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Thread: G5 2.7GHz

  1. #61
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    Unhappy nag, nag, nag

    Is there a escalating pattern here
    TZ has talked me into an APC
    TZ's recommendation
    TZ nagging
    TZ pest
    TZ urging me unmercifully
    I will not do a "told you so."

    If Nicolas's statement about memory the new 2.7 works better with RAM that the first unit rejected, or because it was running off cleaner power, I'm not sure. Or both. I have heard someone else attribute RAM problem to UPS (one person thinking the UPS was the problem, someone else, that it was the USB connection and/or software. Under Panther you need PowerChute, under Tiger, it just duplicates and doesn't add anything that Energy Saver doesn't already do or show, no added feature that I saw.)

    I was introduced to UPS after a storm or power outage killed our mainframe and it took a week to "put it back together."

    I've seen too many modems get fried in these parts, or equipment connected to phone system, that I do recommend something. For me, no modem would be a severe blow and I had a phone get fried once. I have backup modems, backup routers and switches, as I rely on the internet for food and a number of items that are hard to get or that I am unable to do for myself. I almost never leave the house at this point.

    The battery pack, during a power outage here, not for the computer, but for lights, TV, even to give the refrigerator a half hour to protect food if need be. When power went out a couple times, I ran a cord to the basement while waiting to see if the tornado watch was going to be something more. And a whole lot more comfortable than sitting in the dark with a flashlight.

  2. #62
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    Default

    I will not do a "told you so.
    I know... but I'd have to post something out here and suffer major embarrassment. You have told us all and shown us all good reason and the prices are great. Damn, back to some part-time work soon. Then I have fun money...

    There were days about the time you asked me to be a Moderator that I read every thread (except the RAID, speed issues) I won't need it and was learning a lot. I was able to research a lot more for our members and now many of my posts are slapped out there with a quick reference - somedays sitting just hurts so damn bad I spend 15-20 minutes sitting and 5 minutes in a reclined position. Getting and feeling a little better now.

    Need to reinstall an old Voice Activation program .. that would help some.

    Anyhow.. thanks TZ for EVERYTHING you have taught me. A heck of a lot for the basic home user with 1 computer well 2 counting my ol' XLR8 G3/400.

    Thanks to all,
    Randy

  3. #63
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    Randy,

    You are right on about TZ. I am very glad that this spring has been good for you and marvel at your upbeat disposition despite the pain of the bone against your femur. I certainly hope that gets better. k

  4. #64
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    TZ,

    I will add one more to the escalating pattern, this time seriously. Thanks for all of your help and advice since I first started thinking about getting a G5. It goes back that far and at present I can hardly wait for a power interruption. I used to dread that. if I recall correctly, I have had 3 of them since getting this Mac running while the utility here transfers over from one power source to another. That causes a short interruption which has troubled me and you have pointed out to me the dangers. Thanks. k

  5. #65
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    Decided to do one more test to see how many watts worst case I could be drawing. Added Lexmark printer and Burly to UPS. This will give me an ballpark figure for auto or manual shutdown.

    Battery/Surge outlets (6)
    -------------------------
    1. G5, 2x UL4D. Burly connected to UL4D in 133MHz slot
    2. display, Apple 23" aluminum Cinema HD, ATI Radeon X800XT ME in AGP slot
    3. Granite FW400 LCD swappable tray case with IBM 180GB 180GXP-8MB drive
    4. Macally USB powered hub
    5. Lexmark USB printer (may move this to Surge outlet)
    6. 4x Atlas 15K II in 4-bay Burly (250W PS)

    Surge outlets (2)
    -----------------
    1. USB scanner

    Kill A Watt watts info:
    1. UPS running, G5 and all other items shutdown, 15W, battery charging, G5, and Lexmark printer, tho shutdown, not completely so. Printer draws watts because of its auto startup and auto shutdown capability. G5 set Highest Performance in Energy Saver settings for both Power Adapter and UPS.
    2. Turn on printer, peak 21W (PW) to 16W idling (IW). (This reading is additive in that the UPS and G5 draw is also in that peak and idling. The remainder results are also additive.)
    3. Turn on FW400 drive, 43PW to 31IW.
    4. Turn on Burly, 153PW to 100IW. (Also earlier tested Burly by itself, 135PW to 79IW.)
    5. Startup G5. At first appearance of Desktop, 490PW to 380IW once Desktop is complete.
    6. Hardware Monitor, QuicKeys, Activity Monitor, Ethernet/DSL, Spotlight, and Dashboard running in background.
    7. Open Pshop CS2, 454PW to 390IW. 10.4.1, Available RAM 3072MB and 70% = 2150MB, boot drive 300GB MaxLineIII-16MB cache used as boot, CS2 app, and Users. File Save Drive and Scratch Disk Drive 4x 36GB Atlas 15K II, SoftRAID 3.2, 128KB stripe units, 136.97GB, not journaled, on UL4D 133MHz bus, 2-channels.
    8. Open Pshop CS2 Preferences, 494PW to 390IW.
    9. Cancel Prefs, 460PW to 394IW.
    10.Run Pshop test with 1.5GB - 3780 file.
    TEST1-Open, 514PW to 395IW
    TEST2-Rotate Canvas 180, 526PW to 395IW
    TEST3-Apply Image, 529PW to 395IW
    TEST4-Save, 502PW to 395IW
    TEST5-Canvas size, 514PW to 395IW
    TEST6-Auto Color, 524PW to 395IW
    TEST7-Gaussian Blur, 520PW to 395IW
    TEST8-Sharpen, 522PW to 395IW
    TEST9-Save, 500PW to 395IW
    TEST10-Convert to Profile, 511PW to 395IW
    TEST11-Save, 495PW to 395IW
    TEST12-RGB Color, 515PW to 395IW
    TEST13-Save, 497PW to 395IW
    11.Quit Pshop CS2, 474PW to 385IW

    Interesting results in that the peak watts results were not what I would have guessed. Would have bet that the Open, Saves, and TESTs 10 and 12 would have produced the highest watts.

    Miscellaneous:
    1. If you recall, on shutdown of the G5 I was getting one of the Burly LEDs to remain lit, one Atlas drive still showing activity. This time I unmounted the RAID volume from the desktop and then shutdown, no Burly activity LEDs on after shutdown.
    2. Kill A Watt does a remarkably good job of mimicing Activity Monitor either disk I/O or CPUs percent increase or both.
    3. Based on these results I can figure worst case watts for the APC UPS, 529PW to 395IW, and conservatively figure 500W or 10 minutes. So it looks like I should set 8 minutes for autoshutdown so that the APC battery still has some left.
    4. Ordered a USB 1.1 notebook light with an on/off switch to better see Kill A Watt.
    k

  6. #66
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    Lightbulb

    Kaye,

    We had some storms pass through, expected to hear the UPS warning beeps - no such luck

    I take it you have the KAW between the wall and UPS. And the printer is on surge only.

    You're numbers help. Someone with G5 2.3DP over on bbs.xlr8yourmac.com is trying to get by with "minimum" UPS which usually means about 1250V.

  7. #67
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    TZ,

    Your recommendation of the APC BACK-UPS RS 1500VA/865W is right on. Marvelous capacity and I don't think I could hook up anything that I have that would take it over its limit. Am very pleased to say the least.

    I have an air conditioner cord coming out of a 15A wall socket. The cord is 6 foot 15A, UL approved, 14/3 wire, 125VAC, 1875W. The KAW plugs into the end of the cord and the APC cord plugs into the KAW. The APC cord is also listed as 14/3. The printer is on a Battery/Surge outlet because I wanted to load up as much as possible just to see but I will likely be moving it to a Surge only outlet, like the scanner.

    I have yet to experience the warning beeps. Dang electricity has been working without fail since I installed the UPS. Bummer. k

  8. #68
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    Just curious TZ about what you have set for auto shutdown with the UPS since I would guess it has happened to you.

    In Energy Saver > UPS > UPS I have set it for Shutdown the computer when the UPS power level drops to: 25%. The other two time selections, I wonder if they work since in the Menu Bar if I select to Show Time, it sez (Unknown time). Show Percentage displays (100%). k

  9. #69
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    Lightbulb

    I agree with 25%, and I have "Shutdown when time left is 10 minutes."

    But... I have a couple hours, 2-4 hrs, off external battery pack. enough to stay online for 20 minutes through a brown-out if I need to complete something, but it is more of a safe-guard thing. If I was away from the computer and there was an outage, I hope it does shutdown properly and fully.

    In the past PowerChute would not always behave as expected from what I read. No 'first hand experience' to offer. And with or without, all I have seen is "%" rather than time.

    Belkin BullDog software was or seemed to be 'smarter' and show load level and everything, but only with their own UPS, doesn't help APC RS, and I think it is still 'broken' for Tiger. But was why I bought a Belkin at one point (it has a very annoying 'hum' that is unpleasant though).

    I have APC RS1500, APC 350, Belkin 350. And the APC 24v DC battery pack. I think that is enough. I think there is a "pro" or 3rd party APC monitoring software that can control and monitor a network of systems and UPSs.

