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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    25

    Default G4 Random Freezes And Crashes

    I have a G4 (466) digital audio + GIGA DESIGN UPGRADE 1.2 that has been giving random freezes or crashes since I got it.

    I also have a G4 500 AGP that is working perfectly.

    I have the exact same software installation in both computer.

    The peripheral hardware used are also pretty much the same.

    Extension conflict is not the problem, tech tool tests all passed.

    The machine can work a few days fine.

    Sometimes the computer won't boot on the 1st attempt,
    Sometimes the finder quits and reboot by itself.
    Sometimes an application will simply quit.
    Sometimes it'll just freeze.
    N.B.(this behavior was present before the giga upgrade)

    WHAT CAN BE WRONG WITH THIS MACHINE?

    Any help appreciated...



    Mac OS overview
    Finder: 9.2
    System: 9.2.2 US
    Active enabler: None
    QuickTime: 6.0.3
    CarbonLib: 1.6.1
    File sharing: is off
    Multiple Users: 1.4.1

    Memory overview
    Disk cache: 512K
    Virtual memory: is off
    Built-in memory: 1.50 GB
    Number of empty RAM slots: 1 (DIMM3/J24)
    PC133 CL3
    Location Size Memory type
    DIMM0/J21 512 MB SDRAM
    DIMM1/J22 512 MB SDRAM
    DIMM2/J23 512 MB SDRAM
    Backside L2 cache: 2 MB

    Hardware overview
    Machine ID: 406
    Model name: Power Mac G4
    Keyboard type: Apple USB Keyboard
    Attributes: Low power mode disabled because of PCI cards in slots: SLOT-4
    Processor info: GIGA DESIGN UPGRADE
    Machine speed: 1200 MHz


    Network overview
    Ethernet built-in
    Link: up Speed: 100 Mbps Duplex: full

    Modem
    Name:
    Protocol:
    Version:
    Status: No Apple modem found.
    Open Transport
    Installed: Yes
    Active: Yes
    Version: 2.7.9
    AppleTalk
    Installed: Yes
    Active: No
    Version: Not available
    TCP/IP
    Installed: Yes
    Active: Yes
    Version: 2.7.9
    Personal Web Sharing: is off
    Multihoming: is off
    USB Printer Sharing: Not running (v1.0.2)

    Internal ATA 2
    ID = 0
    Hard drive
    Driver version: 3.2.8
    Mac OS partitions: 3
    Removable media: No
    Vendor: Maxtor
    Revision number: DA620XS0
    Product ID: 52732U6
    Serial number: K60A0W7C
    Size: 27.40 GB (1K = 1000)
    Capacity: 25.53 GB (1K = 1024)

    SYSTEM
    Volume format: Mac OS Extended (HFS+)
    Capacity: 4.88 GB
    Available: 607.82 MB
    Percent full: 87
    Write protected: No
    Is being file shared: No

    PROGRAM
    Volume format: Mac OS Extended (HFS+)
    Capacity: 8.93 GB
    Available: 877.33 MB
    Percent full: 90
    Write protected: No
    Is being file shared: No

    AUDIO
    Volume format: Mac OS Extended (HFS+)
    Capacity: 11.71 GB
    Available: 2.12 GB
    Percent full: 81
    Write protected: No
    Is being file shared: No

    Internal ATA 2
    ID = 1
    Hard drive
    Driver version: 3.2.8
    Mac OS partitions: 2
    Removable media: No
    Vendor: Maxtor
    Revision number: NAR61590
    Product ID: 6E030L0
    Serial number: E17JKDZE
    Size: 30.73 GB (1K = 1000)
    Capacity: 28.63 GB (1K = 1024)

    PROGRAM2
    Volume format: Mac OS Extended (HFS+)
    Capacity: 20.76 GB
    Available: 1.97 GB
    Percent full: 90
    Write protected: No
    Is being file shared: No

    AUDIO2
    Volume format: Mac OS Extended (HFS+)
    Capacity: 7.87 GB
    Available: 689.91 MB
    Percent full: 91
    Write protected: No
    Is being file shared: No

    Internal ATA 0
    ID = 0
    DVD-R/DVD-RAM/CD-RW
    Driver version: 1.4.7
    Mac OS partitions: 0
    Removable media: Yes
    Vendor: HL-DT-ST
    Revision number: A102
    Product ID: DVDRAM GSA-4163B
    Apple disc burning: Supported

    No mounted media inserted

    SCSI Bus 0
    ID = 0
    Hard drive
    Driver version: 8.1.4
    Mac OS partitions: 1
    Removable media: No
    Vendor: QUANTUM
    Revision number: A05.
    Product ID: FIREBALLlct0
    Serial number: 8292
    Size: 4.30 GB (1K = 1000)
    Capacity: 4 GB (1K = 1024)

    DRIVE#2
    Volume format: Mac OS Extended (HFS+)
    Capacity: 4 GB
    Available: 2.64 GB
    Percent full: 34
    Write protected: No
    Is being file shared: No


    PCI
    SLOT-1 (AGP)
    Display card
    Card type: display
    Card name: ATI,Rage128Pd
    Card model: ATI,Rage128Pro
    Card ROM #: 113-72701-130
    Card revision: 0
    Card vendor ID: 1002
    VRAM size: 16 MB

    Display
    Screen Size (pixels): 1024 x 768
    Grays/Colors: Thousands
    Resolution (dpi): 72 x 72
    Additional Information: Main screen

    PCI SLOTS:
    SLOT-4
    PCI Slot
    Card type: Not available
    Card name: pci137a,1
    Card model: -1
    Card ROM #: Not available
    Card revision: 10
    Card vendor ID: 137A
    Ethernet address:

    SLOT-5
    SCSI card
    Card type: scsi
    Card name: UltraTek100+
    Card model: PDC20268
    Card ROM #: 3.2.5
    Card revision: 2
    Card vendor ID: 105A
    Ethernet address:

    SLOT-2
    Display card
    Card type: display
    Card name: ATI,XCLAIM_LTPro
    Card model: ATI,LT-C
    Card ROM #: 113-54104-103
    Card revision: 220
    Card vendor ID: 1002
    VRAM size: 8 MB

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    NW Montana
    Posts
    8,197

    Default Give this a shoot.

    Copied from a biggles post because I am slacking here... Backup? This can't hurt and by luck might flush some corruption out.
    Try booting into Open Firmware. If it will, reset nvram as described below.

    Restart the G4 and hold down the 4 keys Command-Option-o-f until the command line screen appears. At the prompt type;

    reset-nvram (return)

    set-defaults (return)

    reset-all (return)

    The Mac should now restart.

    Let us know what gives.
    Randy

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    NW Montana
    Posts
    8,197

    Default

    So this is random? Nothing special that "always freaks it"?

    Make sure the Processor, RAM, Video, other PCI cards all seated really good. Check the cables especially near the doors for small pin holes, pinches. Is it dirty? Good to clean dust bunnies now and then. The fans, air intake/output opening. Cards, memory slots etc. - Randy

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    1hr N/W of LA LA Land
    Posts
    3,318

    Default

    SYSTEM
    Volume format: Mac OS Extended (HFS+)
    Capacity: 4.88 GB
    Available: 607.82 MB
    Percent full: 87
    Write protected: No
    Is being file shared: No
    That looks like it could cause problems to me. Nearly full drives are bad news especially for the OS. Any chance you could free up some space on there or re-partition?

    Random crashes/freezes also suggest bad RAM, or an unstable (too hot/fast?) processor.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    on the landline, Mr. Smith
    Posts
    7,787

    Default

    All good points to check out so far.

    I would do the open firmware reset for sure, and maybe replace the battery. Problems with either might cause the "will not boot on the 1st attempt", and other strangeness.

