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Thread: B&W G3 Dead after processor upgrade

  1. #1
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    Smile B&W G3 Dead after processor upgrade

    I bought a Powerlogix G3 1.0 Ghz ZIF upgrade processor for my B&W 400mhz G3. After following the directions and installing the new processor, my computer started up a few times but eventually crashed after about 10-15 seconds. After trying several restarts, I decided to put the old processor back in (my hopes were that it would work and then I could try redoing the entire process again). The computer went through the initial phase of the startup process (customary chime, apple logo) and then the screen went blank. It stayed that way for some time (5-10 mins). At that point, I decided to restart the computer, after which nothing happened. No chime, no video on the screen. Power was going to the computer itself (the hard drives powered up, the light for the DVD drive comes on but never goes off, etc) but it never initiated the startup process.

    I've tried remomving the PRAM battery and installing it after 10 mins, resetting the CUDA switch (holding it down for 30 seconds), reseating the processor and none of that has any effect. After looking on apple's website, I read that if both DS7 and DS8 led's are lit or off at the same time, the logic board is ok (not sure if this matters, but I thought I'd add the info).

    I've also tried unplugging all unnecessary drives, PCI cards, RAM (moving to a diffreent slot as well) and nothing.

    I'm running Mac OS X Tiger (or it was running )

    I have a "ticket" in with the Powerlogix support team, but have yet to hear anything from them.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Lightbulb

    Check the zip pins. There is a jumper on the bottom to set the ratio. You either need the latest PL 2.1 CPU Director for Tiger 10.4.2, or just set the jumpers.

    RAM. Make sure you have 8 ns SDRAM or faster (all matched the same speed and CAS Latency is best).

    I assume you've checked the cpu upgrade db -
    www.xlr8yourmac.com and reports section.

    I would boot into Open Firmware and reset nvram as well.

    I have the same 1.0 in my B*W and it did have two slightly bent pins, but works fine. But PL still seems to be "hit or miss" for some. I seem to remember that I had to modify the "clip" on the zif to get it to fit properly, otherwise it wasn't sitting properly. Cleaning any residue from the heat sink first and applying only a small dab of arctic silver should be fine.

    Which cache enabling software if any?
    Safe Boot?

  3. #3
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    The problem is, now my old processor (the original one) doesn't work at all. And I have no video, so would I still be able to boot into firmware?

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    Only you can tell us if it boots into OPEN Firmware or not. A good first step no matter what you do when changing PCI cards and cpu.

    I would carefully check everything.

    Without knowing which video card, whether rev 1 or 2.

    Take a look at the PL ZIF. you might want to change the jumpers on it.

  5. #5
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    My computer won't boot at all.

  6. #6
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    Try booting into Open Firmware. It may not, but either way it starts the troubleshooting. If it will, reset nvram as described below.

    Restart the Smurf and hold down the 4 keys Command-Option-o-f until the command line screen appears. At the prompt type;

    reset-nvram (return)

    set-defaults (return)

    reset-all (return)

    The Mac should now restart.

    Let us know what gives.
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  7. #7
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    It won't boot into Open Firmware. Any other ideas?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfaigle
    It won't boot into Open Firmware. Any other ideas?
    Was that with the stock CPU, the PL upgrade, or both?

    Ideas? Sorry, not yet. Did you check each ZIF for bent pins?
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  9. #9
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    Neither the stock CPU or the PL upgrade will boot. The pins are not bent.

  10. #10
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    Here's a link to the B&W Service Source manual.

    It should take you straight to a 10MB download, so you might want to ctrl-click the link and "Download Linked File". There are extensive troubleshooting procedures in the manual.

    B&W G3 Manual
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  11. #11
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    ... did you check the dip switches under the zif to see what they are set to?
    dip switch settings to manually set ratio
    And did you install CPU Director prior to installing the zif or not? and which version?

    Mine came with zero documentation. downloaded it from PL but no help. complained to PL about lack of manual and piss-poor packaging, that had been mentioned though as far back as last fall. Seems they just don't care or OWC doesn't.

    Also, which video card? Radeon 9200? 7000? Any other PCI cards in there? I've done a lot of upgrading on B&W, and some abuse, but never had it not boot. Heck, I'd disconnect the disk drive even and see if it boots Tiger DVD.

    Search for B&W and PL G3 in here:
    http://forums.xlr8yourmac.com/cpureview.lasso
    Lot of helpful ideas from what others went through and problems they ran into.

    PowerMac Blue G3 Dev Notes
    Last edited by TZ; 09-18-2005 at 06:26 AM.

  12. #12
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    They're aren't any jumpers on the ZIF upgrade at all. I think it's managed by CPU director. As for CPU director, I tried to install it, but it wouldn't until I put in the upgrade processor.

    The video card is the original ATI Rage 128.

    My DVD drive won't run at all. At powerup, the green light on the drive lights up and stay's lit until I have to power it down since it won't boot.

    At this point, I just want my original processor to start working again.

  13. #13
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    I assure you, there are dip switches. They are underneath.

    I think you want a Radeon - it helps - if you get it working, and the 9200 helps.

    When it did work, did you check to see what speed it was running?
    CPU Director 2.1 download

    Did you disconnect the disk drives, and just leave the DVD connected?
    Rev 1 or 2? Hopefully you are using a PCI hard drive controller.

    I would unplug it. Pull the battery. Let it sit. Try to boot that way to drain any voltage. Replace battery and power. But leave disk drives disconnected. The first thing I look for is the "bong" and if not, it is probably cpu and not seated fully, good contact in the socket. And anytime you change cpu, you should redo paste. It takes 3-5 days for paste to 'take effect' and you should not use cpu beyond max settings.

    Based on how mine looked, I almost sent it back as "DOA" before using (they tell you to look at the pins etc and to even gently make sure they are straight before installing). It looked 'used' to say the least. but it worked. And worked well.

    Anyway, there are dip switches underneath the zif, they just aren't on top. And are tiny.

    (Unless they have changed in the last month, which I doubt.) The jumper sets a "base" speed which is 500MHz I believe. I never used CPU Director (didn't work with 10.4.2 at the time) and set mine to 12x to get 1000 MHz from it. Been runnng fine for couple months now. Use to be able to use older versions on non-Powerlogix cpus.
    Last edited by TZ; 09-18-2005 at 06:25 AM.

  14. #14
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    When you pulled the battery for 10', did you do that as part of the Resetting the Logic Board procedure? I know that's for the PCI G4, but it's exactly the same with a B&W. The service manual suggests resetting the CUDA chip and resetting the Logic Board, in that order, they are not the same thing.

    Is the battery good? (3.4-3.7v I think).
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  15. #15
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    Lightbulb Forgive me... dip switches!!

    Dh - just woke up and light-bulb, there are no jumpers at all. Just tiny dip switches, that I had to use a magnifying glass.

    Compatibility: CPU Director 2.1 is compatible with Mac OS X 10.2 and later (however some CPUs require specific versions of Mac OS X later than 10.2.) Power management and DFS functions are compatible on PowerLogix-branded CPU cards with appropriate CPUs, and Mac OS X 10.3.9 or later.
    Dynamic Frequency Switching and Power Management
    CPU Director 2.1 download

    CPU Director Feedback
    Powerlogix G3 ZIF Installation
    dip switch settings to manually set ratio
    Search for B&W and PL G3 CPU Upgrades:
    http://forums.xlr8yourmac.com/cpureview.lasso
    Lot of helpful ideas from what others went through and problems they ran into.
    - accelerateyourmac

    PowerMac Blue G3 Dev Notes
    Last edited by TZ; 09-18-2005 at 06:28 AM.

  16. #16
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    Ok, that makes sense then. Unfortunately, I think the switches are on the underside (pin side) of the processor and they are covered by a warranty void sticker. If I remove that, no RMA to Powerlogix or return to OWC to get my money back.

    The CPU director download would be helpful if I could actually get the stock 400mhz CPU to startup. This is my biggest worry right now. Have I fried my original CPU or the logic board?

    The DVD drive won't run at all. The only way I can even open it (other than using a paper-clip which doesn't help since the drive won't actually read anything) is if the power is connected and not the 40 pin gray controller cable.

    I'm not using a PCI hard drive controller. I have 2 new (post 2004) hard drives, but they've worked now (albeit pretty slow for data transfer) for over a year.

