2006 macpro

[riverrunner]

I have a macpro 1.1 2.66 Ghz, with 16 gigs ram, ati 5770, 250g 500gig hd and a 125 ssd

I just bought a 2.3 macbook pro and dropped in 16 gig ram and a Momentus XT Solid State Hybrid Hard Disk Drive 750 gig 7200 rpm that has a 8 gig sad

It makes my macpro look real slow even when I run on the sad, that being the situation, how can I speed up my macro?

Thanks Gary

[ricks]

The biggest question is what part of the computer is slow?

SSDs do a lot less to speed up a computer than you would think. If what is stored on the SSD is the operating system and applications, then it boots faster, then it pretty much doesn't do much.

Where the new MBP beats up on the MacPro is CPU performance. Newer architecture runs in 64 bit kernel, has a lot more efficient CPUs, uses RAM better.

Where the MacPro will excel over the MBP is in data IO. With multiple hard drive slots and PCIe slots to add buses, the MacPro can move a lot more data than the MBP can - but has to be configured to utilize those multiple ports and slots to gain that advantage.

Leads to the question: what types of processes are you doing that the MacPro is slower than the MBP? Photos? Video? Processing? Everything? (have to define everything though)

[riverrunner]

Thanks for the response mate, I use photoshop, after effects. premiere pro, playback pro and asst'd video LED wall systems.

The old girl is like the tortoise in the tortoise and the hare in comparison, it starts from opening to rendering.
Yep all the apps are on the ssd! Do you think changing the cpu will turn her into road runner, you know, beep beep or do you think she needs a major overhaul?

[ricks]

Next should look at the photo data storage. How old is the drive(s) - you might list model number for the drives. And how full are they.

This surely sounds like the problem is accessing your data more than processing it. MacPros always have, from Apple, a problem with getting the data to RAM fast enough. It takes work to set it up so data access IO is efficient and speedy. Doesn't matter how fast the processors are if the drives can't feed them fast enough. Slow data access = idle time on the processors.

Rick

[riverrunner]

Hey, good morning, looks like another hot and steamy one.

I keep all pics, vids and music on separate drives,


Capacity: 120.03 GB (120,034,123,776 bytes)
Model: Mercury EXTREME Pro 6G SSD
Revision: 311ABBF0
WDC WD2500JS-41SGB0:

Capacity: 250.06 GB (250,059,350,016 bytes)
Model: WDC WD2500JS-41SGB0
ST3500641AS P:

Capacity: 500.11 GB (500,107,862,016 bytes)
Model: ST3500641AS P

Then external drives

FreeAgent GoFlex:

Capacity: 1 TB (1,000,204,885,504 bytes)
Removable Media: Yes
Detachable Drive: Yes
BSD Name: disk4
Product ID: 0x5021
Vendor ID: 0x0bc2 (Seagate LLC)
FreeAgent Go :

Capacity: 500.11 GB (500,107,860,992 bytes)
Removable Media: Yes
Detachable Drive: Yes
BSD Name: disk3
Product ID: 0x2101
Vendor ID: 0x0bc2 (Seagat

FANTOM DRIVE :

Capacity: 1 TB (1,000,204,886,016 bytes)
Removable Media: Yes
Detachable Drive: Yes
BSD Name: disk6
Product ID: 0x1340
Vendor ID: 0x13fd (Initio Corporation)
Version: 2.10

So, what do ya think doc?

Gary


There's a lot of people out there who are going through hard times, and they feel alone. They feel like nobody is there. So, let's make sure there is money to pay us (july 2012) and take this vacation on the road, and let the people work it out for themselves

Rep.John Ima Boner

[ricks]

This is going to be brutal, facts speak. Please don't take it personally, because the goal is to point out where the slow downs are.


A couple of those drives are REALLY going to be slow, just by their age. The Western Digital is pretty ancient stuff. Just knowing how old the drive is makes me feel old. Even if mostly empty it will be under 45 MB/sec if I remember right.

The Seagate ST3500641AS is Seagate's first model of SATA drive. The way they built that was based on what was at the time their current ATA drive with a Marvell SATA converter chip soldered onto its control board. It is going to be a 50-55 MB/sec drive empty.

If those drives are over half full they are going to be 1/3 to 1/2 slower even than that and are going to eat your computer performance. Frankly they are a big chunk of your problem. Major improvement to replace them with current model drives.

Now the externals. The drives in them are probably pretty decent performance wise if they are fairly recent - although no way for me to know without knowing date of manufacture and what bridge is in the enclosures. Big question is what bus are they using to connect to your MacPro? If USB2.0, then you are getting at best 30MB/sec through a USB2.0 bus. If Firewire it will be a little better.


I think the first thing you should do is list how full the drives are. Just a percentage is good. (Or stating something like 500GB drive, 340 GB on it) Keep it simple.

Second is put a number to how fast each drive is. Use AJA Speed Test. Simple and free and will give a reasonably accurate number on how much data can flow into and out of each drive. Set Speed Test to 2 GB transfer, ignore frame size, select each drive and get a read + write number for it..


Today's Seagate 7200.14 Barracuda is good for 180 MB/sec when empty. My guess is you are 'enjoying' closer to 20 to 40 MB/sec on most of your data accesses. Your MacPro is idling along waiting for data most of the time.

Rick

[riverrunner]

you're correct all my internals are running approx write 25/27 and read 35/37 my original internal hd (500gig) is running 54 and 58. my ssd is 233 - 237.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I need a new internal or external hd of at least 1-2 tb and, use it to store and work off all new jobs. To take my old stuff and use them for storage of stuff that I might only want to refer back to.

