Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 35

Thread: New Hardware today!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    on the landline, Mr. Smith
    Posts
    7,787

    Default New Hardware today!

    Need to change the name of this forum to X86 Mac, now that they are on to Nvida chipsets.

    End of an era, say goodbye to white. Black USB keyboards and mice should be along in a few weeks.....

    The new MacBooks look great so far, though I wonder if more expensive is the right move with consumer confidence being in the dumper. Glad to see they are keeping the white base model MB on as a lower cost alternative.

    No firewire.....WTF?
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    on the landline, Mr. Smith
    Posts
    7,787

    Default

    Huge video bump, and a 5 hour max battery life looks great. Like the idea of the glass as scratched LCDs drive me insane. Some folks will hate 'em I bet.

    So.........how long 'til the iMacs and Minis see a similar chipset change? Most of the benefit seems to be laptop oriented with better power management.....but smaller, cooler, and better video is always a good thing. Would not be surprised to see the Mini not bumped at all, or at least with crippled video. I hate that Apple does that, but not surprised. Would be a nice surprise to see the Mini get the MB specs, and the iMac get an even better video bump like the MBP got. May not see an iMac bump 'til they can go LED LCD, which could be a ways off?
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    1hr N/W of LA LA Land
    Posts
    3,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unclemac View Post

    No firewire.....WTF?
    Yeah Apple is getting a big fat F from the audio boards I frequent. A lot of mid-level recordists are heavily invested in FW, and to eliminate it from the MB without the option of an expansion slot is a pretty stupid move IMHO.

    Not everyone who does audio/video work can afford a MBP.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    on the landline, Mr. Smith
    Posts
    7,787

    Default

    They always have to make something to make it less than perfect. MB should have at least FW 400...........MBP could have dual channel FW 800 and eSATA if they want to still seperate "Pro" from "Consumer". I think that is a dated model, and was never really accurate. At $1299, that is pretty much a pro price. Not even middle of the road price by todays standards.

    Still a very cool notebook though.
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    NW Montana
    Posts
    8,197

    Default

    Now I am getting closer for that iMac bump? Looks like awhile still.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    1hr N/W of LA LA Land
    Posts
    3,318

    Default

    It seems as though they are trying to push mid-level users to the pro models. With the current economic situation I'm not sure that is such a smart move, but then they have a history of doing this sort of thing.

    Apple seems to have a two-tier mindset: pro users, and Joe consumer. No middle ground.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Grangeville, ID USA
    Posts
    9,123

    Default

    I gots to agree with you guys. When Apple released the MacBook Air with no Firewire I considered it a toy. This takes the MacBook out of serious consideration for anything by a kids machine.

    R
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,818

    Default

    End of an era, say goodbye to white.
    Actually, no. The white MacBook lives on as the inexpensive base model Macbook, price at USD 999. It's mentioned in the press release:

    An updated 13-inch white MacBook featuring 2.1 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processors, a 120GB 5400 rpm hard drive and a slot-load 8X SuperDrive® is now available for $999 (US).
    I found it the darn page. You won't see it in the image browser at the top of the Mac section/tab. It's listed at the very bottom with all the other products "Macbook White".

    http://www.apple.com/macbook/white/

    I'm looking at that page, and it's old school previous-gen Macbook from what I can tell with probably just a CPU bump. It still has FW400 as well as Intel integrated graphics from the Tech Spec page.

    I guess this is the low price notebook that all the bloggers and tech writers were clamoring for, at the are-you-out-of-your-mind price of $800. I say out of your mind because my gut told me there was no way in heck Apple would touch that price point now. They did manage to squeak in under a grand, which seemed to me about right.

    I agree with you guys about FW. How the freak are you supposed to hook up a camcorder with FW to say do iMovie or FCE? I know that there are a host of new camcorders compressing and recording straight to disc so you dump the pre-compressed via USB2. But still lots of videocameras out there old and new that require FW for capturing the video before you can do any work.

