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Thread: Drives Will Not Mount

  1. #1
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    Default Firewire Drives Will Not Mount

    Hi all. I've got a blue & white G3 w/256mb of RAM. It has 2 internal SATA drive from Gurus, and they're rock solid. One drive has 10.3.9, the other is the file storage drive, mostly inDesign and Photoshop files. This Mac is strictly used to serve up the files on one of the internal drives, it is not used as a workstation.

    Until today, I had a 200MB Western Digital external Firewire drive as a backup drive. I also had another 200MB WD drive with Firewire AND USB. We had a power outage the other night and now neither of the WD drives will mount via Firewire. I was able to get the combo drive to mount via USB, and the files on it are fine. This drive WAS NOT plugged into the G3 during the power outage, but it will not mount via firewire any longer, just like the other wd fw drive.

    Three questions... first, what the hell happened? Second, how do I get the firewire drive to mount on the G3 again. Third, I think my love affair with Firewire is over. What kind of drives should I be using for my daily backups? I backup to one drive every night, and I have another drive that I keep off site that I back up to once a week. I use Retrospect for backups.
    Thanks in advance,
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobabbate
    Three questions... first, what the hell happened? Second, how do I get the firewire drive to mount on the G3 again. Third, I think my love affair with Firewire is over. What kind of drives should I be using for my daily backups?
    Bob,

    The B&W was the the first Mac with native Firewire ports and they are known to be problematical, so maybe it's a hardware problem. The usual solution to that is a PCI FW host card.

    As for your 3 questions, some thoughts;

    1. The power interrupt may have caused directory damage on the mounted FW drive, rendering it unmountable.

    2. If that's what happened, Disk Utility may see it and you might try to Repair Disk. Disk Warrior (if you have it) is more likely to see it and be able to repair it.

    3. Since you'd really need a PCI FW host card to continue with FW backups, whether or not your native FW ports are hosed, and you already have 2 internal SATA drives, you might consider the SeriTek/1SE2 and add a 2-bay Burly SATA Enclosure. If you don't have a spare PCI slot the 2+2 SATA card could achieve the same result.

    biggles.
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  3. #3
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    Biggles - thanks for your reply. I'd agree that the mounted FW drive my have been damaged, but I'm having the same problem with another FW drive that was not mounted at the time of the power blip. I like the idea of the hotswap SATA enclosures. I'll have to peek inside my G3 to see where we are with available spots to hook 'em up. Would still like to get those FW drives working again though.

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    I just don't know nvram inter-operates with FireWire, so I'm shooting in the dark here. The B&W can't boot from a FireWire volume, but later Mac's can, so FW must be involved in the boot process somewhere, and that somewhere would be nvram I guess. Perhaps a reset of PRAM or an OpenFirmware reset of nvram might help.
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

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    I won't go into why, but B&W FW ports go out on 95% of users eventually. If you don't have a G4 Yikes to G4 PCI that uses similar chip, you will have to use PCI FW, or pull the drives and use them internally. but, because of the size, you'd need PCI ATA controller.

    The ROM and Open Firmware but also the chip that was used in the B&W limit booting. XPostFacto 4.05 may be able to boot from FW, but that would still require a working FW port/chip, which seems to be DOA or fried.

    You can only have one SATA type controller, so the 2+2 would make sense long term: able to boot etc. and put in the 66MHz (short video slot) for best performance as well. You could use a SATA <-> PATA adapter for now if you do go SATA route.

    Can I also interest you - no help now - but to invest in an adequate and reliable UPS - to avoid the potential damage and costs, as well as lost drives etc.

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    Took your advice of a few weeks ago. I purchased the Burly 2-bay hot-swap SATA enclosure and a pair of Seagate 250's. Pulled my SeriTek 2 drive internal card. Installed the SeriTek 2+2. Connected the SATA card to the 2 esixting internal SATA drives (Maxtors, a DiamondMax Plus 9 80GB and a Diamond Max Plus 9 200GB). Tried to start up and got the alternating file folder/Mac symbol a few times, then the grey screen with the Apple logo an the spinner under it. That's it, it wouldn't go any further.

    So, I pulled the 2+2 and reinstalled the original SeriTek card, hooked up the drives to it and tried to start. Success, except that only the 80GB (that's the startup drive) would mount. The 200GB drive does not appear on the desktop any longer. The drive show up in Disk Utility, but it is grayed out.

    What happened? Why didn't my computer work with the 2+2 in it? And most importantly, how do I get my 200GB drive to mount with the original SeriTek card that is now back in the computer?

    Thanks.

  7. #7
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    Confused SATA Drive Will Not Mount!

    I purchased the Burly 2-bay hot-swap SATA enclosure and a pair of Seagate 250's. Pulled my old SeriTek 2 drive internal card. Installed the SeriTek 2+2. Connected the SATA card to the 2 esixting internal SATA drives (Maxtors, a DiamondMax Plus 9 80GB and a Diamond Max Plus 9 200GB). Tried to start up and got the alternating file folder/Mac symbol a few times, then the grey screen with the Apple logo an the spinner under it. That's it, it wouldn't go any further.

    So, I pulled the 2+2 and reinstalled the original SeriTek card, hooked up the drives to it and tried to start. Success, except that only the 80GB (that's the startup drive) would mount. The 200GB drive does not appear on the desktop any longer. The drive show up in Disk Utility, but it is grayed out.

    What happened? Why didn't my computer work with the 2+2 in it? And most importantly, how do I get my 200GB drive to mount with the original SeriTek card that is now back in the computer?
    _______________
    note: I'm putting this up as a new thread with a new title that better reflects the topic. Always easy to stay in one place, and easy enough to edit thread title. - TZ
    Last edited by TZ; 09-04-2005 at 07:14 AM.

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    Whenever swapping out controllers, you have to rebuild the device tree, clear nvram, as well as other steps possibly, so the system will properly recognize the old SeriTek is gone and load the correct information.

    When you change PCI cards, nvram needs to change, the startup disk will be "different" and either boot from Tiger/Panther DVD, or use the Option key to look for boot drive(s), or have FW drive handy. Something.

    Maxtor DM9 were ATA drives with SATA bridge. Not sure if there were any problems except older technology and not native SATA.

    SCSI controllers are also tested and qualified to work with various drive models. I know people assume any disk drive will work, and usually will, but it isn't always a given. ACard use to list what drives and models they had tested and confirmed to work.

    It may be as simple as booting into Open Firmware,

    > reset-nvram
    > set-defaults
    > reset-all

    Then use Option key or boot from "C" and optical drive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ
    Whenever swapping out controllers, you have to rebuild the device tree, clear nvram, as well as other steps possibly, so the system will properly recognize the old SeriTek is gone and load the correct information.

    When you change PCI cards, nvram needs to change, the startup disk will be "different" and either boot from Tiger/Panther DVD, or use the Option key to look for boot drive(s), or have FW drive handy. Something.
    Thanks for the suggestions. Can someone please post step by step instructions on how to do this?

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    Follow the link to Troubleshooting Guide. It is all there.

    To boot into Open Firmware you hold down four keys on startup:
    Command + Option + o + f

    To understand the whole boot routine: Booting Mac OS X

    I thought putting the commands there would be enough., :-(

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    Thanks. I followed the link in your Troubleshooting Guide to Apple's instructions on "How to Reset PRAM and NVRAM:. Did the Command-Option-P-R procedure. Now when I start I get the alternating ?file/Mac logo screen for 15 sec, then the grey screen with the Apple logo and the spinner. It will go no further. Next step?
    Thanks,
    Bob

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    You HAVE to either use the OPTION key, or "C" and have a bootable CD/DVD present to boot from. When you flush nvram, it no longer has a pointer to where the boot drive partition is. It /may/ look for a valid blessed system (BootX) on bus 0, ID 0 - which is your native IDE bus master drive, first volume.

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    Tried holding down OPTION when restarting. It wouldn't go any further than it did before (grey screen w/apple logo and spinner). Found an 10.1 install DVD and started from there. All I could find was Disk Utility on it and it didn't see any of the internal SATA drives.

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    Found a copy of DiskWarrior 3.0.3 and booted from it. Tried hopdong down OPTION but it would only boot directly to the DW Disk. It won't allow me to access System Preferences under the Apple menu (greyed out). DW's Hardware test tells me that it sees the 80G and 200G Maxtors and that "This hard drive's built-in S.M.A.R.T. diagnostics indicate the drive is functioning normally. DW's Directory tab is giving me the option to rebuild either drive. Not sure if this will help us with getting the drives to mount, I think all DW does is optimize/defrags the drives. Again, my immediate goal today is to get the MaXtor drives mounted so we can do business when we open tomorrow (in other words, to get back to where I was before I installed the new SeriTek 2+2). Reminder, we're working with a Revision 1 blue and white G3 350.

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    Have you tried with just one Seagate 250? Either internal or external?

    I wouldn't trust any of your drives in case they have damaged directory or boot blocks for now. I would put the SeriTek in the 'short' 66 MHz PCI slot usually reserved or used for video card. You'll get better I/O, you only take a small 10% hit on your video. Huge difference in performance.

    ... where this saga began:
    Quote Originally Posted by bobabbate
    Hi all. I've got a blue & white G3 w/256mb of RAM. It has 2 internal SATA drive from Gurus, and they're rock solid. One drive has 10.3.9, the other is the file storage drive, mostly inDesign and Photoshop files. This Mac is strictly used to serve up the files on one of the internal drives, it is not used as a workstation.

    Until today, I had a 200MB Western Digital external Firewire drive as a backup drive. I also had another 200MB WD drive with Firewire AND USB. We had a power outage the other night and now neither of the WD drives will mount via Firewire. I was able to get the combo drive to mount via USB, and the files on it are fine. This drive WAS NOT plugged into the G3 during the power outage, but it will not mount via firewire any longer, just like the other wd fw drive.

    Three questions... first, what the hell happened? Second, how do I get the firewire drive to mount on the G3 again. Third, I think my love affair with Firewire is over. What kind of drives should I be using for my daily backups? I backup to one drive every night, and I have another drive that I keep off site that I back up to once a week. I use Retrospect for backups.

    Thanks in advance,
    Bob
    And here we are today.

    Now, not having your hardware in the .sig line makes it harder. Having to go back to message #1 I see part of why.

    My big mistake. The B&W can't use Option key (and I assumed it was a newer system). You had a power outage. There is only a minimal amount of RAM, 256MB. Even that could go in a power outage. A UPS should be required - they are indespensible. Like backups. RAM should be SDRAM of 125MHz 8 nanosecond; or PC133 of the right density of chips for 256MB.

    Can't put 200GB drive internal without an ATA controller. But more useful on B&W which can't boot from FireWire.

    10.1 - would never let it touch a drive, unless in dire straights. If you are running 10.3.9, where is the CD? If you get a chance, use BootCD to create an emergency CD with Disk Utility and Disk Warrior on it. Or Tiger DVD.

    Always useful to have an ATA drive to boot from, something 128GB or less, on the native IDE bus (unless this is a "rev 1" B&W, in which case you NEED a controller to avoid data corruption).

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobabbate
    Took your advice of a few weeks ago. I purchased the Burly 2-bay hot-swap SATA enclosure and a pair of Seagate 250's. Pulled my SeriTek 2 drive internal card. Installed the SeriTek 2+2. Connected the SATA card to the 2 esixting internal SATA drives (Maxtors, a DiamondMax Plus 9 80GB and a Diamond Max Plus 9 200GB). Tried to start up and got the alternating file folder/Mac symbol a few times, then the grey screen with the Apple logo an the spinner under it. That's it, it wouldn't go any further.

    So, I pulled the 2+2 and reinstalled the original SeriTek card, hooked up the drives to it and tried to start. Success, except that only the 80GB (that's the startup drive) would mount. The 200GB drive does not appear on the desktop any longer. The drive show up in Disk Utility, but it is grayed out.

    What happened? Why didn't my computer work with the 2+2 in it? And most importantly, how do I get my 200GB drive to mount with the original SeriTek card that is now back in the computer?

    Thanks.
    When changing PCI SeriTek cards, you need to boot into Open Firmware. Okay, you've now done that.

    One or both drive could have suffered damage. If the 80GB works, try with just that and get your system back to booting. Let's see if can't break this down and get it booting and working.

    Disk Warrior 3.03 does one thing, and does it well: create a new directory. It doesn't optimize, just creates a directory. The directory does get fragmented, and won't be afterwards. So yes, the directory is "optimized" but that is of minor consequence with OS X 10.3.9.

    "Common Filesystems" has an update added today on how Panther automatically optimizes and defragments.

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    Ouch! I hate deadlines!

    The Option-key restart is a G4 thing, no use on a B&W.

    Here's a shot in the dark; I recently had similar symptoms with an 80GB Hitachi 7K250 in a G4. i.e. It went bad in the G4 and exhibited the same sympoms in my B&W. I thought at first that the drive was physically failing on account of the unusual clicking noises from within along with a no-boot grey screen. DW reckoned the boot volume was OK. Disk Utility found the boot volume to be OK, but another volume couldn't be repaired. I have another post up with that question. In the end I zeroed the drive and reinstalled an OS, now it works OK. I think the troublesome volume identified in DU was in fact the Disk Driver Partition, but I really don't know. If you can, try initializing the 200GB drive, maybe zero it as well if you have the time. If you have data on that drive I can only suggest you back it up and try this, DW is great, but if this is the same problem I had, it can't fix it.
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

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    A normal erase or partition routine only tests the first 100 block sectors to insure that the hidden partitions are working and have no bad blocks. And sometimes DU would hang in older versions of OS X on that step.

    In any event such as that, I always go through an entire Zero-All of the drive to be sure.

    And DW might allow you to at least get at the drive's data. Rarely does it create a worse situation.

  19. #19
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    Found a Tiger install DVD. Booted off it and selected the 80G Maxtor SATA as startup drive. Wouldn't restart from the Maxtor. Restarted from the Tiger DVD again and ran Disk Utility. Repaired permissions on the 80G Maxtor. Tried to use Repair Disk, here's the results (I had to retype this):

    Verify and Repair disk "Maxtor 80GB Internal"
    Checking HFS Plus volume.
    Checking Extents Overflow file.
    Checking Catalog file.
    Missing thread record (id=56412)
    Keys out of order
    Rebuilding Catalog B-tree
    The volume Maxtor 80GB Internal could not be repaired.
    Error: The underlying task reported failure on exit
    1 HFS volume checked
    1 volume could not be repaired because of an error
    Repair attempted on 1 volume
    1 volume could not be repaired

    A couple more things:
    I have what I think (thought) was a good APC UPS/surge box on the job for this server.
    The 250g drive has all my client files on it, and it is not bootable.
    I have not booted into Open Firmware yet. It seems like a dark, scary place to go unless I have exact, step by step instructions. I don't want to screw things up any more than it is.

    Next? Do we try to fix the B-tree thing and get that drive to boot/mount? Do we futz with the open firmware stuff? I appreciate all the help.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ
    A normal erase or partition routine only tests the first 100 block sectors to insure that the hidden partitions are working and have no bad blocks. And sometimes DU would hang in older versions of OS X on that step.

    In any event such as that, I always go through an entire Zero-All of the drive to be sure.

    And DW might allow you to at least get at the drive's data. Rarely does it create a worse situation.

    Wise words TZ. In my own particular case it was DU in Panther which gave me the info that it couldn't repair a non-visible volume. With some of your previous sage advice in mind I zeroed the drive and got it working again. Sounds to me like bob has a problem with the drive, not the card, and zeroing the drive would be the place to start troubleshooting.

    Edit:

    If DW can see and put the drive on the Desktop when it's done it's thing, do like TZ says, copy your data someplace else, and then zero the drive. That at least is what I'd do. Why? A zeroed and initialized drive can now be excluded as a possible cause of why it won't mount.
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

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