Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 40 of 40

Thread: Photoshop quitting or system crashing

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Under the Midnight Sun
    Posts
    656

    Default If you can narrow down the AHT you need

    Quote Originally Posted by Boots
    Researching this, it looks like you want Apple Hardware Test 1.2.7 if you have to order one.
    I have most them available.... will check thread tomorrow.
    MacBook Pro Uni 2.4GHz with express card slot

    iMac G5

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    15

    Default

    when trying to boot off the AHT cd it went right to the system. Looks like I need to order the newer version of this software. In the meantime, how do I determine which ram chip has the odd time? and when I remove it do I need to reconfigure the remaining ram chips?

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    1,010

    Default

    Re the AHT cd: Did you try restarting and holding the Option key bringing you into the Startup Manager?

    The 30330 stick is currently located in slot "J21". The stick may even have a label on it with those numbers describing it as such. And I believe the slots themselves will be labeled. At the moment I cannot find a picture with slot labels... Rob may have one and I think Kaye might also when he gets back.
    I think for now, you can leave the other modules where they are.

    Memory:

    DIMM0/J21:

    Size: 512 MB
    Type: DDR SDRAM
    Speed: PC2600U-30330


    DIMM1/J22:

    Size: 512 MB
    Type: DDR SDRAM
    Speed: PC2600U-25330

    DIMM2/J23:

    Size: 512 MB
    Type: DDR SDRAM
    Speed: PC2600U-25330

    DIMM3/J20:

    Size: 256 MB
    Type: DDR SDRAM
    Speed: PC2600U-25330

    It occurs to me the other thing we need to verify is the connection position of the Seagate ATA hard drive on the ribbon cable. Because it works specifically with "Cable Select Mode"- and there is only one hard drive on that bus, it needs to be connected to the proper connector and the drive's jumpers must be set to "Cable Select Mode"

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    7,056

    Default

    Sorry, late to this thread. Yes, you need AHT v1.2.7. When the MDD first appeared, everybody got a version that the MDD could not use. Louie, who used to moderate on this forum, created such a stink over the issue that Apple finally got to work on it and sent him a CD that would work. Later, Apple issued this document and I printed up the doc and went to my local Apple Store and to the Genius Bar. The Genius called Apple and ordered the correct version, no charge. Came on a CD. My MDD was still under warranty however. But would have cost me about $15, still a very worthwhile investment.

    The physical order of those RAM slots looks like this (I'm trying to do this from memory):

    CPU heatsink
    J21
    J22
    J23
    J20
    AGP slot (video card)

    Seems crazy why the physical order does not start with J20. The slots are numbered on the motherboard but I have to use a flashlight and magnifying glass to see them. My recollection is that TZ and I determined that just starting with J21 and filling the RAM slots J22, J23, and finally J20 would do it. Largest size RAM sticks in J21, J22, J23, then J20.

    When my mobo went belly up, the Genius removed all of the RAM and put the OEM stick in J21 (a 512MB module which I had in J20), pretty much confirming that you start with J21. He also had anti-static bags for each stick and before filling the bags, grounded them all to the power supply before putting the sticks in the bags. I was impressed.

    It does sound as if one or more of the RAM sticks is bad or intermittently bad. Sometimes electronics if cold such as first startup in the morning can be OK. As the computer warms up and the sticks warm up, something can go wrong. I do the AHT or a memory test from a cold start, then as the test goes on, the sticks warm up and you get a better memory test. In the case of the AHT, you also get a better test of all the hardware. k

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    212

    Confused

    Verrriii interrresting advice & observations, Kaye...

    Not much I can add here, I'm afraid. The test version for my DP 1.25MHz MDD is 2.1.4... Didn't find anything wrong, as reported. The Tecchie in the shop, with -I believe- more sophisticated test tools, couldn't find the source of the troubles either. Was let in on the fact that I probably got a LEMON, however. Had been in for repairs 5 times, this' the 6th... Neither 'expercom' the vendor, nor Apple Care's Helper had informed me about that. The 'genius' at the Apple store, where I had an appointment originally, was stressed out to the point of nasty. No one else to turn to, everyone was busy to the max. Ipods & accessories seemed to be the main focus, even at the 'genius bar'. Perhaps they should seperate that into a section for computers and another one for the 'rest'... Anyhow, I decided to go look for help elsewhere.

