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Thread: Kernel Panics, too frequent...

  1. #1
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    Default Kernel Panics, too frequent...

    Hi there,

    I need some opinions/help on a recurring "problem" with kernel panics.
    I have a 2001 QS-867 single. max RAM (3x512MB from Gurus) 2 internal Seagate Barracudas each @ 120GB (5 partitions in total) and 1 external FW Maxtor 60GB for temporary backup. Plus Epson Stylus 2200 with RIP 2.0, Scanner etc... the rest would be too much to list here.

    Until a few month ago I was working on OS X 10.3.5 without problems. One day I decided to buy the RIP for my Printer, since I needed proof like prints for client designs. Once the software arrived I prepared the installation as usual...permissions, cron scripts, Disk Warrior, etc. Installed the RIP and went through the same sequence again, including pre-bindings and permissions via startup from CD. Everything came out clean and I went back to work. In the follwing weeks kernel panics started to occur out of the blue. Have to admit, that at that time the RIP was running permanently. Some senior helpers on the Apple Support site suggested that the RIP is the culprit and recommended to download the combined update for 10.3.6 (the most actual at that time) and just overinstall it. I did that. Moreover, I decided to keep the RIP program closed if not needed. To cut a long story short. The Panics eased to maybe 1 every two weeks. Since then I did not apply any system upgrades, software patches etc. However, I do regular system maintenance and back ups to my external HD. Out of nowhere, the panics are back since a few weeks. Twice sometimes three times a week. Just this morning when I shut the MAC down to replace the battery in my UPS it panicked during the shutdown procedure (though all programs are closed).

    What is going on? I have no time to re-build my system. I need to earn money with my freelance job, and cannot afford to be down for a day or two.

    Any suggestion. Any tip or work around?

    Thanks very much and sorry for the lengthy thread.

    Uli

  2. #2
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    Arrow More Info please

    Hello Uli,

    what RIP software you are using (Best/Efi, StylusRIP, HarlequinRIP)?

    Do you have another or spare Mac that could run the SW RIP?

    Are there updates for the RIP?

    Is your system crashing even without running the RIP?

    Regards

    Nicolas

  3. #3
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    Default Info

    Nicolas,

    thanks for your quick reply. Hope you don't freeze too much back "home" in good old Germany.

    I use the latest version of the OEM Stylus RIP (version 2.0)
    No SW updates available when I last checked mid last week. Unfortunately I do not have another Mac. just a PEECEE Laptop. And yes, sometimes it crashes without the Rip "running". Meaning, its there but not started up. I use the regular OEM driver if I do not make use of the RIP.

    Any idea?

    Uli

  4. #4
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    Guten Tag Uli,

    well, -1C here at Frankfurt/Main.

    We had an older version of the StylusRIP (Epson Stylus 3000) running in OS9. We always had problems like unexpected quits, only type garbage instead of an image, prints first page than you have to restart the RIP and so on.

    On Win98 it works great but only without using a HotFolder.

    If you are in production (as mentioned),
    Try to install the RIP on your PeeCee (I think the RIP software is for both systems). When it is running on the Wintel Laptop, remove it from your current OSX system. When OSX keeps crashing, you can rule out the RIP software.

    Next on the list is the RAM of your Mac.
    TZ made a great FAQ/How to test RAM here .

    If your problems continue post again.

    Regards

    Nicolas

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    Default May be the external drive

    Well, I might have found the source of the problem, but I need advise on the issue. Nicholas suggested to delete the RIP software and install it on my PC laptop. Well I didn't do that yet, since I need it for pending projects.
    Just a few day's ago I updated my OS to 10.3.8, plus the security update that was posted. I used the combined update, since I was running 10.3.6.
    All went extremely well, and it seems that the system is slightly snappier.;-)
    So far the good news.
    However, last night I restarted due to a major power failure in our complex. RIP Software and major applications were not running. I had to salvage a HDD I brought in from work, since one of my co workers screwed up. I popped the drive in my external FW case and went on with getting the drive back on track. Disk utility was half through with permission repair when... a Kernel panic paralyzed the system. Usual screen. You have to restart your computer. To do so ..........! I remember from previous occurences of the panics, that the drive was sometimes running. Though I'm not sure if always, when the problem came up.

    Is the external drive kit the problem? Its a Mercury FW400 3.5" external kit with the Oxford 911 chip set. I know there have been problems with this case the chipset and OS 10.3.x, but the sales rep at OWC was sure that all problems were eliminated and I was buying a kit with an updated chipset and Firmware.

    Anybody have any ideas?

    Thanks a million.

    -- Uli

  6. #6
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    Default

    Hello Uli,

    the latest Firmware for the 911 bridge is 3.8.
    Some companys stated, there are no known issues but, I had some with 10.3.x.
    Drive fails during finder copy, unmounts from the desktop and stuff like that.
    Did the firmware upgrade and problems gone.

    It could be a faulty FW cable too.

    The problem affected bridge is the 922, anyway.

    Regards

    Nicolas
    Custom Configurations! Rad Hacks and Mods!

  7. #7
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    Default log message

    Nicholas,

    thought I should post the the panic log of the last three occurences. See below. Are you able to see what in the world causes my sysem to crash? Any help is appreciated.

    Uli

    Thu Mar 3 18:30:39 2005

    panic(cpu 0): vnreclaim: v_usecount
    Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
    Backtrace:
    0x000835F8 0x00083ADC 0x0001EDA4 0x000C360C 0x000C0380 0x001D5438 0x001EFFD0 0x000CD770
    0x000C61EC 0x29DEDCA4 0x002463E4 0x00094160 0x00000000
    Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
    com.NAI.SysCallExt(1.0.0)@0x29dec000
    dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOUSBFamily(2.1.5)@0x29dcc000
    Proceeding back via exception chain:
    Exception state (sv=0x2E990C80)
    PC=0x9000E88C; MSR=0x0200D030; DAR=0xE02B2000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x910BCDD4; R1=0xBFFF3A90; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

    Kernel version:
    Darwin Kernel Version 7.8.0:
    Wed Dec 22 14:26:17 PST 2004; root:xnu/xnu-517.11.1.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

    
    *********

    Thu Mar 3 22:21:08 2005

    panic(cpu 0): vnreclaim: v_usecount
    Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
    Backtrace:
    0x000835F8 0x00083ADC 0x0001EDA4 0x000C360C 0x000C03C4 0x001D5438 0x001D51AC 0x000DEDCC
    0x000DF060 0x000BE344 0x000BDD8C 0x000CA9C8 0x002463E4 0x00094160 0x00720069
    Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
    com.apple.NVDAResman(3.4.2)@0x4f8000
    dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x4b0000
    dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.4)@0x4c3000
    dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.4)@0x4e2000
    Proceeding back via exception chain:
    Exception state (sv=0x2D77CC80)
    PC=0x90010A2C; MSR=0x0000F030; DAR=0x02494000; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x90285ABC; R1=0xF007E730; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

    Kernel version:
    Darwin Kernel Version 7.8.0:
    Wed Dec 22 14:26:17 PST 2004; root:xnu/xnu-517.11.1.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

    *********

    Fri Mar 4 20:11:39 2005

    panic(cpu 0): vnreclaim: v_usecount
    Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
    Backtrace:
    0x000835F8 0x00083ADC 0x0001EDA4 0x000C360C 0x000C0380 0x001D5438 0x001D5068 0x001DB22C
    0x001DB920 0x000BE344 0x000BDD8C 0x000CD870 0x000C61EC 0x009E1CA4 0x002463E4 0x00094160
    0x246323BF
    Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
    com.NAI.SysCallExt(1.0.0)@0x9e0000
    dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOUSBFamily(2.1.5)@0x7cb000
    Proceeding back via exception chain:
    Exception state (sv=0x2D8A6500)
    PC=0x9000E88C; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x024BE000; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x9029F2D8; R1=0xF00FF240; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

    Kernel version:
    Darwin Kernel Version 7.8.0:
    Wed Dec 22 14:26:17 PST 2004; root:xnu/xnu-517.11.1.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

    *********

  8. #8
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    Default

    Hello Uli,

    first thing, always repair permissions after a Kernel Panic (KP)!!!

