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Thread: eSATA card recommendations for a Powermac G5

  1. #21
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    Default pci-x esata2

    Yep, it belongs to ebay.
    Can be very useful, if i want to buy at ebay UK or USA, for example.
    But can be i pain in the ass also.
    The idea was great anyway, no matter if you like ebay/paypal or not.
    Most normal people who use PayPal when selling their stuff, spend it right again in any online-shop who offers PayPal-payments.

    You should probably think about a way to get tover these security laps.
    Maybe with a second regular account just for paypal-uses. Or something like that. I donīt want to advertise paypal, but i really think its better for business to have it. If you say business is not so important then you are a happy guy. And wise, too.

    The guy from the pcix-esata2-card (Raidon) wrote me again.
    He sais, the SC drivers are all to be used careful and were made more for developers and less for end-users.
    The raidon card should run without any driver, at least it did so in his G4 (867Mhz).
    Is he right or did he just not get out every feature off the card?
    The G4 also has PCI-slots. The card is made for PCI-X.

    Best regards,
    Patrick

  2. #22
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    Default Raidon card

    I got the Raidon card for 40 Euro (about 52 US-Dollar) plus shipping.
    I will report you, if and how it works.

    Cheers,
    Patrick

  3. #23
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    Default

    I don't believe you'll get full preformance. It's 64 bit the G4 32 bit Look at this Google .

    Or just search-- will a pci-x card work in a pci slot in a G4 mac

  4. #24
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    Default Pci-x

    Hi rwm

    Its not me with the G4.
    I have a G5 with PCI-X xlots.
    Anyway i donīt expect full eSATA performance, but it should be a little bit faster than FW800. And much faster than USB2 or FW400.
    Big point is, that eSATA-enclosures are much cheaper and the choice of FW800 enclosures is very small.
    I have an extern Pleiades-drive with all these interfaces, so i should be able to test differences in performance quite easy.

    Best regards,
    Patrick

  5. #25
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    Default

    You will get full speed - the bus is faster than the drives with that card.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  6. #26
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    Default opps,

    I misread that. Listen to Rick.

  7. #27
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    Default 133Mhz

    No problem, rwm.
    You read too fast.
    Sometimes i have the same problem.

    So i better put the card in the 133Mhz slot. Its number 4, the top slot, i think.

    What about my FW800 card? It is in that slot right now.

    What if i use both cards at the same time? I assume, they slow down each other. At least, if there ist data traffic on both interfaces at the same time.
    Better if i take out the FW800 card?

    I will check that out.
    Anyway i wanted to run some performance tests beginning with the LaCie-eSATA-card and the other interfaces on the G5. Comparing them will answer these questions, too. I hope.

    Do you know, if the DriveGenius-benchtest is a useful tool for that job?

    Best regards,
    Patrick

  8. #28
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    Default

    Either card will run fine at 100 MHz. I would probably put the much higher capability SATA card in the high speed slot.

    R
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  9. #29
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    Default installed

    Hi Rick and co.

    I installed the new eSATA-card yesterday and tried it first time one hour ago, but it seems not to work without the driver.
    So i have to install the driver first.

    The LaCie eSATA150-card worked without the driver very well.
    I have the benchmarks from that card compared to the FW800 bus.
    I also tried the FW800 card that was in the second PCI-X slot. It was about 10% slower than the real FW800 bus, so i put that card out, makes no sense keeping it.

    If you are interested:

    Test-Drive Macpower Pleiades - 1TB

    Sustained Read / Sustained Write /
    Random Read / Random Write
    (Max - Min - Avg)

    FW800 :
    50.53 - 28.92 - 47.84 / 40.00 - 13.55 - 37.04 /
    50.53 - 12.55 - 39.02 / 40.85 - 17.76 - 35.78

    LaCie eSATA150 PCI-X:
    66.21 - 40.85 - 65.16 / 60.00 - 24.10 - 55.67 /
    66.21 - 11.93 - 49.26 / 61.94 - 21.82 - 54.81

    So even the LaCie card with SATA1 is already up to 50% faster than the internal FW800 bus of the G5.
    If the Raidon card will work as exoected it must be even much faster.
    So you were right and all the people telling the difference between FW800 and PCI-X/eSATA on G5 PPCs is too small are wrong.