    Guess, Dr. TZ had a point when he remarked that he doesn't trust 'refurbs'.
    Since Ur crashes don't just involve PhShp but also sometimes occur in Safari, I'd tend to speculate on a sick mobo. Though Ram might still be the one & only issue..?

    Let's hope.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    212

    Wink

    Say, what ever happened to Ur 'cart' Mr. Push..?
    It's kinda frustrating, U know, for those who participated in a thread, trying to help, not to hear whether or not there has been a fix to whichever trouble.

    I'd like to add that I got my MDD back from one of the few remaining, really professional Apple retailers/repair service providers in my region. Took almost 2 weeks because the source of trouble was soo hard to detect. In the end, they exchanged the mobo. Still test-running the unit...

    Thanks, Kaye & Dr. TZ, for suggesting 'memtest'..! What Apple's HWT could not detect, not even after loop after loop after loop, 'memtest' detected rather quickly... I seem to have 1 sick stick; Block Sequential; "testing 52 of 256FAILURE:"... etc. Then had to go by way of elimination. One apparently healthy module got an "sok" in the 'bit flip' dept. instead of an "ok", as did all the others... But that doesn't appear to be a problem. Or is it..? Will run the computer all day now with only the 'good' sticks.

    Wait & see...

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Sorry for the delayed response. I appreciate all the feedback. I waited a couple days for the mac admin at my work to get me a copy of AHT that was compatible with my machine. Finally got it and tried it tonight. It is Not compatible..so frustrated. he also didn't seem to think it was the ram but I am hoping it is because that is an inexpensive fix. I have been avoiding ram intensive programs in the meantime [adobe CS Suite]. On the weekend, I may try to remove the ram chip with the odd time and see if it will run fine. Just want to make sure I can remove it and not have to move anything around to fill the gap. I will read back through the thread before I do this. I don't feel like taking the time to order and wait for AHT. I do not have Tech tools but that was suggested to me also. Would that find issues with the ram?

    Thanks

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    212

    Default

    Get 'memtest'..!

    It's an easy & free download. I couldn't believe my eyes when the test quickly got down to the fact that one of my sticks was not good. After that U have to zoom in by way of elimination.

    Definitely will try to buy something from them. Or to make a contribution for the free sw.

    Glad to see U didn't 'pissapear' entirely from this FORUM.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Okay I downloaded Memtest. Command S when booting got me to the command line [Root#]. Followed their instructions
    /Applications/memest/memtest all 3 -L and hit return as instructed. Didn't work. I think it said unknown directory. Tried this a few times.

    Other option was to launch from a finder window which would run it in Terminal. I did this and the test started running in terminal. All the test lines started with "FAILURE..."

    This is the last two lines of the test


    *** Address Test Failed *** One or more DIMM address lines are non-functional.
    *** Memory Test Failed *** Please check transcript for details.

    Can't find the "transcript" of this test anywhere.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    212

    Wink

    Hm... Either Ur sticks are all bad or U didn't follow installation guidelines.

    Dr. TZ would be Ur man, here... But where is he..?

    I simply let the sw install itself on my HD. U should then get a bunch of folders; user's guide, etc... U can read those, as I did, briefly, but it's real simple. After booting, click on the memtest ICON, a grayish box, then the 'memtest' page should open on Ur screen. Just let it run. As the test progresses, the page will fill up with all the relevant info. All 'Chinese' to me...

    As I said, I then just went by their guidelines... Once it had become clear, only from the one single line "block sequential", that one stick might not be up to par, I removed 2, repeated the test, etc. Until I had it down to the "sicko", which I then removed. Last test showed no Ram trouble. Except for that one "sok" instead of "ok"... No idea what it may mean.

    Hang in there!

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    1,010

    Default

    Okay I downloaded Memtest. Command S when booting got me to the command line [Root#]. Followed their instructions
    /Applications/memest/memtest all 3 -L and hit return as instructed. Didn't work. I think it said unknown directory. Tried this a few times.
    Did you install memtest at /Applications? Or did you install it there and then move it to a new directory location? Did you rename the memtest folder to something else? Sorry if these are stupid questions, but if you used the default installation of memtest, that path in the instructions should work.