    I was thinking I would go MBP anyway when I upgraded for the Express slot (needed for my Vodafone connect card). But the FW800 seals the deal in its favor. Uggh!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    on the landline, Mr. Smith
    Posts
    7,787

    Default

    I hate to see them moving away from FW, but they are. We might as well get used to it. For a consumer with a newer Vid camera, USB only is fine. Let's face it, that is what most PC users use, without issue.

    The real issue is for users like Brane was refering to, who have special FW needs and solutions. Why orphan them? To keep Apple marketshare growing, especially in this economy, they should be adding every potential customer they can, and not cutting anybody out of the loop. Overall they have been adding functionality recently, especially with the X86 switch allowing folks to nearly any OS on the planet that can run on X86. They charge a premium price for nice hardware that is flexible.....why shoot themselves in the foot? Space? Cost? "Consumer" market? I don't buy any of those.

    With the MBAir, I can understand......lightest possible road warrior machine. Fine. But the MB has turned into the mid level work horse jack of all trades. Leaving out FW hurts. For the price, it should have included FW and eSATA.

    Yeah, I am actually relived that they are selling the old MB for $999. I have a hunch they will sell well. Wish they still had black though. If they offered both colors at $999, I would be sure they would sell well.
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    NW Montana
    Posts
    8,197

    Default I could be ready for an iMac.

    It might be time. Then a CPU and graphics bump would be nice also. I really don't need a tower.

    Mac Buyers Guide

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    on the landline, Mr. Smith
    Posts
    7,787

    Default

    Pretty good summary of new MacBooks.
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Somewhere sweaty
    Posts
    86

    Default

    They always have to make something to make it less than perfect. MB should have at least FW 400...
    I'd rather have only FW800 ports because I can always use conversion cables like these.

    With Apple using Intel products (does Intel still design the motherboards?) does this mean Firewire will be replaced by USB 3.0? This protocol has nice data transfer rates and looks like it competes with FW 1S600 & S3200. Actual data transfer rates of USB 3.0 may be more like 3 Gbps, not the theoretical 5 Gbps.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Virginia... where one Democrat CAN make a difference
    Posts
    2,929

    Default

    Could be wrong but I don't think Intel ever designed a motherboard for Apple. Weren't they always Apple designed just using Intel chips?
    Damien,

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    on the landline, Mr. Smith
    Posts
    7,787

    Default

    Yes, the Mac X86 logicboards have been Intel up til now. Apple has spec'd or required a few tweaks, but still Intel goods. Apple has worked with Intel to pick through their line, and even get pre-release stuff before it went out to other PC makers on both CPUs and chipsets, as well has have some fairly speciallized stuff fabbed for them, as with the MacBook Air.

    Don't forget that Intel is a huge company that does lots of R&D, and creation, and that they have a heck of a time gettng generic, lowest cost PC makers to embrace their newest and best stuff. USB and EFI are two examples of Intel tech that PC market snubbed until Apple included them.........and EFI is still largely snubbed.

    As for USB 3, it will be there if Apple wants it, which is likely a no brainer if it is anything like USB 1 and 2. As for FW 800, yes, I would much prefer that with the adapter cables. Heck, they could retire FW 400. And most importantly what about FW3200?

    ---

    I understand Apple chasing consumers, who are mostly switchers, and who don't know what firewwire is, and are happy with USB 2. Its cheap, and it works. Switchers largely won't care, unless they have an older video camera.

    The part I don't understand (or don't agree with) is that by including firewire, Apple gives us all options. We don't have to use it, but we can. On OS 10, on Windows, and on Linux and Solaris. We pay a premium price for a premium machine, so limiting choice makes it less premium.

    It would be one thing if they were offering a low end MacBook, minus features..........like the previous plastic model without firewire, with less video, for say $899. There's your SwitcherBook. Sell that in white and black, and you are gaining market share. Fast. The new AlMacBook is a mid level mid-to-high level product is every way but port options.

    Apple has too small a product line at this point to remove FW from the MB, IMHO. They need to make each and every model cover as much as the market needs and wants as possible, since there are so few choices.