  10. #70
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    OK TZ, that's good info. I looked at some of the more expensive APC models and they have PowerChute (without the PE), PowerChute Business Edition Deluxe, and a variety of other optional items.

    The more I think about that Show Time (Unknown time), I think that it must be waiting for a power failure to begin calculating the time remaining. If I ever do get an extended power failure I will switch to Show Time and see what it says, then go back to Percentage and wait for an Auto Shutdown. Sometime this summer out here, it is guaranteed to happen. k

  11. #71
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    Pics of the notebook LED light purchased for Kill A Watt


    Works very well in daylight and complete darkness and has an on/off slider switch on the cord

    k

  12. #72
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    TZ asked me to post a diagram of my APC BACK-UPS RS 1500VA wiring while he helps me to free up some sockets. I'm working on that with a couple of APC SurgeArrests I need to order. The SurgeArrests will also allow me to put them on a shelf and reduce all of the wiring going to the RS 1500VA and under foot.

    Here is what it looks like now with no spare sockets:

    k

  13. #73
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    And now a revised drawing with the SurgeArrests and Burlys added:

    k

  14. #74
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    Default Nice work Kaye

    That photo should make TZ smile. Seriously, it looks great.

  15. #75
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    Lightbulb

    - very professional!

    I've seen Apple recommend books www.apple.com/macosx/resources but I think they should have a page with kaye's photo recommending UPS! Maybe we'll see APC's magazine with an ad submitted by one of their customers someday

  16. #76
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    Thanks Randy and TZ and thanks for the help TZ. I was going to put identifyers on the cables and then decided I wanted to diagram it out so that I could remember better which plugs went to which devices and clean up the floor of cables.

    And I will send the pic to APC today. k

  17. #77
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    I ended up only needing one SurgeArrest. It and all of the cables and bricks are on a shelf under my desk. The diagram is dumbed down for the web and to be able to print it on one page with my printer. Am down to 3 wires going to the RS 1500VA, 1 from the SurgeArrest, 1 USB to the Data Port, and 1 from the RS 1500VA plug going to the KAW. So no wires or bricks under foot and it will be much easier to switch between the G5 and the GigaMDD. A test this morning with everything running except the Burlys was 499W peak on startup. Will run some tests including the Burlys tomorrow.

    k

  18. #78
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    Tested with everything in the diagram turned on from before startup (I=Idle, P=Peak):
    30IW - G5, printer tho off, Westell ADSL and XRouter Pro on, iHub 7 and Zoom 56k on during startup
    31IW - Printer on
    31IW - CanoScan switch on but did not come on until during startup
    56IW - Desk Lamp on
    113IW - Fan on
    126IW - Granite FW400 Hotswap on
    129IW - Speakers on
    191IW - X15.3 Burly on (4x X15.3 Cheetahs)
    250IW - Atlas Burly on (4x 15K II)
    250IW - Cinema HD on
    663PW - G5 on startup
    550IW - at desktop

    Ran Altivec Fractal Carbon at Fit Window to Main Screen and Maximum Count 16384, remainder default:
    699PW - AFC during test
    655IW - after AFC completes test
    Ran AFC again at same settings but this time checking Amps:
    6.37PA - AFC during test
    5.98IA - AFC after test

    With Both Burlys running but separate striped RAIDs, on startup the Atlas Burly now mounts faster in 10.4.2 and appears before the Menu Bar items complete. It reboots just fine without having to unmount and no Burly LEDs remain on during the reboot.

    I shutdown and the Atlas Burly LEDs did not remain on. So I turned off the X15.3 Burly and did another startup. This time the Atlas Burly did not mount until after the Menu Bar items completed, but a reboot went just fine with no Burly LEDs remaining on and a shutdown went just fine with no Burly LEDs remaining on. 10.4.2 seems to have solved that problem and no need to unmount before reboot or shutdown. My previous problems with the Atlas Burly were with 10.4.1. k

  19. #79
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    Good doc on G5 Power Consumption and I asked that the article be updated with the later G5s. k

  20. #80
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    My 4-bay SATA Gurus Burly has 5 drives, 3x Raptor74s and 2x Raptor36s, plus a variety of drive coolers in addition to the Burly fans, 2x Guurus Ultimate Coolers, 2x nameless coolers, and 1x Gurus Granite SATA hotswap LCD case kit with fan.

    KILL A WATT tells me with everything shutdown
    30IW - G5 tho shutdown is drawing power and Westell ADSL and XRouter Pro are on
    167PW - SATA Burly on
    96IW - After SATA Burly settles down

    So 167-30= 137PW for Burly startup
    96-30= 66IW after Burly settles down

    Pretty small draw from the 5 drives and all the fans and Burly. k

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