    In fact, the current memtest installer does not allow a 'custom' install location. It has to be installed in /Applications. If you want to locate it elsewhere you have to first install at /Applications and then move it to a different directory location.

    It is usually better to run memtest booted in Single User Mode, rather than in the normal user space, but it is starting to sound like there are problems with your RAM...


    I waited a couple days for the mac admin at my work to get me a copy of AHT that was compatible with my machine. Finally got it and tried it tonight. It is Not compatible..so frustrated.
    When you say not compatible- did you get from your SA guy AHT 1.2.7? That is the version you need for that computer. It should say right on the cd in small type. Or are you saying you tried booting to AHT 1.2.7 and the computer would not boot to the cd or holding the Option key during the boot process would not bring you to the Startup manager and a selectable and bootable Apple Hardware Test?

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    1,010

    Default

    On the weekend, I may try to remove the ram chip with the odd time and see if it will run fine. Just want to make sure I can remove it and not have to move anything around to fill the gap. I will read back through the thread before I do this. I don't feel like taking the time to order and wait for AHT. I do not have Tech tools but that was suggested to me also. Would that find issues with the ram?
    Please be sure to follow appropriate ESD (Electro-Static Discharge) precautions and proper handling procedures when you remove the RAM for testing.

    Here's an excellent primer on the subject.

    TechToolPro4 may be a solution; I've never found it to be much help though in serious hardware diagnostics. You're probably a lot better off with AHT and memtest. Though you could boot to a TTP4 cd, and it will test hardware, it must be the very latest version to safely work with Tiger.

    As wolfpweb has said, memtest often finds a problem (if there is a problem) with RAM very quickly. The issue then is determining which module the problem belongs to.
    On the other hand, Apple Hardware Test will tell you which module has a problem- if it finds one. However, AHT may or may not find a RAM problem on the first pass. That is why it is advisable to run it in Loop Mode (Control + L before selecting Extended Test).
    And AHT is not foolproof either; it has been known to miss problems eventually diagnosed using other means. But all in all, it's very much worth having the cd because it does it's job well most of the time.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    212

    Thumbs up

    U have a great point, Boots, when U mention that AHT has a tuff time with Ram-diagnosis... Even after several loops it would not detect what 'memtest' found after only the basic test, which took little more than an hour.

    Because the MDD system still has 'weird' issues, even after getting the mobo replaced, I ran another 'memtest' this morning. Everything came through fine.
    Except, again, a 'weirdo' under 'bit flip'... This time got "tok" where it read "sok" previously... Hm, probably dealing with a sw glitch here.

    Back to work!

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Did you install memtest at /Applications? Or did you install it there and then move it to a new directory location? Did you rename the memtest folder to something else?

    yes, I did the default installation which placed it in the Applications folder. read the supporting documentation..two ways to run boot with command S which did not work or double click the application which runs it in terminal. The latter is how I ran it with inconclusive results [mentioned above]

    AHT disk from my admin[or rather his associate] no version number on the Cd. Command info shows no version number [really strange] and it is Apple i.e. not a copy. So althought i told him I need 1.2.7 I am thinking he just dug up what he could find. His group services about 300+ macs, they do not use AHT...can't remember how they run diagnostics but they keep some of this software on file. Although at work there are mainly G5s there are still a lot of older G4s including mirrored doors so they Should have this version but he had supposedly found it. It did not work for me and I could not verify it was the right version.

    This weekend is going to be busy. I am a little undecided about removing the ram until i can verify that that is the problem. i may order AHT if they still sell that version? Is there a newer version [2.0.1??]that would also be not compatible? The admin said it does not catch everything but as you suggest the loop is the way to go. Maybe i will try macmall. Are there any other sharewares besides memtest?

    One note the admin said is that in each start up the system checks the ram. He is hoping it is not the MOB based on the kernel panics he definitely thinks it is hardware.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    15

    Default

    downloaded "rember" the gui for memtest and ran it overnight with the same results as running it in terminal. Any idea what possible bad address means?


    BEGINNING OF TEST

    Running 3 test sequences...

