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Thread: G4 is freezing after CPU, RAM upgrade.

  1. #1
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    Unhappy G4 is freezing after CPU, RAM upgrade.

    Hi,
    I've upgraded CPU , RAM , SATA Card (bought at macgurus) on my friend's G4.
    Her G4 has already frozen few times before. Since the upgrade (yesterday night), it froze about 30 times.
    She uses Photoshop, Illustrator and Quark. This morning those softwares just closed, but now she gets this error message.
    "You need to restart your computer. Hold down the power button for several seconds or press the restart button.". She never got this message before.

    Her previous configuration was
    G4 QS 733 Mhz
    640 Mo RAM
    80 Go ATA133

    Now
    G4 1.4 Ghz (upgrade Giga 1214U)
    1.12 Go Ram (PC133 512 added)
    200 Go SATA150 w/ FirmTek SATA controller.

    I removed old memory modules but it still hangs and she still gets the message.

    I have almost same configuration at home with no problem :-(

    Any ideas ?

  2. #2
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    Lightbulb

    Did you do one thing at a time and test before doing the next upgrade?
    Did you reset nvram (Open Firmware) when installing parts?
    Are they running Tiger or Panther?

    When a system was already freezing before, that is not a good sign or time to upgrade.

    While Disk Warrior and Utility are good, they don't insure 100% of the errors are resolved.

    RAM: Rember or Memtest as well as Apple Hardware Test.

    80 Mo and 640 Mo = MB, right?

    Try booting from CD or DVD to run utilities. I like to use BootCD and run everything from there.

    Can they do a clean install and create a new account?

    Freezing that many times is guaranteed to kill the directory and filesystem and probably the OS.

    Try with just the old CPU and get it rock solid. Add or use just the new RAM. Add cpu. Last, add Seritek.

    I use Tiger cache cleaner (runs in 10.3.x also) to do a deep clean, as well as AppleJack along with other utilities. No Norton. No font issues.

    Which version of Quark etc might be helpful to know, and if they are the latest supported.

  3. #3
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    Default

    TZ,
    Yes Mo = MB (sorry for french language )
    I tried to boot with DiskWarrior, but the computer does not boot on the CD. It stays on the screen with the apple, and the ring in bottom turns and turns.

    Yes, I have first installed the hard drive with the SeriTek .
    I reset NVRAM
    the G4 is on Panther (10.3.9). There is Norton Auto-Protect on it.

    Actually she didn't use illustrator and quark (version 6.1) yet. Just Photoshop CS.
    and Yes, she got problems with fonts at her first start this morning. She had to reinstall all her fonts in suitcase.

    Other thing. About this mac says : 0 Mhz PowerMac G4
    2 MB L3

    Is there a program I can use to test the stability of the G4.

  4. #4
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    Lightbulb

    Read through the Guide to DA Giga-Accelerator (below) and I know that in some situations Apple system profiler doesn't report the speed. I think someone will chime in on that issue.

    NAV + Adobe/OS X spells (=) trouble.
    Uninstall NAV. Tiger now uses clamAV.

    I know you can find (and learn) a lot about fonts, suitcase and Adobe over in www.macintouch.com reader reports.

    It takes a long time to boot from CDs on some systems that can take 10-15 minutes, the 'ring' is also called a "gear wheel" at times.

    No emergency or 2nd clone of the system on another drive or on FireWire to troubleshoot from?

    For 10.3.9 I would start with Disk Utility / Panther CD. But you need an emergency system - and to burn your own BootCD and then upgrade and use Disk Warrior 3.02/3.03.

    From Panther CD, Disk Utility, there is a Restore tab that will let you copy a drive/volume to a 2nd disk drive.

    A "clean" Apple updates only, 10.3.9 boot volume would be handy in any case.

    Did you do any necessary updates before installing the Giga Upgrade? is it the latest firmware?

    Make a list, make sure it works with just the new RAM.

    Then, when that is fine and sure it isn't a problem, add the other memory back in.

    You may want to have on hand the Apple Hardware Test CD/DVD.

    Then get it running fine for a day with just the SeriTek. what is on that? you could move the system to there perhaps.

    one thing at a time is the only way to upgrade and troubleshoot.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for your advices,

    I will try all these steps. For Norton, I know but the person who installs softs on her mac (its a company) do love Norton. So I can't do anything for this

    I looked for a solution for the 0 Mhz PowerPC G4 shown in the Apple info, but I've found nothing except a solution for Sonnet upgrade (which was to install a package from Sonnet.) So I think this solution only works for sonnet.

    I will retry Disk Warrior.

  6. #6
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    Hi ,
    I thought the problem was resolved but it was not.
    The speed of the processor was set at 1.467 Ghz when the G4 crashed all the time.
    I set it at 1.4 Ghz and I tried several tests for 3-4 hours and it worked fine.
    Today, problems appeared again. Softwares like Mail Or suitcase closed and my friend got the "submit error" message. Even after reboot.
    Photoshop did not crashed but when she was using it , OS X seemed to shut down. The screen became blue and the "gear wheel" appeared, she had to restart.

    These problems only appeared after 5 or 6 hours of use.
    It makes me think that the G4 overheats. It's more stable @ 1.4 Ghz than 1.467 Ghz.

    I'd like to test memory but when I downloaded Memtest for Mac OS X, I had to compile it. gcc is not on this machine. Is there a MemTest compiled version ?


    TZ. No other ideas (except reinstall)

  7. #7
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    Lightbulb

    memtest is run from the terminal. There is also Rember which uses a GUI, same memtest code. Make sure you download the right program. Both are in my FAQ for Troubleshooting Memory.
    http://www.memtestosx.com/
    http://www.kelleycomputing.net:16080/rember/

    I don't know enough about Suitcase, but while troubleshooting, troubleshoot. You can always reinstall, and while trying to narrow down why, you may need to setup a system on another drive.

    Don't put a system in a case or on a carpet, use a PCI slot fan if necessary. Be methodical. One person found that they had a RAM problem at the heart of their upgrade. Faster cpus from Giga DO push more data and RAM is always the first thing to go.

    If it came set to run @ 1.47 (sounds high) that is what it should be left at, [i]or lower.[i] The ability to change the settings is for Giga's purposes in testing, and to make it easier to troubleshoot, not to over-clock a cpu. That would require tweaking voltage, using other techniques to cool the cpu - which some people do experiment with. Not for production systems.

    If, lets say, Norton causes kernel panics, and Mac support is iffy, then use clamAV or something else. It isn't a PC and while it makes sense in a mixed environment, while you are testing, there are known problems that Symantec and Adobe are working on. Usually, you want a minimal amount of 3rd party software that can slow a system down or cause problems.

    Once it is working, add one thing back at a time and leave it there until it is obvious the problem is gone or still happening.

    Once upon a time there was an OS that was suppose to be "init conflict free." What we were treated with was most conflicts stopped being between A and B. Instead, those little "appe" extension apps became three-way, If A and B, then C. Much much harder to resolve. So much for progress.

    download those two utilities. And when in doubt, shuffle the RAM around. You may need to replace some, too.

    Some programs interfere with unmounting drives. And disk drives should never be allowed to "go to sleep" when not in use in our experience.

  8. #8
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    I will try everything. Thanks for your help.
    I will let you know what happens.

  9. #9
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    Just to clear up the Giga Designs M5-1214U upgrade. It is a Universal upgrade and can come with its jumpers set to run in a 100 MHz or 133 MHz memory bus computer. When doing an installation of any upgrade the jumpers should be checked and set to run on your model.

    Installed in a Quicksilver the jumpers should be set to 1.4 GHz (14x RAM bus speed) This will give best results, especially to start with. If you decide to turn it up, do that later after you have tested and burned in the CPU.

    Overclocking a CPU can have detrimental affects on your data. This is because a CPU controls all data written to disk and if the CPU is tossing random errors around can corrupt any of your files, indexes, logs, preferences, even data files that it just accesses (like fonts)

    A backup of the data is the one essential when doing an upgrade of hardware or software. That is the way to be certain you do not risk everything from the not so uncommon issues that come from upgrades and installations.

    I hope you can repair all the little errors you appear to be seeing. You can always do a backup and then reinstall the OS. This can repair may of those problems. Most likely data that wasn't accessed will not be corrupted and can be recovered.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  10. #10
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    Hi ricks,
    The 1214 was set to 1.4 Ghz for 100 FSB. First I set it to 1.467 Ghz (FSB133).
    I reset it to 1.4 Ghz (FSB133). (TZ , for the 0 Mhz problem in Apple Profiler, I wrote to Gigadesigns and they send me a package to install which corrected the problem). All the data had been saved before upgrade.

    ReInstall the Os should be a good thing but the G4 is a company computer, so I can't reinstall the OS because they have a tech who does that. (He's paid for this, not me). I know he thinks CPU upgrades are just scrap and Norton is great.

    I'm trying to find what the problem is because it's me who advise my friend's boss to upgrade her G4. She always complains is too slow. And now, it's faster but it crashes more often.

    I will tell you if I find the problem. Thank you for helping me. (I'd wished you can speak french , it would have been easier for me)

  11. #11
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    Hi guys,
    After a fresh install the system still freezes and now my friend often gets the message "You need to restart your computer. Hold down the power button for several seconds or press the restart button." The screen becomes gray and this message appears in a box in several languages.

    I don't know what to do? Is it possible that CPU is the problem?

  12. #12
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    Default here is a guess

    perhaps the memory is borderline and the faster CPU is causing issues. can you remove all but the factory Apple Dimm and see if the freezing stops?

    very hard to troubleshoot when changing lots of variables.

  13. #13
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    rguising : I already did it. Now, the G4 runs with the new CPU only. I removed the SATA controller and the Ram. I kept the new RAM module from Macgurus and removed all other. The factory Apple Dimm is only 128 MB. Hard to work under Panther and Photoshop with only 128 MB.

  14. #14
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    Default yes but....

    is it stable with the 128mb Dimm, perhaps the "new" memory is the culprit.

    and yes, it will not be easy to use, but this would eliminate a variable.

    Panther will run at 128, and so will Tiger (granted poorly). If only to test the machine, it could be run like this for a day.

  15. #15
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    Ok.. I will try with the 128 Dimm.
    I will try "rember" to test memory. But the problem seems to come from the CPU.

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