    Looked at the reviews etc. on xlr8, but couldn't find my problem in there.

    Also, checked the developer notes (thanks for linking those) but nothing there either.

    Battery is ok.

    I did a full reset of the logic board in the correct order.

  17. #17
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    The link to the review of PL G3 vs Sonnet G4 vs Daystar G4 had step by step on how to properly connect the heat sink clip, pressure, and thermal paste. Done wrong, it could fry a cpu. I would check the clip. It can be put on "backwards" and not be tight enough. The PL ZIF was a tight fit which worried me, especially when I tried it in Beige.

    There was a seal, but not on the dip switches. PL CPU Director 2.1 over-rides those switches. I was concerned with using older version, or whether it would install improperly. I had a heck of a time getting CPU Director to even launch, kept coming up in Apple Script Editor instead. Hadn't used it until now but figured I can't help if I don't do it myself.

    PCI cards help get more out of your drives. Sounds like you much have a rev 2 or you couldn't be using newer drives, let alone slave on the buggy IDE bus.

    I'm out of ideas of what else or why your G3/400 isn't cooperating. Which is why I kept asking about pins. or residue of artic paste on the underside of the aluminum heat sink. A dab of cleaning fluid like rubbing alchohol works well... let it dry, apply fresh silver paste.

    Your original cpu IS OEM and wasn't some OWC Mercury that required any jumper changes? They did sell some and people would try to over-clock their G3. PowerLogix cpu's do not like modifications. I kept having random freezes, not enough that I couldn't work, but in Beige G3 which does have an easy to change set of jumpers (and why I got confused as I spent more time with Beige upgrades than B*W) PL support just convinced me to back it off from 83 MHz bus to 66, and then the 1GHz zif worked flawlessly.

    Some of the early Radeon 9200s (and PC flashed 9100s) did have more problems and issues so I wanted to be sure what video. Heck, I wasted an entire 8-9 hour day with one person when it turned out they had an old SCSI card - in the wrong slot where it wouldn't work (but wasn't causing trouble previously) - but which prevented their B&W from working when they tried using a SeriTek controller. He wasn't using any SCSI devices, didn't think to list full hardware profile without repeated requests. Now, I try to get a list of RAM and everything else before going forward. - So just some background on where I sometimes "come from."

    I would say something about the heat sink and check the zif socket that both cpu's have to fit. The pins on the PL zif are much thinner and easily bent than original or than Daystar's G4. And at my age, I have to use a flashlight and magnifying glass sometimes to make sure. Even to inspect the underside of the ZIF for any imperfection.

  18. #18
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    Wonder if it is time for the voodoo reset.....

    And what about firmware updates? Tricky and confusing with BWs as to what you need, in what order....at least that's the way I remember it.

    Here is some general info to review and verify.

    TZ: What about yanking the CPU and powering up to see if he gets the correct "no CPU" diagnostic tone? G4s do this, but I don't know about G3s... If they do, one could try it with no RAM either, just to see if the self-diagnostic features are working correctly. Can't seem to find the BW manuals at Apple....
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  19. #19
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    There are no firmware updates once you get OS 9 or OS X installed.

    The service manual and Dev Notes links are earlier in the thread.

    I really don't think there is a beep or anything if cpu is a no-go, just the lack of any

    I can't see and yet I think the clip, the underside of the zif, something physical. Even too much residue on the heatsink. Or weak battery.

    it is really hard to diagnose a problem you can't see or touch sometimes.


  20. #20
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    I had the battery checked and it is fine. The heatsink has virtually no residue on it. Would it help if I took a picture of both CPU's and put them in here?

    Also, I just wanted to thank those who have responded to this trying to help me out. I've tried working with the Powerlogix support team, but they are useless. They don't even seem to care about the problem. I'm concerned that if their CPU is fried, they'll blame me and not get me a new one.

    Of course, right now I just want to get my original stock Motorola CPU working again.

    What does a fried CPU look like?

    Also, when starting up, the DS9 LED lights up occasionally. From Apple, I read that if that LED is lighting up, it's requesting info from the bus. Does that mean the CPU is ok? Or not necessarily?

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