    Test sequence 1 of 3:
    Stuck Address : setting 1 of 16 testing 1 of 16FAILURE: possible bad address line at offset 0x0d016c97.
    Skipping to next test...
    Random Value : \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - \ | / - FAILURE: 0x6bff792f != 0x2bff792f at offset 0x00962e97.





    END OF TEST

    FAILURE: 0x00000001 != 0x68000001 at offset 0x043935e9.
    FAILURE: 0x00000001 != 0x68000001 at offset 0x043935ed.
    FAILURE: 0x00000001 != 0x29000001 at offset 0x043935f1.
    FAILURE: 0x00000001 != 0x61000001 at offset 0x043935f5.
    FAILURE: 0x00000001 != 0x68000001 at offset 0x043935f9.
    FAILURE: 0x00000001 != 0x60000001 at offset 0x043935fd.

    *** Address Test Failed *** One or more DIMM address lines are non-functional.
    *** Memory Test Failed *** Please check transcript for details.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    212

    Angry

    Oh 'Boy'...

    Means what it means. I had 'failure' for only one single line. U've got plenty.
    I'd say, remove all Ur sticks, borrow or buy 1 of quality - see what happens. If Ur G4 runs without crashing, U're a lucky winner. Ram is cheaper than a new mobo...

    However, now that we know that some (or all) of Ur Ram is bad, why not run AHT; Ram specific..? Un-click all the other tests, jut leave the one for Ram. That'll save U time & might help zoom in on whichever sticks are at fault.

    It's tough, sometimes. Frustrating & time consuming.

    I know all'bout it...

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    1,010

    Default

    The physical order of those RAM slots looks like this (I'm trying to do this from memory):

    CPU heatsink
    J21
    J22
    J23
    J20
    AGP slot (video card)

    Seems crazy why the physical order does not start with J20. The slots are numbered on the motherboard but I have to use a flashlight and magnifying glass to see them. My recollection is that TZ and I determined that just starting with J21 and filling the RAM slots J22, J23, and finally J20 would do it. Largest size RAM sticks in J21, J22, J23, then J20.
    Hi pushcart1111-

    At this point, I would start testing the RAM systematically by removing all the modules and then testing one module at a time with memtest or rember.

    Be sure to install the module to be tested in slot J21 (furthest from the AGP card).

    If you are not used to working inside your computer, just take your time- set up your work area and plan your moves out ahead of time, and minimize walking around during the process.

    Also- please be sure to follow appropriate ESD precautions; it is a good idea to leave the computer plugged in but turned off while you remove or install a RAM module. Frequently touch the outside of the PCI slot covers for insurance.

    If you call Apple, you can order the correct AHT cd (1.2.7) and have them ship it to you pretty quick. It really is a good idea to have it on hand.

    As you've discovered, working on files while the G4 has bad RAM in it can lead to file corruption; I would try to minimize working on important stuff until you solve this problem.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Thanks so much for all of your input. Have spent the good part of the day systematically checking the ram. First I removed two, left two. still got failure... Then I remove one and left one.finally I had a completely successful test- yeah! Now I needed to determine if it was bad ram or a bad slot, so I took the good ram that just tested fine and tested it in the "potentially" bad slot. tested fine. Next I tested one of the originals i took out in one of the two slots I knew were good, tested fine, more of the same types of tests keeping track of each individual stick of ram, original location etc... The last test was all the ram back in minus the suspected bad ram...tested fine. Based on these tests i strongly feel that the one ram stick in particular [that had been in the J23 position] is bad.

    I am going to go on that assumption and work with the remaining ram for now, really put it up against some heavy photoshop work etc...

    If you do not hear from me, no news is good news. Thanks for the Memtest advice..it worked great!!

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    1,010

    Default

    Good work, pushcart!

    Let us know if you need help with anything else.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    NW Montana
    Posts
    8,197

    Thumbs up Great job

    I been watching from the sidelines. Between mostly the 3 of you this is a great example of how this site should work.

    pushcart1111 - Very very nice - hanging in and not tossing in the towel. Many people won't realize or believe people like Boots, TZ about the problems that a bad RAM stick can cause. Then people leave frustrated and with a problem still there but you stuck it out. - Randy

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •