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Thread: Slow (minutes, not seconds) boot and shutdown

  1. #1
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    Default Slow (minutes, not seconds) boot and shutdown

    Looks like I have my very first real problem since I switched from the PC world.

    My Mac Pro (8-core 3.0Ghz 16GB RAM 41TB drives raided together) is taking an extremely long time to boot and shut down. I said minutes, but the last time I shut down, I left the thing for two days (totally forgot about it and got busy) and when I went down stairs, it was still sitting there with the little spinning clock thingy "shutting down."

    When the machine is up and running all is well and there is no noticeable slow down. It seems to affect only Start up and Shut Down.

    I also have 8 1TB drives in a Burly eSata enclosure as well as 4 750GB drives in a 4 bay Burly.

    The only other symptom I've noticed is that when I hook up my compact flash card to download pictures, I can never eject it properly as it always comes up as "in use and cannot be ejected."


    I've done repair permissions, but that's about all the Mac trouble shooting I know.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks
    Jim
    Mac Pro 2x Duo 3.0 Ghz OS10.4.1 7GB Ram ** Mac Pro 2x Quad 3.0 Ghz OS10.5 16GB Ram ** MacBook Pro Core 2 duo 2.4Ghz OS10.5 4GB ram ** Plus a couple left over PCs as I'm a recent switche

  2. #2
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    Default

    How is the 41TB RAID configured?

    Is it an external FC RAID, or just a bunch of SATA drives connected to SATA controllers and software raided together?
    Custom Configurations! Rad Hacks and Mods!

  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas View Post
    How is the 41TB RAID configured?

    Is it an external FC RAID, or just a bunch of SATA drives connected to SATA controllers and software raided together?
    Sorry, that should have been 4 1TB Drives. They are internal in a stripped array using Disk Utility.
    Mac Pro 2x Duo 3.0 Ghz OS10.4.1 7GB Ram ** Mac Pro 2x Quad 3.0 Ghz OS10.5 16GB Ram ** MacBook Pro Core 2 duo 2.4Ghz OS10.5 4GB ram ** Plus a couple left over PCs as I'm a recent switche

  4. #4
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    Default

    And you do have one partition with lets say 100GB for the System or is the system the entire 4TB partition?
    Custom Configurations! Rad Hacks and Mods!

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas View Post
    And you do have one partition with lets say 100GB for the System or is the system the entire 4TB partition?

    It is all one partition, but had been running fine that way for a couple months.
    Mac Pro 2x Duo 3.0 Ghz OS10.4.1 7GB Ram ** Mac Pro 2x Quad 3.0 Ghz OS10.5 16GB Ram ** MacBook Pro Core 2 duo 2.4Ghz OS10.5 4GB ram ** Plus a couple left over PCs as I'm a recent switche

  6. #6
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    Default

    This is nothing new, most configurations like yours are working fine first, until they got gigs of data on them

    Such a big system partition is hard to handle for the OS, I would suggest using a 200GB partition MAX for the System itself.

    If you are using partitions like 2 or 4TB the system has to scan it everytime you are starting up (Windows is even more handycaped with such a big system partition).

    If there is only data on a 2 or 4 TB RAID it's not a problem at all.

    I have to state that I am not a big fan of such setups, I do prefer having the System and the Data on different partitions.

    Regards

    Nicolas
    Custom Configurations! Rad Hacks and Mods!

  7. #7
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    Default My thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas View Post
    I have to state that I am not a big fan of such setups, I do prefer having the System and the Data on different partitions.
    And I second that thought.

    To take it further, I would never use a software raid for my boot system. The speed gain is almost nill (this has been proven).

    Most users never need the power of stripping 4 drives together. But thats my opinion only.

    I would backup your data and start-anew.
    MacBook Pro Uni 2.4GHz with express card slot

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  8. #8
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    Default

    To further the discussion of use of a striped RAID for an OS.

    Striped RAID is fast, economical and useful to make big fast volumes. Very robust and really simple. It strengths include the ability to move large blocks of data very quickly.

    Its weakness is that it only does one thing at a time and it takes longer to switch to doing something else.

    In my opinion, for what it is worth, you should use striped RAID arrays only for data types that can benefit from a striped RAID. And again in my opinion, OS and applications make loads and loads of constant, small and repeated accesses to the storage and not only cannot benefit from a RAID that screams on large data transfers, but water down what performance increases that RAID is giving the data files to such an extent as to be a net total drag on the system. Trying to do too many things at once from a storage system that isn't optimized for multitasks.

    I much prefer to set up a system with separate storage for the OS and save the fast RAID0 for the data storage. That way the OS always has full access to its storage, can make all those niggling little log entries, command string, and permission checks - and that access has absolutely no effect at all on the super fast data flow in and out of that smokin hot RAID.

    Not to mention the consequence of having all your eggs in one basket. A small corruption on a striped RAID that contains something as fragmentable and complicated as the OS and applications will grow like a fungus and limit your options on how to fix it. Repairing that monster with a good drive utility can take a week or more.

    Macs, PCs, Linux, Solaris, doesn't matter what OS, better to keep it off the RAID, IMHO.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  9. #9
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    Default Agreed

    Rick, you said it better than I, and I fully agree.
    MacBook Pro Uni 2.4GHz with express card slot

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  10. #10
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    Default

    Ok, thanks everyone. Now I have a lot of questions:

    Should I "un-raid" everything and run the system off one of my drives and then raid the remaining 3 together for storage?

    All my internal drives are 1TB, but I do have the original 250GB drive around as well.

    My main (and almost exclusive) use for this machine is photo editing and processing using Adobe LightRoom and Photoshop CS3


    Whichever advice you give, please help me out with the technical aspects of how to do it as well. Things like: Do I clone my system to my externals and then do a clean install of the OS? How do I split the Raid volume up and can this be done while the system is running from that drive? etc etc.

    Thanks again,
    Jim
    Mac Pro 2x Duo 3.0 Ghz OS10.4.1 7GB Ram ** Mac Pro 2x Quad 3.0 Ghz OS10.5 16GB Ram ** MacBook Pro Core 2 duo 2.4Ghz OS10.5 4GB ram ** Plus a couple left over PCs as I'm a recent switche

  11. #11
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    Default

    You will most likely need to do what you can to copy off, break the RAID and then copy back the OS to one drive and other data to the rest of the drives. No need to do a clean install of the system. Clone it, then clone it back.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  12. #12
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    Default

    Thanks again.

    Oddly enough, the problem cleared up when I ejected my Time Machine Drive. It was full and I wonder if the errors it was getting trying to back up were interfering with things.

    I erased the TM drive and started it up again. Now all is well and the "cannot eject" error that I was getting with my compact flash cards is gone too

    In any case, I should probably split my RAID anyway as to avoid future problems.
    Mac Pro 2x Duo 3.0 Ghz OS10.4.1 7GB Ram ** Mac Pro 2x Quad 3.0 Ghz OS10.5 16GB Ram ** MacBook Pro Core 2 duo 2.4Ghz OS10.5 4GB ram ** Plus a couple left over PCs as I'm a recent switche

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