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Thread: Seagate ST11200N SCSI not supported

  1. #1
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    Default Seagate ST11200N SCSI not supported

    Hello,

    We have an old PowerMac 7300/I80 with a dead HD. I just found a rebuilt HD (see title) for a few $ and I'm trying to install it in the computer. SCSI ID is 0 (just like the old one) and terminator power is from drive (just like the old one). Here is the chain:

    SCSI chain 0 MB===>CD(ID3)===>SEAGATE(ID0) with Term.

    When booting with an OS CD, the drive does not mount on desktop. In Disk Utilities, the drive is listed as "not supported". In First Aid, it is not there. I tried OS 8.0, 8.6 and 9.0 and got the same result.

    Does anyone have any idea ?

    Thanks you very much.

    By the way, just in case someone asks:
    We still have here an old management system on OS 9 (with Filemaker Pro) that runs only on OS Classic. Don't worry, we are in the process of upgrading it on new computers and new software. Since the programming and testing process is quite long, the old macs are falling down one after another and we try to stay alive with what we still have that can run OS classic.

  2. #2
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    Default Welcome to Guru's

    Sorry your post got hung up a bit. Someone will or myself will be back and help you.

  3. #3
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    Default

    First off, your drive must be 'Terminated'. Termination Power is not the same as Termination.

    Termination power is supplied by the host bus and is not necessary to be supplied by a drive unless the number of drives on the bus is getting large enough that power levels drop. What your replacement drive must have, if it is the last device on the SCSI chain, is Termination. Termination Power is not only unnecessary but may cause problems.

    That is the first thing to establish. Un-jumper Term Power and make sure Termination is jumpered to on.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  4. #4
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    Default

    Hello Ricks,
    First, I'm new to SCSI and learning a lot. The old HD I removed was a Quantum Fireball FBTMS655-0435, Part#2110S. There doesn't seem to be any termination on this drive or connected anywhere. So first I only replaced the old one with the new one.

    I tried removing term power from both CD-ROM and HD. No success.
    Well, I think I tried every jumper combination you can think of....

    The new drive has 3 I/O terminators connected in sockets welded on the HD drive board. I removed them and tried another set of tests. Nothing so far.

    I also tried CD-ROM on bus 0 (Fast SCSI) and HD on bus 1 (STD SCSI). Tested a few things and still at the same point.

    Thanks again.

  5. #5
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    Default ID and termination

    This was a very confusing thing or concept for me to understand. Thanks to people like Rick and many others I understand it but have a tough time explaining it. I do have some good notes and can find old threads to help.

    Take a peek in these... I'll have more time later. http://www.macgurus.com/forums/searc...d=375016&pp=25

  6. #6
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    Default Notes that might help

    Post back your questions...

    Termination:
    1: All SCSI chains MUST end on either a terminator or a terminated device.
    2: No device other than the end device can have termination enabled.
    3: No device should have termination power jumpers installed.
    4: If you have an 80 to 50 pin non-termination capable adapter that drive MUST NOT be on the end of a SCSI chain since it cannot terminate the chain.
    Info in this thread.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Have a look at this



    These are your drives jumper boards, on the ID boards you want no jumpers

    on the J2 board where termination is dealt with you want 'position A' and that's the only termination jumper that should be installed

    You want to make sure your scsi terminators are installed on the drive



    Damien,

  8. #8
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    Thumbs up Nice job

    Thanks Damien, my head has been very pre occupied the past days and I am probably confusing MrMartin.

  9. #9
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    Default

    Never fear my head is always empty... err I mean clear!

    /scsi idiot savant
    Damien,

  10. #10
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    Default

    forgot to mention that the cd drive should be ID 3 and have no term power jumper installed
    Damien,

  11. #11
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    on the landline, Mr. Smith
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    Default

    .......if it turns out to be a bad drive (doubtful, you guys are on target), I have spare old known good SCSI drives hanging out.
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  12. #12
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    Default

    Hello everyone,

    Lets start with rvm:
    1: All SCSI chains MUST end on either a terminator or a terminated device.
    I knew that already.

    2: No device other than the end device can have termination enabled.
    I knew that already.

    3: No device should have termination power jumpers installed.
    I tought so but when I opened the computer case, both CD-ROM and HDD had termination power jumpers installed....and it has been working like this for many years (until recently).

    4: If you have an 80 to 50 pin non-termination capable adapter that drive MUST NOT be on the end of a SCSI chain since it cannot terminate the chain.
    I don't.

    Thanks to you Damien but I already have the full product manual (84 pages) for that "new" HDD. So I have all these images.
    Like you wrote, CD drive has ID 3 but like I wrote just before, term power jumper was installed when I opened the case.

    Could be a bad drive, but would be very unlucky to have two of them bad....since for 10$ each, I bought two. And I have the same problem with both of them.

    Maybe it is more a software problem than hardware problem. Cause the systems boots up but Mac OS shows it as "not supported" in drive setup.

    Meanwhile, my boss said that we spent enough time on that old computer. I fully agree with him, even though he did not listen to me the first time I said that this old f...... machine should go to trash......I mean "recycling".

    Thanks to all you guys. Your help is very appreciated. I'll check back from time to time maybe either someone or me will come to something, but I don't plan to spend a lot of time on this anymore.

    Thanks again.

  13. #13
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    Default

    Could it be the drive is to big? Back in the day I tried to put a 2 gig drive in an old Mac. Like you I tried 2 drives and neither would work. I then found an old 500 MB drive installed it and it worked. Later learned drives over 1 gig were not supported. Remember back then 500 MB was huge.

  14. #14
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    Default

    The old one was 2gig. New ones are 1gig only. So it shouldn't be the problem.

  15. #15
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    Default

    I got some drives once that had an allocation block size of 516. The Mac and PC both (at the time) required a block size of 512. They showed as unsupported. I came here to MacGurus (only it was on the east coast then) and they pointed me at a scsi editor that allowed me to change the block size, I can't remember what it was called though. This was back in OS 7 days. I am SURE that Magician (one of our Mods) was involved in that and probably Crazy Eights as well. I wonder if someone might entice them into this thread.
    Damien,

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