drive looked at first during startup.

    Rick
    Thanks Rick.

    MR MAGOO needs a road map ( pictures would be nice ) to do that. He knows how to take the case cover off and place it back on the 8500, and how to remove/install processor card and firewire, usb cards. After that what does he do without pulling the wrong cables ?
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  10. #30
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    I did a search for Quantum fireball SCSI jumper and this came up.

    Jumpers are little connections on the hard drive that determine the number. If you've done all the other things, you can remove a hard drive. There should only be a couple of wires. The ribbon and the power wire.

  11. #31
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    Taking the cover off there is (looking from top down facing the front of the computer ) CD/CD RW drive, floppy drive, Drive one and drive two.

    Drive one seems to be the so called second drive that was installed for me. I can read WD400 on the label.

    Drive two has the Apple LOGO and as best as I make out on the label as I can see it is a Seagate HD.

    Would have to dismantle to get at both drives.

    Now I'm trying to figure out how to get at those drives.

    It seems that MR MAGOO may have to remove the logic board which is something we had to do to install RAM.

    Any pictures how to get at those drives would help.

    Thanks again for your interest and help.
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  12. #32
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    I'm writing something up now and finding some photo's that will hopefully help you understand better. I'm slow give me a hour or so...

    Try searching Google images for "Illustration of SCSI TERMINATION" or mobo motherboard 8500, SCSI connector, 8500 Motherboard ribbon. I see some photo's that might help.

    Search regular Google 8500 take apart, installing PCI cards in 8500 you'll find some help or direction in there.

    Back to writing...

  13. #33
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    Default I hope this is not like throwing gas on a fire. ID Termination

    Mr. Magoo,

    This was one of the complicated concepts I remember trying to understand 12 years ago. After you get it ... it's really not so hard. It's been a long time and probably will forget a few things and make a mistake but I'll try to explain a few things better.

    Someone please edit, correct or point out any mistakes.

    A device is any thing like a hard drive, a cd/dvd drive, maybe a printer, a second hard drive etc. A hard drive will have some jumper pins to set it's ID. So if it's the last device the jumper pins on that drive need to be set to "0". You can find a diagram of the jumpers or referred to as jumper block at the Manufacture like Seagate or Western Digital etc just search your hard drive make/model you will find it. They'll show how to set the ID and turn termination on or off.

    When I say ribbon I am referring to the "wide cable with many smaller wires" it has a connection at the end usually a hard drive and the ribbon will usually have a second connector between the end and where it connects to the computer itself. It should have a spot on the end for a device and usually another on the same ribbon. This ribbon carries data back and forth between a device and the computer. Each device must have it's own ID so the computer can find or identify this. The computer will look for an ID to each device you have = (a number between 0 - 7) can't be duplicated. That happens a lot when taking a drive from another computer -- you need to check it's ID setting.

    The last device on the ribbon must be "termination on" and no other device can have termination on or enabled.
    I think the computer assigns the last spot on the ribbon for ID 0. The optical drive or CD/DVD can be on a different ribbon. It also is usually assigned SCSI ID 3 if I remember.

    So a second hard drive must have a SCSI ID different than the current hard drive and the CD/DVD. You can't use the same ID twice.

    The SCSI ID. Each device must have a different ID
    The red lines show a SCSI connector and where it connects to the mobo at first spot.
    mobo = Motherboard
    The ribbon or SCSI Bus ----> The black straight line

    Computer
    mobo-------------------- Second connector----------------------------------The end connector a HD.
    |___________________|_____________________________|

    Your computer will have two ribbons or SCSI Busses and they can't conflict. The end needs terminated but you can't have the same ID on both ribbons

    Okay, I've lost what little thoughts I had... I'll post this but keep asking questions. Were going to get this. I'll post a few random photo's that might help.

  14. #34
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    Doesn’t matter where on the cable a given number device is. Device with ID #0 can be in the middle or on the end, doesn’t matter.

    #7 is typically reserved for the host - meaning the computer end.

    #3 is usually used for the optical drive.


    To set a device to 0 you just remove ALL the jumpers from the ID pins on the drive.

    If there is not a physical terminator on the end of the cable, then the last device must be set to termination on, usually by virtue of a jumper.

    Do not set Termination Power On with a jumper - the host bus supplies plenty on a Mac.


    It may be that your bus problem is simply that someone added a drive that has the same ID as the other drive. If they are both 0 then only one will show up and which one can be random.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  15. #35
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    There is a key command that tells old macs which scsi ID you want to boot from for example if the drive you want to boot from is ID5, if I remember right, you would hold down

    command/option/shift/5 at boot and keep holding them until you get the Mac Smiley face

    I used to love me some scsi back in the day
    Damien,

  16. #36
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    HELP:

    As a test only i can remove the CD burner, the floppy and the second hard drive which is a Western Digital WD400, I D E 40 GB apparently built Aug 10, 2003.

    However,

    I can't remove the original Apple hard drive. Using the same procedure as outlined in a 8500 "Take Apart" instruction PDF : " Press down the retaining clip beneath the front of the hard drive and slide the hard drive forward to remove it from the computer." That was the same procedure I used on the other three devices and that worked. Not for the Apple Drive.

    The drive can be moved about 1/2 inch and no more. It seems as though there is something holding it locked or jammed in place.

    Help please.
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  17. #37
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    Where is the drive you can'y get out? If it's the last drive on the ribbon it's a good place to start.

    Is this your original hard drive? Do you have any OS on it" OS 8 or 9.x -?

    I don't think you needed to disconnect CD/DVD but it can't hurt either. We may need it later to boot to an install disk.

    Starting with 1 hard drive in one location will be easier to trouble shoot. Hopefully it's the last drive on the ribbon.

    Keep em coming... I'm to close to home and my computer for now...
    Last edited by rwm; 05-23-2014 at 02:38 PM.

  18. #38
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    ‘Removing’ a drive = ‘disonnecting’ a drive. If yo unplug its cables it is removed.

    I do not remember take apart on the 8500…… damn it, the brain is a terrible thing to waste.
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  19. #39
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    rwm

    I noted in my post a couple of miles up:


    Taking the cover off there is (looking from top down facing the front of the computer ) CD/CD RW drive, floppy drive, Drive one and drive two.

    Drive one seems to be the so called second drive that was installed for me. I can read WD400 on the label.

    Drive two has the Apple LOGO and as best as I make out on the label as I can see it is a Seagate HD.

    I did not fully remove the CD/CD RW drive, floppy drive, or the Western Digital drive ( 40 GB ) i was only testing to see how and those were very very easy to remove.

    But the original Apple drive ( 2 GB ) being the at the very bottom ( looking down ) is very very hard to move out.

    It's a Seagate model ST32151N with an Apple logo and it's 2 GB. That drive is dead.

    Would it be possible to replace it with and I D E type of drive like the Western Digital drive ( 40 GB ) that was installed for me a long time ago and it was my second drive that had OS X by using XPost to trick the 8500 into running OS X.
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  20. #40
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    Your computer can not read an IDE ATA drive it must be a SCSI hard drive. Also some of the older computers could not read hard drives larger 6GB but I can't remember. I'll search around if no one else posts it here. My first quick search did not find help.

    I think people could get around it by partitioning a 5.8GB partition first. - it fooled the computer into the drive size. Also by using a PCI Card you can connect multiple and larger drives externally.

    Just because you can't see it does not mean it's dead. -

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