    I keep you informed about the new eSATAII card. So far it does not work without any driver as the LaCie card did.

    Best regards,
    Patrick

  10. #30
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    Will never work without a driver.

    Some chipsets the driver may be included in OSX. (and I have no idea whose card LaCie is selling, so can't tell you what chipset - LaCie doesn't make their own cards)

    Don't really have a need to post performance. We sold that card for 10 years. The card is faster than the drives, so speeds you will see will be dependent on how fast and how full the drives are. All drives are slower than that SATAII card. Means what you are measuring is the speed of the drives.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  11. #31
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    Default not faster?

    Hi Rick.

    So the speed of the drives is somewhere between the speed of SATA150 and SATA300?
    I already heard, that SATA600 is only making sense with SSD-drives.
    That means, normal HHDs with platters, which are sold as SATA600 drives are some kind of fake. Right?

  12. #32
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    Speed of drives is pretty much always slower than SATA150. There are only a few new model drives that are faster than SATA150.

    It also may be that in enclosures that have multiple ports, like mixed FW and eSATA, that the bridge would slow things.

    Usually the slowest thing on an inexpensive case like the Lacie is the drive. No telling what quality or performance drive they will install in them without opening it up and looking.
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  13. #33
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    Inexpensive? The LaCie drives are rather expensive here in germany.

    But anyway, the eSATA150 card is from LaCie, the tested drive is a Macpower Pleiades. I have a LaCie drive, too, but i heard, the Peiades is one of the fastest external enclosures.

    So i will notice no speed difference with the eSATA300-card?

  14. #34
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    So i will notice no speed difference with the eSATA300-card?
    Nope it won't. like Rick said you need a faster hard drive.

  15. #35
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    I can absolutely guarantee that the "Macpower Pleiades" is no faster than any other enclosure of its type. In fact, from what I can see they are rebranded enclosures from a manufacturer we use to build a couple of our smaller enclosures. In this case, marketing that leads one to believe there is anything faster about them is not to be believed. They are good enclosures, but they are just as dependent on what drive is installed and which bridge is inside them as any other enclosure.

    I would bet that a SATAII chipset on the host card will probably not meen much by itself - that's a guess, since I have no idea the limitations of the Lacie card.

    LaCie has become total crap as a manufacturer years ago. They used to make some nice stuff, 8 or more years ago. Now it is pretty much all made to be as cheap to manufacturer as possible. And they accept a high failure/warranty return rate as part of that process. Don't get me wrong, not attacking your choice. I see this from an insiders perspective. Quality control in design went out the window at Lacie a long time past. THis year Seagate bought them - I would guess that Lacie will get worse because of that. Large corporation don't do design ingenuity well. Lacie rocked when it was a little company with a staff of motivated people working there. Now that they are part of Seagate I expect to see same old same old junk with no hope of improvement.
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  16. #36
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    @rwm
    Faster hard drive is only possible with a SSD-drive, i think.
    I was thinking about buyin a smaller one (256GB) for the system. But stilll they are quite expensive.

    @Rick
    No problem, iīm not a special friend of LaCie products.
    I had one with 80Gb bought about 7-8 years ago and it got "kaputt" (german word for not working anymore) last year.
    The power supply was making weird noises and also the drive inside.
    First i took a look, what they take for a new power supply. It is 30 Euro (!).
    A no-go-price, for 30 Euro i can get a complete enclosure from another brand.
    Taking the LaCie enclosure apart it was the first enclosure i had to damage to get out the hdd.

