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Thread: Giga dual 1.8 in a 867 Quicksilver --- Normal Temps?

  1. #1
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    Default Giga dual 1.8 in a 867 Quicksilver --- Normal Temps?

    Hello.

    It seems that the Giga deal 1.8 Upgrade I got here has no temp reporting...


    ..I was wondering if anyone had ballpark figures for how hot this computer (867 Quicksilver) should run with the giga 1.8 upgrade as per what temperature monitor reports on the hard drive.


    Mine would run at 125+ F with the upgrade at full 1.8 and crashed handily, most crashes are eliminated with a downclocking to 1.6 however, every now and then wered crashes happen. They are rare, but they still happen. at 1.6Ghz the Hard drive reports about an even 50 C at "idle" and higher under load. The fan still sounds like its running at full steam until I open the case and it slows down a bit.



    Also, do you guys normally report your temps in degrees C or degrees F? Which is more common?



    I get the idea that now I must be tearing holes into my computer for it to breathe properly. Are there any simple writeups here or elsewhere about basic, straightforeward case mods you can do to cool a Quicksilver powermac that has been upgraded?

    Also, all of my vent holes are dust free!

    Thanks


    __Ben

  2. #2
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    Panther doesn't support reading temps off the chip die like 9 so no temp monitoring is normal for these upgrades. I check temps by popping the case open, and feeling things. Others have used temp probes.

    One of the best things you can do for a QS is reverse the CPU fan so it's exhausting hot air from the case instead of taking hot air from the PSU exhaust, and recirculating it back in.

    If you're not into hacking your case you could also add a PCI slot cooler. Right beneath the video card would be a good spot to expell some hot air.

    If you're not afraid of cutting/drilling holes have a look at my case mod thread. There are other ideas floating around too, but I go for quiet as well as cool.

    50C hard drive temp is pretty damn hot. Need to do something about that pronto.

  3. #3
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    I am no expert here, but have found HD and CPU temperature monitors to be a bit unreliabe.
    (if somebody has a verified thermometer please let me know)
    That said, I generally trust the touch method.
    If the drive or processor seem HOT to your fingers you may have a problem to address.
    Not a High-Tech solution, but has allways worked for me.

    Dave
    The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

  4. #4
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    Thanks.

    Yeah Ill figure something out soon so I can try out the full 1.8Ghz again.


    This is interesting... Sooo.. theres no temp reporting for my 867 Quicksilver, (Giga dual 1.8 upgrade), Yet, yet.... yet the original cooling fan system seems to know when things are getting too hot as it spools up greatly shortly after turning on. If i open the case, the fans go markedly slower in just a couple minutes. It knows how hot it is, it just isnt telling me !



    ___g42hot

  5. #5
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    Default Fans in QS etc.

    The fans have thermistors which activate on heat (little blue chip on most G4 fans)...

    There is no CPU temperature diode on most G4's, I tend to use a Fluke Voltmeter with a temp probe attached.

    If you are seeing 50C on the HD, your case is too warm.
    MacBook Pro Uni 2.4GHz with express card slot

    iMac G5

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    my case was just a couple hours ago 50C at "idle" (low processor usage), as detected on temperature monitor at the original Quicksilver's hard disk temp.

    Now its about maybe 41-42C at idle

    I tried this just now since i posted last, whilst the computer was on.

    Doh.. Sorry I was trying to post a picture.

    Basically, I noticed that the Giga fans expelled hot air also on the side of the heat sink facing the input fan. Well, it seemed that that hot air was being picked back up by the outlet blast of the main inlet fan and recirculated back into the two Giga fans.

    I put a small strip on cardboard between the top of the giga heat sink and the bottom of the inlet fan, slightly at an angle, to prevent hot heat sink air recirculaton back into the giga fans. Now, the hot air on the original inlet fan side of the giga heat sink must travel below the cardboard strip and out into the box, and only cool inlet air is going into the Giga fans.

    It is now running at 42C as opposed to 50C.

    Sorry I dont have a place to upload my pic, as to link you to it.



    --->>>But, Im curious. Has anyone installed a Giga Dual 1.8 in a quicksilver and had it work perfectly without any cooling system upgrades or mods.. (Ges, this is a computer, not an automobile!) ??

    __g42hot

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    Ah, it just went up to 43C for a moment, then back down to 42.. I must have been typing my last post too quickly But seriously, this seems to work a bit. Also, its over 75 F in this room now which normally its not over 72.. So its hot in here to begin with.

    __g42hot

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    Default crap

    ah crap. My computer just crashed. Which is funny because the HD was indicating cooler after i put that cardboard strip inside... Even the original inlet fan is not humming so loudly.

    Maybe Ive interrupted the airflow or something... oh well. I suppose the best thing for me to do is to install a new exhaust fan.

    doh.