    Panic 1 and 3 seems to be USB related but, the second Panic to the video card. I have to think about that v_usecount never saw this before.

    Are you using an USB hub?
    I saw some weird things using some USB hubs.
    This could mean you have an incompatible/bad USB device.
    Removing all peripherals temporarily (including PCI cards) to see if it panics again.

    A friend of mine had always Kernel Panics (dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOUSBFamily) since he was using an HP printer.

    If the KP is RAM or CPU related then it looks like this:
    EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001) or KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) or 0x000 Data access

    Take a look here at Mac OS X Maintenance Tips and GENERAL TROUBLESHOOTING.

    BTW I want those old error numbers back

    Regards

    Nicolas
    Last edited by Nicolas; 03-07-2005 at 12:01 AM.
    Custom Configurations! Rad Hacks and Mods!

  9. #9
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    Default

    Hi Nicholas,

    to answer your question. I use a Belkin 4-port USB hub. Bought it just a few month after the Mac (December 2001). Never had trouble with this one.
    Otherwise, I have plenty of peripherals.
    Epson Stylus 2200 (will connect tonight via FW, to see whether the current USB connection causes the KP)
    APC Battery Backup (USB)
    HK Sound Sticks (USB)
    Kensington 2-button Studio Mouse (USB)
    Apple Pro Keyboard (USB)
    Epson 2450 Scanner (FW)
    Fuji & Leica Digital Cameras (both USB, but no drivers installed since I use them once in a blue moon for download of images and then disconnect the disc immediately)
    iPod and iPod Mini (FW)
    External HD enclosure (FW- with Oxford 911 bridge)
    Adaptec Internal PCI 3-port FW card

    With regards to the graphics card, I'm still on the original Nvidia GForce with 32MB that came OEM with my Mac (I know, time to upgrade)

    I guess I have to put some time into that, to find the trouble spot.
    BTW, thanks for the links to the various Troubleshooting sites. I know the majority of them, and I have alway's been good in system maintenance.
    This is the first time since I have this Mac, (September 2001) that there is an increased number of "unprovoked" KP's.

    Cheers

    Uli

  10. #10
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    Default It doesn't stop....

    Nicholas,

    I have taken your advice and disconnected all peripherals. Tested, and ran system utilities for about 48 hours, with and without devices. Rember, AHT, Disc Warrior, all give the system a clean bill of health. However I continue crashing (last time last night just after midnight) Below log is representative for all crashes I had this week (at least once-a-day):

    Thu Mar 10 00:10:36 2005

    Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 0): 0x300 - Data access DAR=0x00000000FFFFFFFF PC=0x000000000005651C
    Latest crash info for cpu 0:
    Exception state (sv=0x2C828500)
    PC=0x0005651C; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0xFFFFFFFF; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x00053F90; R1=0x19C7BC70; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
    Backtrace:
    0x00020100 0x00054030 0x00058A60 0x00059064 0x00091014 0x00093FCC
    Proceeding back via exception chain:
    Exception state (sv=0x2C828500)
    previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
    Exception state (sv=0x2D29D000)
    PC=0x902A6DCC; MSR=0x0200D030; DAR=0x0562D004; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x902A6D5C; R1=0xBFFFCDB0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)

    Kernel version:
    Darwin Kernel Version 7.8.0:

    I was just going to post above panic log in the forum, when the screen faded and here it was again, yet another panic. Not even 9 hours after the last one. I was up until 1.30 a.m. to run utilities after the crash before. It seems to make no difference whatever I try. The log this morning had following to say:

    Thu Mar 10 08:34:01 2005

    Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 0): 0x300 - Data access DAR=0x000000000000000B PC=0x000000000008068C
    Latest crash info for cpu 0:
    Exception state (sv=0x3C029C80)
    PC=0x0008068C; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x0000000B; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x000B7A54; R1=0x19E7BBC0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
    Backtrace:
    0x00000000 0x000BE4C8 0x000BDD8C 0x000CA9C8 0x002463E4 0x00094160 0x00650073
    Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
    com.apple.NVDAResman(3.4.2)@0x4f8000
    dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x4b0000
    dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.4)@0x4c3000
    dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.4)@0x4e2000
    Proceeding back via exception chain:
    Exception state (sv=0x3C029C80)
    previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
    Exception state (sv=0x3C021500)
    PC=0x90010A2C; MSR=0x0000F030; DAR=0x23ED9004; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x90285ABC; R1=0xF007E7A0; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

    Kernel version:
    Darwin Kernel Version 7.8.0:

    Here I see the PCI and Graphics-Family dependency again. The DRV support is new. What is that related to?

    I'm getting weary of that problem. I probably erase my OS 9 partition (never use it anyway) and start fresh with OS X. At least I don't have too much downtime like that.
    Q: Would it probably be better to have one full HD dedicated to OS X and applications? My Master drive (80GB) has currently 3 partitions, of which 20GB are allocated for OS X and applications.

    Any idea?
    Uli

  11. #11
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    Default

    Two days down time has turned into two weeks...

    500 watt UPS? - do you have another handy to use? RS1000 maybe? How old? any APC does a self test but you can force one. Always possible something passed through (ethernet, coax, phone line all need to be filtered).

    I would put OS X on two drives, one is what you have to have for work, the other is absolutely clean with only Apple updates. Start from scratch and put the Apple only on one drive, clone it over to the other drive using Apple Disk Utility Restore.

    I don't like that it is cpu each time.
    You can disable the L2 and L3 cache with CHUD (4.1) - requires that the Apple Devloper Tools be installed - large download if you don't have it already saved or burned to DVD (good place for installers and updaters).

    Back-tracing what you added and installed, already done except perhaps to uninstall software.

    If a system has the slightest problem before an update, often it only is made worse (but running Disk Utility and Disk Warrior should help reduce file corruption, though not necessarily data within those files).

    If it is just the CPU, there are options. And Tiger will be even better optimized to fully take advantage of dual-cpu.

    Some people run multiple copies of memtest, and even shift RAM around so that they can test all of their memory and get at the 80MB that that system would keep to itself.

  12. #12
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    Default

    Hello Uli,

    Quote Originally Posted by uli
    The DRV support is new. What is that related to?
    That one is part of the Nvidia video card driver.


    Quote Originally Posted by uli
    Would it probably be better to have one full HD dedicated to OS X and applications?
    I have three partitions, the first for OSX, one for Apps and the last for OS9.
    Never had problems.


    Quote Originally Posted by uli
    Any idea?
    The new KP is CPU, RAM, PCI, AGP or HD related.
    I hate to say it but, best would be installing a new system and troubleshoot after each software installation. If KP continue there is something wrong with your Mac. Then you have to remove your installed hardware step by step (PCI cards, RAM).

    Regards

    Nicolas
    Custom Configurations! Rad Hacks and Mods!

  13. #13
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    Default

    Thanks TZ,

    I guess a clean slate is the best to go. I will not drag my Mac through Tiger. I'll keep 10.3.x. All the design software I use has already an effect on performance. 8-10 applications open at a time is the reality rather than the exception. And Tiger on top, will not change that for the better. May be when I finally get my dual 1.7 GHz G-Celerator and the ATI 9600. Until then the current set up has to do.

    With regrads to the UPS, I have a clear APC LS-500. (about 2 1/2 years old) Just changed the battery two weeks ago, since the old one gave up. It couldn't keep an alarm clock alive anymore for more than 10 seconds. L.O.L.

    Anyway, the weekend is almost here, and I guess I have to put in a "night shift" to get the QS back on track...

    Many thanks to all of you. Gurus rule...

