Suggestions for troubleshooting firmware update failure

[fujimook]

G4 AGP 400, Finder 9.2, sys 9.2.2, memory PC100: 64 mb 322S, 128 mb 222S, 512mb 222S, Boot ROM version $0004.19f1.

Problem. When trying to run firmware u/d 4.28 I release programmer's button after the long tone. Status bar shows about 20% complete. Black screen. Gray screen, CD tray pops out. Black screen, CD tray goes in. Black screen. Gray screen, CD tray pops out. Black screen, CD tray goes in (2nd time). Begins boot up with large "welcome screen". Switches to black screen and refreshes with regular size "welcome screen". Finishes boot up and message says "Your firmware did not u/d. Please review directions then proceed again."

Am thinking about moving up from 9.2.2 but won't be able to w/o 4.28. Have tried reformatting hd and running with minimal system, running DIMM check, zapping PRAM, removed external devices, unhooking zip drive, removing & changing around all memory - always kept 1 DIMM in. Always get same result-no u/d. Any suggestions, logic board, processor, or should I just not worry about it and just keep 9.2.2? Thanks in advance.

john

[biggles]

John,

welcome. Just to be sure, you are running the updater from a local hard disk, yes?

biggles.

[fujimook]

yes I am.

john

[TZ]

Remove your PC100 64MB DIMM and move one of the others down. You need 7.5 nanosecond RAM. Any 64MB SDRAM is too slow, probably 10 ns and at most 8 ns.

[fujimook]

64 removed & 512 moved to J21, 128 in J22 slot... same result as before.

john

[TZ]

I didn't think that RAM should ever have been there to begin with was all. And some of the firmware updates were to force a check of any RAM's SPD code.

Usually it is a matter of troubleshooting down to basics.

Any time there is a problem, reset nvram, check the battery, do a PMU reset. Rarely is it just a "Oh, do this one thing." and have it work.

[fujimook]

I'll try the open firmware reset nvram, check battery and PMU/CUDA reset. My response before was not with an "edge" just to let you know what I did & the results. Please bear with me as I am just trying to learn as I go.

john

[TZ]

that's okay... just did not want you to get your hopes up. RAM has to be one of the most common problems facing users, even as they have upgraded to each new release of OS X, it seems to be ever more critical and put more 'stress' on RAM timing issues.

I liken it to peeling an onion sometimes, pull off each layer to see what symptoms remain.

I think I came across a little 'too strong' there. I am actually amazed your system booted and ran with the 64MB in there

[fujimook]

The 64 & 128 were originally installed when I bought the computer back in 2000 from ClubMac. I removed the battery, held down the PMU/CUDA for 30 seconds, tried to run the update and still got the failure message. I do appreciate the help.

john

[biggles]

john,

do you have the OEM install CD's, and if so do they include Apple Hardware Test?

And I know this is clutching at straws (I'm doing a lot of that recently) but maybe you could try downloading the 4.2.8 updater again and use that. I've no reason to think that the updater you have is anything but good, I'm merely trying to suggest a methodical approach which assumes that nothing is beyond suspicion.

biggles.

[fujimook]

Yes I do have the original cds and they do not have anything more than Disk First Aid. I don't believe that the G4 sawtooth shipped with the Apple Hardware test. Do you know if that would be helpful in diagnosing what is wrong with my comp? I have downloaded the 4.2.8 u/d via the software update panel and directly from the Apple website. Still no difference.

Would I gain anything by running the more intense RAM tests from TTP 3.0.9? Should I attempt the "minor march", "major march" &/or "free memory" or "full memory"? Thanks for hanging in ther with me on this.

john

[TZ]

Back in 2000 SDRAM that was being sold was a problem and was the reason for the firmware updates - to block RAM that was below spec (which that 64MB clearly is). In 1999 all of the SDRAM out there was below spec, was PC100 10 ns 100MHz and suitable only for G3/300 at best... not for G4s and was leading to kernel panics and problems.

I wonder if there is an OS X version?

[unclemac]

Hi all,

I may be way off here, but I have a vague memory of someone having a similar issue, and it turned out to be an OS 9 extension issue.

Might be worth making a new base/minimal extension set and trying again, just to rule it out.

Crazy sounding I know.....

[fujimook]

Tried with 9.2.2 base extensions & didn't work. Is there any significance to the cd tray kicking out & in 2 times? Any other likely things to check?

john