    Bad RAM is one of the most common causes of crashes and panics, so needs to be looked at really closely and tested too.
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Mobius Strip
    Posts
    13,045

    Lightbulb

    To test RAM, use Memtest. TTP won't find bad RAM. iTunes is also very sensitive or intolerant of marginal RAM.

    Do some deep cleaning of cache folders - Applejack or your utility of choice. Applejack is very safe. Also can check for corrupt plists, and remove swap files.

    For the boot volume, 8GB+ free space (more if you use iDVD), and 50-65% free is my rule of thumb. I use about 1/3 of the volume.
    Put /Users on another disk drive is my preference (not on the same IDE bus though).
    I've tried using another drive for 3rd party applications, it didn't help as much as just using one drive for OS/apps.
    Partitions on the same drive that are active (not just static storage) cause more seeks, latency, and work which hurts performance.

    Upgrade disk drives definitely. Why the Quantum 4.5GB drive? they are slow, hot. Just something to look at. Update the disk drives to something larger and with 8MB cache.

    Way too full on some of those partitions. Especially for OS X. And it hurts performance, can result in the partition losing its directory, and with that, your files.

    I would upgrade video card pronto to Radeon 9000/9600/9800. The Rage cards don't off-load or help OS X enough which puts more work on cpu.
    Last edited by TZ; 09-19-2005 at 08:38 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
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    Lightbulb

    Drop your system file on ResEdit or do a check/verify of it.
    I'll bet it will say it needs minor repairs or something.
    Only way to repair is to work on a copy. I use to keep a good copy around all the time.
    Copy your system file somewheres, or boot from another drive.

    Have you even tried using Conflict Catcher? it will report if an extension uses more memory than it requests.
    Or a clean system install?
    Some extensions are "appe" mini apps and you can also give them more memory. Same with control panels that also sometimes need more than defaults.

    OS 9 was a pain eventually that I couldn't want to walk away from.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Well, finally got an apple hardware test cd!
    Reports:
    Logic board Error detected
    Error code
    SCC/3/7

    Does it needs to have the logic board replaced?
    If so, where to get it?
    And thanks again!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Under the Midnight Sun
    Posts
    656

    Default hate to chime in...

    If you have a DA / or QS logic board failure, then your options are limited ... Ebay usually has one or two for sale between $100-$200... most likely closer to $200 with shipping.

    An Apple Retail board / Repair is out of the question of course.

    I would be tempted to think hard about parting out the system and going with a fresh Intel Mini, but thats opinion only... and it depends what Software you currently have and what you intend to use the system for in the future.

    If you take your $200 (most likely for the logic board), the value of the Giga upgrade on the used market (~$200?) you are already near 70% of a brand new machine with warranty, Tiger and iLife 06.
    MacBook Pro Uni 2.4GHz with express card slot

    iMac G5

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    NW Montana
    Posts
    8,197

    Default

    dcmix

    Which Apple hardware test version did you use? I am wondering about a few things on a recently purchased "used" DA/533 I have. I have my QSer's AHT CD. It would feel nice to have my hardware test good. - Randy

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    1hr N/W of LA LA Land
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    3,318

    Default

    Too bad Minis can't boot 9 eh?

    The thing that turns me off on the Minis is the I/O options. In order to do serious audio on one you end up using FW for audio I/O, and fast storage simultaniously. Sure it can be done, but I just don't trust it as much as PCI. Too much voodoo.

    I don't know what that AHT error code means, but a WAG tells me it has to do with the memory subsystem. Bad slot? Whacked-out controller?

    I think I'd do some more hardware experimenting before I threw in the towel, but I'm masochistic like that somtimes.

    You can get used OS9 booting G4s pretty cheap these days if you keep your eyes peeled. I've seen a few on craigslist lately that were very tempting.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Which Apple hardware test version did you use?
    Version 1.1

    Will try to do more testings...

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