    Uli

  14. #14
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    Lightbulb

    Sorry to hear it'll be night-shift duty for weekend. I think having a base system, and then, you can always clone it to another drive, install, test and see how it goes (and gives you a backup). Just posted a note on using Disk Utility and command line to backup a system to disk image and burn a series of DVDs, if necessary, thanks to MacIntouch: Backup Reader Report.

    LS-500 Clear:
    Output power capacity 315 watts
    Max Configurable Power 500 VA
    Max Configurable Power 315 watts

    It is designed for 200 watt systems so it has some head room.
    My favorite low-cost but powerful, APC RS Series - less than what I paid for an old 200 watt unit 8-10 yrs ago of course. Offers coax (if you are on cable) as well as ethernet (coax lets through too much current) as well as DSL/phone protection.

    For what you do, even with Panther, $400-600 for cpu upgrade could kick it into high gear - and wait three months (or more) after any new G5s ship (the iMac G5s have faulty PSUs which give out under "heavy" cpu usage). Your UPS should take some of the load off internal PSU.

    Apple Hardware Test isn't robust enough to find some problems, so it would seem it could be software or 3rd party hardware (PCI, video card). The Radeon 9000 or OEM 9600 might be useful.

    Disk utility programs are not perfect and can miss some problems. Sometimes I copy files around to a spare drive just so the Finder gets to check the file (found one this AM) along with TriBackup.

    If possible, have you watched to see if spikes in cpu or temperature are in any way related? Temperature Monitor or Hardware Monitor can help there. also, check for any SMART errors - SoftRAID seems to be more sensitive and give real-time alerts).

    Keep us posted - if you have time or come up for air during the weekend.

  15. #15
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    Default Update

    Hi TZ & Nicholas,

    well first, thankx for all your help so far. Just wanted to give you an update on progress.

    I re-formatted my external HD (writing zeros to make sure the last bit of data was erased). I removed all peripherals except keyboard and Mouse. I checked the drive with Disk Utility and Diskwarrior, just to find the drive great in shape. So I started a clean custom installation on the drive. Within minutes all set and done. I cutomized the installation by leaving some stuff out and deleted manually programs like Chess and iChatAV, which I never use anyway. Repaired permissions, Disk warrior. All good so far. Then I copied the combined updater 10.3.8.from another partition, and began updating the new System on my external HD. Installation went through, without problems. Restart > Disk Utility > Repair Permissions. Repair ended with the following message:

    Determining correct file permissions.
    We are using special permissions for the file or directory ./System/Library/Filesystems/cd9660.fs/cd9660.util. New permissions are 33261
    We are using a special uid for the file or directory ./private/var/at/jobs. New uid is 1
    We are using a special uid for the file or directory ./private/var/at/spool. New uid is 1
    The privileges have been verified or repaired on the selected volume

    I ran Permissions 6 times, but above message remained. Just before under 10.3.0 permissions came out clean. So I closed all windows, to run Disk Warrior from CD, pressed control+ eject for restart when the system crashed. The KP on screen said the same as in the last day's but in addition something about "Memory (1.0.0.0) or similar."
    Now, if this is related to a Hardware issue /memory, I do not understand why Rember, Memtest and AHT gave the sticks (3x512MB from Gurus) a clean bill of health?
    I have still my old set of sticks. I will pop them in tomorrow and see.Would it may be help if I reset the logic board by using the PMU button?

    I'm close to surrender.

    Uli

  16. #16
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    Default

    Hi Uli,

    a PMU/NVRAM/PRAM reset is worth a try.

    I had a MDD at work wich gives KP's "0x300 - Data access".
    The original HD went bad, after replacing it by a new one all KP's are gone.

    If you are using the Mac with OSX only, the 9600, TZ mentioned, is great but, if you use OS9, the 9000pro is the way to go.

    TZ, what do you think?

    could it be the GeForce?

    Best regards

    Nicolas
    Custom Configurations! Rad Hacks and Mods!