Also, they are usb2 connections. None of the drives are anywhere near half full, so it's just gonna get worse. the 500gig external came from my new macbook pro so, that's okay as it has a usb3 connector

Wat do you suggest?

[ricks]

Looks like you know just what needs doing.

The more data accesses you have the more benefit there is to either separating different data onto separate drives, or onto a fast RAID. Fast is defined by you. Or at least how much you want to spend on it.

If a single fast drive for your data isn't fast enough, RAID0 a couple of them. Don't forget that for every GB of data storage you need a reliable GB of backup.

Don't count on 6 year old hard drives! They are ready for retirement. I would hesitate to redefine their purpose at this point.

[riverrunner]

Well Rick you have really been there for me mate, that being the case which of your drives would you suggest in both internal and external-

[rwm]

This is a picture perfect Thread. Nice work to you both.

[ricks]

7200.14 Seagate drive kicks serious butt. They are 180 MB/sec when empty. Amazing drive. Today I would use em for everything, RAID or non RAID.

[riverrunner]

Great but, how about the 2tb, also the cpu is there a relatively inexpensive way of upgrading or using my ssd for apps and run the projects directly off the seagate.

as far as a 2.5 goes what would you recommend.I have a case to place it in if need be.

Have a good day mate

[ricks]

Seagate .14s come is 1TB, 2TB, 3TB and 4TB. No problem fitting one to the need. Only difference between the drives is the number of platters.

You have room for 4 drives internally on the MacPro. Unless you install a eSATA card your external performance is not as good as what you get from drives installed internally.

In my opinion, the only way to truly benefit from SSD speed is if the work files are actually on the SSD. I would certainly advise you run some tests. Copy your OS to a spinning drive and erase the SSD and stick some data on it to work on. I don't believe you can financially justify putting enough SSD space in to maintain your database on SSD as we can get more speed with a 2 or more drive spinning disk RAID0 with a whole lot less expense. But the proof is in the pudding, run a few tests and see what it does to your process.

Testing is the way to tell. No one else knows how you run your computer. Successfully speeding it up has got to be specific to your needs. Sure, you can use the shotgun method: if you spend enough on each and every component you will probably achieve more speed without ever knowing which components gave you what performance gains. Along with that is which components didn't give you much if any benefits.

2.5 inch drives that are pulled from inside your laptop make good little portable backup drives. DO not expect much performance from them - certainly not in comparison to a 3.5 inch drive. Typical 2.5 inch current drive is mechanically capable of between 80 and 100 MB/sec. Pretty much Firewire speed. When you pick buses to attach your external drives you want to match the drive capability, the computer buses and the needs. I would not use a small 2.5 inch drive as a main repository or working data. I would use it as a way of backing up my mobile data.

Bus capability - computer end:

USB2 = max 30-35 MB/sec

USB3 = max 450 MB/sec

FW 400 = max 45 MB/sec (usually 40 is closer)

FW 800 = max 100 MB/sec (usually 80-82 MB/sec)

SATAII = Max 240 MB/sec (internal bus or eSATA with SSD or multiple drives on a port multiplier - even though bus is spec'd at 300, actual maximum speed is always under 240MB/sec)

SATAIII = Max around 450 MB/sec depending on chipset (internal bus or eSATA with SSD - 240 MB/sec w/multiple drives on a port multiplier since all port multipliers are still SATAII - someday we should have port multiplier chipsets that are SATAIII and we hopefully can double the port multiplier performance)


Speed of a RAID0 with 2 current Seagate drives on the internal SATAII bus in your MacPro would be over 300 MB/sec. Cost comparison: pick a pair of 1 TB drives, around $230 for a 2TB volume. It costs (quite literally) 10 times that for a 1TB SSD. And that SSD would be limited to a single SATAII connection, or about 230 MB/sec unless you also add a SATAIII or 6Gb/sec SAS PCIe host card to run the SSD off of.

I am a fan of RAID0 to accelerate your database. Just like when using a single drive, with a RAID0 you must have a reliable backup. If I had a 2 drive/2TB RAID0 for the data, I would also have a single 2TB backup drive to protect my data. If I have a 2 TB single data drive, I would still have an identical 2TB backup drive. (alternatively, you can have a backup drive do multiple tasks - like using a 3TB for the backup drive - 2TB partition to backup the data and a 1TB partition to backup your boot drive. Only time I use partitions is with the inner slower partition used just for backup)

You can swap out the CPUs on your MacPro. I evaluated that and chose not to since I would also want to update graphics card. Also, the biggest difference in architecture from newer MacPro4,1 and newer is that your MacPro1,1 can only boot to a 32 bit kernel. And that means that you can only give an application 3 GB of memory. We took our MacPro1,1 and made it our server. Works perfectly for that. Last I checked it was about $600-$700 to swap out older processors for more current ones. That is about what the MacPro1,1 is worth. Here's a little thread to give you an idea.


Rick

[riverrunner]

Thanks Rick, I really appreciate your feedback and also I ordered a couple of ST1000DM003 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 1 TB SATAIII 32MB 7200 RPM
from you guys

All the best mate

Gary

[ricks]

Thanks for the order. I am only in the office for a few minutes each night. It is wheat harvest time here and I split for a few weeks to drive a combine. Sorry I wasn't here when you sent the email. Glad you got taken care of.

Rick
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