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    I agree with Brane! PCI slot cooler fan has worked well for me. My DA never gets above 37C with it. But I never got to 50C before having it either. They are pretty cheap too. $10 @ Compusa

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    After the crash I installed that BOINC thing with SETI@home and ran it for hours while using the computer.. the case temp never went above 43C during the whole time and it was over 74F in here-- warmer than usual (The weather here in atlanta has been crazy warm for this time of year). But, no crahses with seti@home running and the computer loaded up.


    Is reinstalling the OS, then using the software updater immediately after a good idea after several wered, possibly heat related crashes? Are there components of the OS that are better off just clean reinstalled after continual crahses?



    __g42hot

  11. #11
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    This is just a quick observation, but wouldnt another inlet port on the quicksilver be of more value than another exhaust port?


    1. It seems as if the system has the capacity to expel a ton more air than can come in through the one small inlet area by the processor card.

    2. It seems as I remember in the past, and as I was installing the Giga upgrade card, that dust will accumulate in EVERY crevice where air can leak into the system, which means all around where the case splits as well as around every port hole and around the shields for unused PCI slots.. The case is running "under vacuum"

    3. It feels as if more air is expelled than enters from the small inlet area by the processor... Air leaking in from every non-fully-sealed part of the case? Also, a small increase in exhaust airflow can be noticed when openning the case.


    Perhaps the Quicksilver might benefit from nothing more than an extra inlet hole, fan or no, somewhere near the top of the case where the heat accumulates.


    _g42hot

  12. #12
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    I have both a QS and DA and have had Dual Giga in each. I have a 2 year old SATA Seagate that runs from 40-47 C no matter where I put it or what cooling mods I have done. I have a 10K Raptor that rarely runs hotter than 35 C in the same computer. This is using Hardware monitor to test.

    They both draw air in the bottom holes. Moderator Brane and some members have drilled a few more. There are several great cooling threads here some where that talk about many factors in cooling. I'll try to find and post the better ones.

    Brane's great thread.
    Water Cooled.

    We can thank Kaye for this...... But one of the huge problems with the QS cooling is the location of intake and exhaust on the rear of the case, particularly under a desk where heat builds up. So a small table fan helps. I have one under my desk sucking air from outside of the desk and blowing towards the rear of the case. I have another that I turn on if I want to run either G4 with the side door open. Your cardboard fixed this.

    A pic from a guy with the complaints:

    Unfortunately he shows it with the Front on the right side so you are looking thru the back wall. So I just flipped it horizontally in Pshop:

    So now you are looking thru the side door. I read backwards better anyway.

    The important part of either of those pics is that the lower Case Exhaust (120mm fan on back wall) hot air rises and gets sucked right back into the case by the CPU fan sucking air in. Pretty dirty trick Apple. So a table fan moving in cool air under the desk and blowing case exhaust air away from the back helps a lot. That fan comes on automatically when I power up and I can leave it on after shutdown to more rapidly cool in summer months. The other I just turn on manually when I want to operate with the side door open. k
    Last edited by rwm; 01-15-2007 at 07:58 PM. Reason: fix url

  13. #13
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    Arrow Seti

    If you can run SETI for hours that is great.

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    Great post.. Thank you.

    I do believe that Ill be doing some drilling on the case. I was thinking about adding a small inlet hole somewhere near the top of the box, where the original air intake grille is on the back, and also a powered exhaust port also near the top, but towards the front. Just something to get the hot air OUT of the top of the box, where its trapped right by the processor card.

    Liquid cooling for this? naa. hehe. And M.Brane's solution would probably take me a year to do .. way too involved for me.

    I think the ultimate problem with this quicksilver fan setup is that the hot air (which rises, right?) is not going to the lower sections of the box to escape. Granted, the outlet fan ports always shed hot air, but there really isnt anything significant nearby the processor(s) to help the CPU card stay cool. The entire cooling effort for the processors is just that one small air intake grill by the CPU area.


    I believe venting the top area of the case should cushion the CPU in a cooler environment. After I take care of that, perhaps I can try setting the Giga to the full 1.8 Ghz.


    By the way, no crashes yet today, and SETI has run all day, 100% resources, and no troubles, HD Temp still 42C.

    Thanks again for the reply and diagram rwm.


    __g42hot

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    There was a member here (Designer?) who mounted a couple of 80mm fans in the top of the case to exhaust hot air from above the optical drive. My problem with that was the noise, and also the fact that you can't set anything on top of the case that way.

    If you approach airflow like a G5 case where it's divided into sections that each move cool air in the front, and exhaust it out the back you may have something. Would be a lot of work I think though. Probably easier to just get another case at that point.