    My newer LaCie extern HDD with 1TB is working well, but still iīm not a special friend of LaCie products.
    Anyway, iīm not going for brands, i just like the Apple-stuff very much, because of the better systems and the better parts they mostly used to use to build their products.
    The iMac (mine is a 24 inch from early 2008) is one of the greatest PCs ever made i think. But i also think i idonīt like the direction, apple is moving to at the moment. I dontīt like the new systems (Lion and Mountain Lion) and i am aware about the new iMac everybody is waiting for so long.
    I hope it will still be apple, but i am afraid, they move further in the wrong (from my point of view) direction.

    I bought some Apple shares when they were down at 25 Dollars, telling evberybody to do the same. Friend of mine made a lot of money selling last year. I adviced him to wait a little bit longer, but he needed the money for the original HotRod he builds up in his garage - heīs a big friend of old cars from the US, also a Rockabilly- He has also old Jukeboxes and Pinballs in his huge garage. All working. He repairs all that stuff by himself, sometimes buying rather expensive parts directly from the US. An original and rusty engine hood for the Hot Rod was 18.000 Euro, for example. Crazy!
    I had not much money when buying apple shares, so for me it was more supporting my favorite brand and owning a little piece of it.

    Macpower got sold also i think. All the little brands got swallowed by one of the big brands sooner or later. "Dog eat dog. Eat cat, too." (Ronald Belford Scott)

  17. #37
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    One other issue for you to think on - no card that runs on a driver will be bootable. The card doesn't mount until the driver loads. I would not count on the new card to be bootable.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  18. #38
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    Default Raidon card is working

    Hi folks,

    The Raidon card is working well with the 2.0.3 driver.
    And it its still about 20-25 percent faster than the La Cie card with eSATA1
    Almost twice as fast as FW800.

    @Rick
    No, i did not mention that issue. Too bad.
    In fact i had the plan to put my backup system on a drive connected with eSATA.

    The LaCie card works without a driver. Maybe i could boot from a hard disc drive connected to that card.
    But i donīt think, both cards will work togehter, so i may have to decide between
    a little slower and only 2 connectors but (eventually!) bootable
    vs
    not bootable, but little faster and 4 connectors.

    Another important question about eSATA via PCI-X:
    Is it possible to use eSATA-cables longer than 1 meter (= about 3,3 foot?) with no loss of performance and/or reliability?
    Or should i just try out?

    Best regards,
    Pat

  19. #39
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    You should be able to use both PCI cards together, no problem.

    You can backup to a non bootable drive. However, when you want to boot to the backup you will have to attach it to a bootable bus. (inside your G5 or on a card that is bootable)
    2 meter eSATA cables work just as well and just as fast as 1 meter eSATA cables.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  20. #40
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    "You should be able to use both PCI cards together, no problem."

    Great. So i keep the LaCie card and reinstall it right now.
    And try out, if i can boot from that one. Still that ist not for 100% sure, i think.

    "2 meter eSATA cables work just as well and just as fast as 1 meter eSATA cables."

    You seem to (have) use(d) 2m eSATA cables by yourself
    Thats good news for me, cause my external drives are all on a console-board screwed to the wall. I configurate my work-place always with homemade components.
    Right now i have my iMac and all external drives on boards at the wall. Because of the vibrations on the floor, if someone is walking around.
    The large hardware-desktop with monitors, keyboards and mice is just underneath this boards with no contact to it. So if iīm desperate again hammering with my fists on the table it has no effect to the hard drives. Important installation! At least for me.

    If i had to use cables with maximal 3.3 ft length i had to put all the external drives with eSATA connection on top of the G5.
    With longer cables i can leave them on the board at the wall.

    My only drives with (indirect) connection to the floor are the two drives in the G5.
    The G5 is too heavy and it would be too complicate to build and mount a board for this big machine. So i just put it on a lose board, which is well padded.
    (I sometimes use words i had to look for in a dictionary before. "Padded" is one of these words, so i hope i got the right word for this case in the right form and understable grammatics. I mean pads between the flour and the board).
    But still i try to move around slow and easy while one of the the G5-drives is working. Too much panic? We live in an old house with no floor pavement in most of the rooms. But i know, sometimes (ore often) i go to far with my (pre)caution...

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