    But the MacBook has moved upscale in price and design, in every way excecpt flexibilty of ports. The real fix here would be to put—at least—an expresscard 34 in it, thereby allowing the users to plug in whatever they want, including:EVDO, eSATA, FW400, FW00, and even a dedicated hadware RAID. Plus it opens the door form more cards and future options.

    Options. We need options.


    Apple: Please reverse directions and keep firewire. Your customers, allies and competitors are vested!
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Somewhere sweaty
    Posts
    86

    Default

    But the MacBook has moved upscale in price and design, in every way excecpt flexibilty of ports. The real fix here would be to put—at least—an expresscard 34 in it...
    According to the specs posted here, there is an ExpressCard 34 slot on the Macbook Pro.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    on the landline, Mr. Smith
    Posts
    7,787

    Default

    Yup, and there has been since the first MBP. Would love to see that on the MB. But not holding my breath.

    So, if lack of FW makes the new MB consumer grade, what about the iMac and Mini? Will they lack FW too in their next revision? If so, that means only on the MBP and the MacPro?

    That doesn't make any sense to me. Might as well kill it altogether, and move on to the next thing. Hope they don't though, as there is no "next thing", better, more flexible and feature rich than FW. Yet.
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Somewhere sweaty
    Posts
    86

    Default

    Yup, and there has been since the first MBP. Would love to see that on the MB.
    Ah, I understand what you meant now.

    I wonder how Apple, Dell and others evaluate the market for connectivity ports. My wife and kids use USB for photos and iPods all the time. My Canon cameras used FW400 in the first iterations of the camera, but now use USB 2.0 My video camera uses FW400 or Express 34 slots. Designing which ports to use has gotta be a difficult choice to make for a 'puter designer. I just hope they don't use only computer registration info (when the owner indicates their business and/or computer use) and not some other, more exact way, of knowing what ports to use.

    Apple did make a very firm statement about their choice and use of DisplayPort vs. HDMI. I'd think they'd do the same with FW and USB.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Grangeville, ID USA
    Posts
    9,123

    Default

    I gotta tell you guys, the lacking in FW has thrown me a loop. I have always preferred Firewire over USB for high speed data transfers. And MacGurus has never once sold pure USB storage. Some of our Firewire enclosures have USB, but we never even bother testing in USB.

    And now, just in the last few weeks, we have Firewire 800 bus powered enclosures for 2.5 inch drives that saturate the Firewire! We are talking over 80MB/sec with the 2.5 inch Momentus SATA drives in a bus powered enclosure over FW800. Awesome. And halfway useless by the appearance of where Apple is going. Damn.

    Earlier this week, as a result of this thread, I ordered up a bunch of sample USB2 enclosures to test. It feels wrong somehow. But it has to be done.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    1hr N/W of LA LA Land
    Posts
    3,318

    Default

    I would bet that the average MB user doesn't understand the advantages of FW over USB, and likely doesn't own many if any FW peripherals so Apple decides it's not worth the expense of including it.

    Meanwhile those of us in the niche market i.e. low budget A/V get the short end of the stick.

    I guess that's called progress.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Somewhere sweaty
    Posts
    86

    Default

    I copied the following info from this site:
    480 Mbits per second is the raw bus rate for USB2 and NOT the rate at which data transfer can be achieved. There is a much higher overhead involved in USB2 data transfer and typical actual data rates for an external HDD from a Win XP platform are:

    Headline Actual Read Actual Write Efficiency(Average)
    USB 2.0
    480 264 208 49%
    1394a
    400 332 264 75%
    1394b
    800 712* 496* 76%
    Data Rates using Oxford Semiconductor’s OXUF924
    All data rates in Mbits/sec
    * Striped RAID solution

    Many current USB2 devices will only run at ‘Full speed’, which is a very slow 12 Mbps.

    FireWire is available now at 800 Mbps. The actual data throughput for FireWire 800 based RAID systems is limited by the disk performance and not by the FireWire bus. FireWire 1600 and FireWire 3200 are in development.
    I don't understand the market's resistance to FW and can only assume that either USB 3.0 blows FW away, or the jerks in Redmond refuse to write the necessary code. (boy that didn't format very well )

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •