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Thread: Quad G5: WD 150GB Raptor ok?

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    Question Quad G5: WD 150GB Raptor ok?

    We want to replace our 74 GB Raptor with a new 150 GB Raptor on our G5 QUAD. The new 150 GB Raptor does not work with the internal controller very well as I understand it. So - can I place the new 150 GB Raptor in one of the internal drive bays - power it from the internal cable - BUT run a data cable from the new drive out of the QUAD and plug it into one of the ports of a new Sonnet Tempo PCIe card that I will buy? The thought is that I will have bypassed the internal controller for that one drive and still have three available ports for my external storage.

    How does that sound for some half-ass engineering :-)

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    That will work fine.

    FWIW I have a Raptor 150 on the internal controller of my Rev A g5 and have no issues. I believe you have to get file sizes up to 15gig or larger to see the issue and I make no files that big.

    ALSO I think I read that the issue does not affect new G5's with PCIe so you may be creating an issue that does not exist. Confirm that first though because I am not 100% sure
    Damien,

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    Damien - thanks - I have been searching around for info regarding the new Raptor on a Quad but have not found anything that provides much clarity on if it works or not. Like you - I have no 15 GB files ( nor 10 nor 5 for that matter) - so, FOR THE MOMENT, maybe it is only a problem in theory, not in practice for me.

    I do worry that with the advent of 1080p HD movies the size of files will grow rapidly and I hate to invest in something with a built in problem. My guess is that we will not see Apple invest many additional $$$ in fixing the HD controller support issues with the WD products. I guess I'll just continue to grow my Quad to serve me well for the next couple of years and scope out where things are then.

    Cheers!

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    Lightbulb

    There is an entry in the SATA and PATA Drive FAQ in Storage section devoted just to the WD1500 with links to a number of articles.

    There were some initial Duo Core 2.0 (and maybe 2.3) G5s that had trouble, but was fixed very quickly. Pre-Duo Core G5s though will have to use a 3rd party controller.

    Seems like we can say that we are into 2nd generation G5s (PCIe) and as in all new models, there will also be some "rev 1" issues.

    Bugs in ROMs and firmware can be updated, patched, over-ridden by microkernel and OS.

    And, with a MacIntel handy, might now be able to update firmware on Raptor etc if needed
    Last edited by TZ; 04-07-2006 at 11:15 AM.

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    TZ - would you be so kind as to direct me again to the FAQ area you suggested - I'm not finding it :-0

    Also - I'm reading your response as saying the new 150 GB Raptor should work on my Quad through on of the internal bays and on-board controller as it is dual core 2.5 - did I read you correctly?

    Thanks again!

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    Lightbulb

    The link in my .sig takes you there.

    The FAQ Index has a section just for Storage. And in there, a link to SATA Drives.

    My sig link "Upgrade & Troubleshooting FAQ" is:
    http://www.macgurus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18533

    Why can't you find it -?

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    TZ - got it - thanks. I'm going through the various links now.

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    Default Suggestions other than Raptor 150 GB?

    A different question to get at my issue - a new boot & application drive is needed for my Quad. After reading many links I have not been able to get a clear position that the new Raptor 150 will "fully" work on the Quad. The Hitachi 500 gets good reviews - known to draw a lot of current / generate heat.

    I doubt that I will utilize more than 100 GB or so for OS and apps - so a 250 GB drive may be ample capacity.

    Price is secondary - reliability, speed and noise are the main....... :-)

    Your suggestions please..........

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    Lightbulb

    I don't see (though I haven't been active on the Apple G5 Discussions lately) that a 150GB Raptor would not work.

    Higher density platters are always good

    I normally have a boot OS/Apps and keep all my documents and media on another drive. Partitioning the boot drive so I can use some for static archive or whatever makes sense.

    I think a Raptor boot drive, and 500GB for media (even use some of the outer tracks for scratch volume) can work. It all depends on how you like to organize your files and work. And be ready to change as the mood suits if it isn't working.

    Most questions (and threads) go through a lot of twists, turns, and different paths. Having a common thread anyone can see where it has been and what has been suggested already.

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    Default I am stumped on this too...

    had planned on buying a 150, but there is no 'definite' on whether the Raptor 150's work or dont work... not worth the risk of data in my eyes.

    And of course the PCI-e vs. PCI-x version PowerMacs have different reports on WD drives... who knows.

    My thoughts are still with Seagate and Maxtor, but there are some folks who dont care for Maxtor, and they only offer a 3 year warranty vs. a 5. Guess my money is on the Seagate presently (maybe I buy a Seagate 500 to try out...).
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    Lightbulb

    I posted a review from AMUG on the Sonnet PCIe, good card, but note that it is not going to be bootable. Keep that in mind.

    Also, people that buy the very first units off the assembly line (Duo-Core, Raptor) may want to wait 3-4 months to see what issues surface.

    In the case of WD, I see that Zipzoomfly had a new revision of the 150GB, and the older unit is $275 while new units are $330 for now.

    When I bought my SE/30, it used socket ROM and CPU, later models were not, probably to make it easy to swap units during testing up to the end, and it had its own quarks and "personality." I always advise waiting now as a result, usually a couple months.

    You may remember how Apple had to issue a "couple" firmware upgrades when the G5 came out, how they didn't really have a version of Panther ready yet and had to push it out the door pre-maturely. You get into a "can't test the new OS without the proper hardware; can't get the hardware running w/o an OS" chicken/egg.

    In the end, the first places to look is the Drive Upgrade DB on www.xlr8yourmac.com . *I* haven't seen any concrete proof that a Quad G5 today has trouble. I checked some threads on Apple and came away, "these people don't have Quad, have PCI/PCI-X systems"

    I have seen people who keep having trouble even with drives that normally work for everyone. Either Newegg doesn't handle drives well; they got a bad batch and are trying to unload 'em; the G5 is a lemon, etc.

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    Lightbulb

    I really want to put a nail in the coffin of rumors.

    Also, Maxtor MaxLine IIIs have 5 yrs, while DM10 is 3 yrs. There is also a high capacity DM11 400GB and 500GB out also.

    Someone, please, show me a Quad or even Duo Core G5, and just to be certain, that it was manufactured on or after mm/dd/yy or something. And the model number of the Raptor as there is more than one model and revision.

    We really already had a discussion, which I made "sticky" to keep it on top, covering the WD 150GB - and wanted to keep as much discussion on the drive as possible in that thread.

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    TZ - thanks - the issue on the new Rator has to do with large file transfers causing the (some) G5 to lock up because Apple failed to support some part of the SATA standard on the internal HD controller (per WD). It appears to only happen on very large file transfers.

    My set up is much like yours and I am comfortable with it - fast boot/app drive and a large media drive in the second drive bay. I'm also about ready to purchase my back up gear > sonnet / port multiplier / box & drives.

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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Apple Corps
    - the issue on the new Rator has to do with large file transfers causing the (some) G5 to lock up

    because Apple failed to support some part of the SATA standard on the internal HD controller (per WD). It appears to only happen on very large file transfers.
    And it affected a Quad G5 owner?

    It isn't just Apple. It also affects some PC's (I think NVIDA?) which you can find mention of in Storage Review forum if you look (they have one really long 5 page thread!) on 15GB file transfers.
    _________________
    WD 150GB Raptor

    This new model, named WD1500AD, will have a storage capacity of 150GB, 16MB of cache and will be compatible with SATA II format.
    WD1500AD (WD1500ADFD) = Server version
    Raptor X WD1500AH (WD1500AHFD) = Gamer version

    WD FAQ:
    "The Apple G5 tower does not support certain standard Serial ATA interface protocols used by the WD4000YR, WD4000KD, WD1500AHFD, and WD1500ADFD hard drives resulting in an interface lock-up. This causes the computer system to hang. The only work-around we have identified at this time is installing a SATA Host Bus Adapter (controller card), effectively circumventing the on-board interface." WD FAQ: Apple G5
    StorageReview WD Raptor 10K 150
    4th iteration of the 74GB Raptor compared to other drives Storage Review Raptor

    * AYM Drive Upgrade DB *
    Onboard G5 SATA Problem report - AYM

    WD Knowledge Base FAQ
    Is my Apple G5 Tower compatible with the WD4000YR, WD4000KD, WD1500AHFD, and WD1500ADFD hard drives?

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    Lightbulb Comparing 500GB Hitachi to WD150

    From the Drive DB:
    Comments: Powermac G5 dual 2ghz rev 2, 3.5 gig memory, OS X 10.4.4

    I swapped my bootdisk from a Hitachi deskstar 500gig to a Western Digital Raptor 150. So far, no problem.

    Itunes 6.02 Hitachi 16s Western digital 12s
    Final cut pro 5 Hitachi 40s Western digital 14s
    DVD studio pro 4 Hitachi 35s Western digital 24s
    Safari Hitachi 4s Western digital 2s
    Photoshop CS2 Hitachi 20s Western digital 14s
    Boot Hitachi 74s Western digital 66s
    Seems like Raptor, hands down

    One person that had trouble was using 2.7DP PCI-X (like kaye's) and wouldn't work on-board (kaye uses his on SeriTek). Someone else found that having 6 internal drives was finally more than his 2.0DP rev 1 could take.

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    Default caution

    I have followed and researched this to death with several phone calls to WD as well as Apple.

    Its a known problem, with known consequences.

    http://discussions.apple.com/thread....30927&#1430927

    Please see RPG's thread (funny, my initials, but not me!)... The trouble starts about halfway down the page. PCI-e, PCI-X and PCI PowerMacs... I have even read the iMac G5 cannot take the newer WD drives. Yes, it is a problem.

    My data will be held elsewhere.

    TZ, you keep commenting there is a newer Raptor 150. I do not believe this is correct, there is a clear cover Raptor 150, called the X model. It has the same guts and same specifications (as well as same problems) as the original Raptor 150. And yes, it retails for $50 more.
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    TZ & rguising - not sure if any Quad users have posted - my eyes are starting to cross as a result of all the treads I'm tracking down :-0

    Another thought I just had is to move some of my "tier 2" applications onto my other internal drive and give it some more time.

    Never in my wildest dreams did I envision such a simple addition to become such a "pita" issue.

    Or, I may just play it safe and go the Seagate (SSC not active) or Hitachi route.

    Also - I did catch myself spinning my wheels on what drive works best. Been there before on some auto forums as to which engine oil will perform best. 99.5% of the benefit was from regular oil and filter changes - brand was really not that critical. HD are not exactly the same but.........

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    Lightbulb

    The people moaning and having trouble on that Apple thread - are using PCI-X G5s. So we know that is not going to work. Nothing there, except praise for its performance.

    Maybe I'm wrong to say there is a "new" Raptor, but I don't think so.
    Looking Western Digital we see that there is

    WD Raptor 10K 150GB 16MB cache 101257-1 $339.00

    and, the "original" revision 101257 that came out Dec 2005 and selling for $272.

    So, WD may have updated model, new firmware, new revison. Maxtor has had 7 updated revisions of the DM10 since it came out in just over a year.

    I have not used the Raptor 150 in the Quad as it was just too expensive when I can get the same write speed from the Maxtor Maxline III 7V300F0 for less than half the price and twice the capacity, but there are some Quad users out there using the Raptor 150 on a Quad.

    The guys at hardmac.com say:
    "We know, however, that the Raptor 150 works fine in a G5 Quad, which leads us to believe that Apple has solved this issue on these machines."
    http://www.hardmac.com/news/2006-02-22/#5163

    And I know barefeats is using a Raptor 150 in his Quad too.
    _____________________
    If you want an alternate to the Raptor, I would go with 300GB Maxtor, not 500GB Hitachi. There is also the "Turbo" series of the Hitachi 7K250 and 7K500 (won't be out for months though).

    The only downside I see is $340 for 150GB drive. About what an Atlas 10K V costs (they also have 74GB for $172, and 15K II for $386. i.e., if you already had all the SCSI components it would be SCSI all the way for me, except.... you need UL5D (and there is no UL5S).

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    I have 4 of the WD1500ADFD 150GB. The two most recently purchased have a different firmware version than the two first purchased. Performance wise, they are the same so I cannot tell what the difference is. k

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    I run 2 x WDC WD1500ADFD-00NLR0 Revision: 19.06P19 in my Quad with- as far as I can tell- no issues at all.

    I was able to test aggregate file transfers of 88GB- no problems.
    The largest single files I could test were just under 10GB a piece. And again- I had no issues at all when transferring large amounts of them.

    I have not yet attempted a single volume stripe of those 2 150GB Raptors- I know one of the posters in that Apple discussions thread said they were unable to even make a RAID volume from their 2 150GB Raptors, but I doubt I will have any problems- formatting these 2 drives as normal volumes was uneventful....

    I was looking hard at the 10.4.6 update but didn't see anything about SATA drivers or the 4GB+ RAM issue for Photoshop. After I install I'll check the SATA driver version...I believe the current one is 1.0.4f2 from August of '05.

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