    I think the easiest way with a QS is to mod the case fan's airflow, and reverse the CPU fan to make the airflow more like the earlier models. The G4 case is far from airtight so unless you have some insane exhaust fans I don't think you could ever pull a vacuum inside the case. Adding some additional holes to the bottom of the case (where they are out of sight, and harm's way) to let in more cool air around the drives will help them live a longer life, and the increased airflow through the entire case will help keep the rest cool too.

  16. #16
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    Default M Brane

    The reason for my proposed top-of-the-box vent and port system was to keep fresh, cool air comming in right there where the holy of holies (the cpu ) resides, having a whole new fresh air vent right there by the processor card. The exhaust outlet (powered with a 60-80mm fan) would be near the front, right smack dab on the top of the box, where the power unit TOTALLY fails to remove the hot air there.




    Does anyone know what mm size fan will replace the inlet fan circled on the picture I attached? Its held in by a rubber-ish shroud thingie complete with an advanced hot-air-recirculation slot. I was thinking a 60mm fan will replace this original one.


    __g42hot

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    There is a thread around where someone did put about a 4" square fan right in the top. Not real attractive but should have worked. Take a look right here more ideas and links to cooling mods.

    Search Guru's forum for.. cooling fans, temperature, cooling QS and other key words there are several good cooling threads in this forum that talk about fan size, fan noise etc.

  18. #18
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    I've seen where some people have covered the small hole in the QS CPU fan shroud since it's a noise source.

    The problem with bringing air in the back of the QS is you're bringing in hot air from the PSU, and case exhaust. This is not necessarily a problem for the CPU since the air that's hitting it is relatively cool compared to the heat sink, but it does create a problem for the case in general as it creates a loop in the airflow for the entire case.

    Perhaps instead of exhausting air out the front you could simply create an intake hole in front, and duct it to the CPU.

    Right now my DA has the CPU grill on the backplate removed, and the stock Giga fans. I have a PCI slot cooler temporarily sitting on top of the optical drive blowing toward the Giga. It runs plenty cool this way, but it's not as quiet as I'd like. I'm going to make a new CPU fan bracket/shroud which will use an 80mm fan mounted at an agle so it exhausts out the back. This will create plenty of airflow across the CPU, eliminate a lot of the noise from the 2 small/loud fans, and help get more hot air out of the case which is good for everything not just the CPU.

    I did leave the main case fan on the stock bracket this time, but I did the same intake hole mods as I did on the Gigabit. I may mount the main case fan directly to the side of the case eventually since that frees up a lot of room around the drives.

    I researched this stuff quite a bit before modding my Gigabit, and the general consensus seem to be the best airflow is acheived through passive intake (no fans) active exhaust (fans), and a bottom/front to top/back airflow. It makes sense to me since heat rises naturally, and by locatng the fans on the back of the case you help keep noise to a minimum. Also by having the intakes on the opposite side of the case from the exhaust you can be reasonably sure you're not recirculating preheated air back inside.

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    Yes, Keep Things Simple - common sense works good.

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    Default seems to be running fine now.

    As a late update to my last few posts about crashing, well my computer was doing that anyways even before I put in the piece of cardboard between the processor card heat sink and the bottom of the inlet fan shroud (to help prevent hot air recirculation).

    Well, after that I totally removed the inlet fan along with the modem jack (the modem has long since been burned out-wont detect dial tone). So, with the inlet fan out and the somewhat large-ish hole for the modem jack the temps went down a couple more degrees C.

    The crashes continued until i reinstalled the system clean, 10.4.3 from the original DVD, without asking to save my old prefs. What happenned was a few weeks ago I reinstalled the OS after one of the USB ports in my apple keyboard failed to recognize my headset as an output device. The port must have been dead.. I thought it was a crazy software problem because the system recognized and allowed the use of the mic in the headset, but would not output sound.

    When I reinstalled the OS (10.4.3 from the original DVD) i had the install save and transfer my old settings over to the new system. (immediately after installing i noticed the same headset problem, switched the port with the one for my mouse and it works fully again..?? but the mouse works on the port that wont recognize the headset speaker??)

    I noticed that after the install a background process called "mdimport" was running for a long time and while it was running I turned on my stereo which triggered my X-Tra Cheap UPS battery backup but instead of just beeping for a moment it shut my computer off. I think that this power failure caused soemthing to get REALLY messed up in the system, even after the standard updates to the latest system version.

    So eventually, I reinstalled the OS again, clean with no settings or info transferred to the new system and being careful that the system had reliable power. Also, the process "mdimport" didnt run at all after the install when i selected the clean, no transfer settings option.

    Perhaps the transferring of settings to a new system adds to the probability of an unstable system install.. dunno, but either that or the power failure ~5 minutes after the install with "mdmport" churning away helped cause a not so stable system install.


    __g42hot

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