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Thread: Blue and White G3 having problems starting up

  1. #1
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    Default Blue and White G3 having problems starting up

    Hey Everybody,

    I have a rev. 1 B&W G3/350 and I have two hard drives (120Gb and 12Gb) the 120Gb is running 10.4.1 and the 12Gb is running 9.2.1.

    I actually regressed the software in the computer and that is what I believe crashed it. I had it running on 10.4.1 on the 120Gb hard drive and the 12 was just an old hard drive that I tried to put os 9.2.1 on it and I was successful for about 5 hours. The first thing I noticed when I started in 9 for the first time was that it gave me a warning that the 120Gb drive had errors on it. So I used disk first aid to try and repair the errors but it could not and unfortunately I don't have disk repairing software.

    So after that I restarted the computer in 10 again and there were no problems with it I did use disk utility on the damaged disk and it had the same outcome as disk first aid. So I started in 9 again and this time there was no warning of having a damaged disk and so was changed some settings and than I thought everything was running well. After awhile I again tried to start in 10 again but now it will not pass the Apple logo will the spinning bars.

    I have tried everything that I know of to try to start it again in either os but to no avail. I have tried:

    OS 10.4 disk and holding c but the drive didn't even try to start from the disk.

    Unplugged the 120 Gb hard drive and starting from the OS 9 drive but it gave me the missing folder.

    resetting the pram and it restarted but no change in the conclusion.

    Tried a different IDE cable and still the same.

    Unplugger the computer removed the battery and left it for about 20 minutes and hit the CUDA switch, still no avail.

    Thank you very much if you have any suggestions to try and thank you very much in advance.

    Kenny

  2. #2
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    You will need a PCI controller for your drives.

  3. #3
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    You must have a PCI controller as TZ says. The BWs, and especailly the rev1 models have a crappy ATA controller that cannot handle modern drives. If you search here, or over at xlr8yourmac.com, you will see this well documented. Will do exactly what you describe; install OK, run for a while and eventually - usually less than a day - will no longer even boot.

    I have both a SIIG ATA cotroller and a Seritek SATA controller in my rev1, and both work fine. I would reccommend SATA over the older (P)ATA, but you already have drives, so maybe ATA is easier at this point.
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  4. #4
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    Thank you,

    I didn't know you had to do that I know that they were both recoqnized when I was just running 10.4 but it all happen when I tried to place 9.2 on the smaller hard drive. I thank you both very much.

    Kenny

  5. #5
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    Lightbulb

    Rev 1 B&W (Smurf) has a known "data corruption" issue when using either a disk drive that is newer than ATA-3 (?) and capable of greater than 18MB/sec performance, or if using two drives on the built in IDE bus (it is designed for only one originally).

    It is very possible that Tiger contains code to patch the IDE chip and system ROMs, they often do, to get around bugs that exist in the hardware. And that booting into OS 9, which can't and doesn't patch or work around those bugs, did it in.

    You might be able to use just one drive and run just Tiger on it for now. If shopping for new drives and controllers, do give SATA a look, the controllers are good and cost less than or same as ATA would. Better cables.

    www.xlr8yourmac.com/g3-zone/ is a wealth of information, not updated to Tiger but where I first learned about my own B&W Smurf. there is even a utility posted there (run in OS 9 so that's a catch-22) that will test for data corruption.

    The other issue with Smurf is its penchant for matched 125 MHz SDRAM. Right now I have G3/1000, 1GB RAM, Ultra160 SCSI, FW/USB2, ACard ATA/133 and Radeon 9200. Runs very, very well, too.

  6. #6
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    Kenny,

    did you install Tiger from a retail DVD using a DVD drive in the B&W?

    biggles.
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  7. #7
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    I did install a dvd burner drive to install tiger. I also have a 12 powerbook which is what I'm using right now, and I originally installed tiger on this computer.

    I actually found a rev.2 motherboard on ebay and the seller says it won't DOA for 37.50 so I bid on that because the controller cards are about the same but upgrading the motherboard is probablly a good idea since I have been reading a lot of incompatibility issues with the rev.1

    Thank you, I'll try to boot into just X.4 and hopefully it will work.

  8. #8
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    Kenny,

    I was wondering why you couldn't boot from the install disc. If you could, I'd be inclined to take the 12GB drive off the ATA bus, boot from the DVD and run Disk Utility's Repair Disk on the 120GB drive. If you can't boot from the DVD, try resetting the NVRAM in Open Firmware and give it another go. To reset NVRAM;

    restart the Smurf and hold down the 4 keys Command-Option-o-f until the command line screen appears. At the prompt type;

    reset-nvram (return)

    set-defaults (return)

    reset-all (return)

    The Mac will now restart. If you have the install DVD in the drive you may as well hold down the C-key straight away and see if that did the trick.

    A couple of points about the Rev.2 logic board;

    there are those around here who think that any B&W should use a host card for big fast new drives, that maybe some of the Rev.2 machines can still suffer from this data corruption problem,

    and if you were to use a PCI host card (ATA or SATA) then you could use drives >128GB. All PowerMacs prior to the Quicksilver 2002 are limited like this.

    biggles.
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  9. #9
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    Lightbulb

    Sometimes a CD/DVD won't boot if there is a system drive with damaged boot blocks or directory. Depending on what is on the drive, you may need to recover some files. Or wait and see how the new rev 2 board works out, as it shouldn't have an issue.

    In the meantime, I would inspect the DRAM you do have, they came with 10 ns / 100MHz SDRAM which is too slow. Likely to have kernel panics or even data corruption I/O errors.

    A controller will let you get ~53MB/sec - and run two master drives on separate channels - and that does improve performance by putting /Users on #2 drive and leave the OS and applications on #1, as well as have an emergency boot partition on 2nd drive.

    Eventually you start to wonder if it is worth the trouble, or just getting a Mini would make sense: G4/1.25-1.42GHz, 1-2GB DDR and better video, along with (bootable) FW. The FW ports on B&W are not bootable, and known to almost always (98%+) go out eventually, and slow. I just dropped $350 worth of upgrades into mine, so I am not advocating the Mini and abandoning hope etc. In fact, it makes for a decent computer. But for working with large scans and such, I turn to my G4.

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