  17. #17
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    Lightbulb

    First,

    Do not worry about those messages from repairing permissions. That is fine and normal. (We have a thread or two on "Mac OS X 10.3.x Update" where we all discuss the updates. And FAQ of same.) 10.3.0 should never have been released - had to for the new G5 though. Otherwise, 10.3.2/3 should be minimum and when it was 'ready.')

    I suspect that DW CD and 10.3.8 but not sure. If memtest/Rember/AHT say okay to 'Gurus RAM, don't worry a bit more.

    Clone your system to another drive.
    Use Boot CD to build a custom emergency CD with DW and anything else you want to add. (when in doubt, check FAQ or www.macupdate.com)
    We want a clean system cloned and so you can run repairs from a second disk drive.
    I'm close to surrender.
    Never.

    Why copy the combined updater? it can run from a CD or any partition (I keep some on DVD as well as on disk drive).

    Boot from Panther and run First Aid. Don't worry about Disk Warrior unless you need to actually. And do leave journaling enabled.

    rerun the combined update. repair permissions once.
    clone the system.

    Play with it.

  18. #18
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    Confused Kraut to Kraut...

    For one thing, meine Herren, I don't see much reason for a 'Rip'... If U know what U're doing and if U're in charge of Ur own workflow, U can control the look of Ur image productions without such. Your humble Imager < WolfP > is in total control; from taking the pictures to scanning then tweaking and/or manipulating and finally printing on 5 different printers. I know my equipment and I know my stuff, as I assume U do...
    That said, U seem to run too much on one unit. U should at least have several HD's for different tasks if U cant afford a 2nd computer. For one thing, I have learned not to run OS 9 & X on the same HD. I don't even like 'classic'. OS 9 for 90% of all tasks, the most powerful of my G4's with 10.2.8 for about 10% of the work done in CS... I move files between the desktops with the help of a small FW device.
    Finally, it may very well be that Ur troubles have little to do with too many SW's on one HD. Before the Mobo on a QS 933 MHz went to rest at Apple's eternal hunting grounds, the unit much performed the way U described. No 'sudden death' but a long time dyin'... It could well be that U have a similar surprise coming. Sorry, don't mean to paint the devil on Ur wall...

  19. #19
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    Default Now that's news

    Hi TZ & Nicholas,

    thought I update you on the status. I'm smiling again.
    Not that I found the problem, but hey, since Saturday NO CRASH.... I call that progress.

    Well, I did two things. First, I updated firmware for the external HDD with the Oxford chipset. Though the Java updater said that the version installed was up-to-date, I just ran the updater again. The updater required to remove all PCI-FW cards beforehand which I did.
    The second task was quite unusual for me. My girlfriend saw smoke of frustration coming out my ears, and she demanded to take the Mac to my Apple Store in Aventura. So I unplugged the slew of peripherals and got away with the Mac. The Genius at the bar fired the G4 up and opend with a terminal command all applications at once. (would love to know that command). I was standing there, and just waiting for that Crash screen to come up. 10 minutes, 15, 20, half an hour. Nothing. A G4 867 single, with 1.5GIG Ram and about 35 apps open at once. I was happy to see that the "old" Mac could still do that. Well, to make a long story short, the Genius could not find anything wrong. So I took the Mac home, let it sit for half a day besides my desk, without connecting anything. Just Saturday late I put all together again and fired up. Since then, no restart, no error message, no panic. TOUCH WOOD.
    Now, what caused the problems? Was it the firmware of the external drives chipset? May be the PCI card was not seated correcly (but all peripherals through that card were recognized). Or was it just the fact, that I disconnected all peripherals for a second time in a week, shipped the tower for 25 miles through the city and have it rest for a day. I have no clue.

    Anyway, I appreciate your patience and your help. GURUS ROCK...!

    Uli

    BTW. WolfP, in case you read this, you might be a workflow genius. I'm happy for you that you're able to retouch images in a way that they simulate CMYK by printing RGB. But remember, different users have different needs, have different objectives. You cannot expect all designers and pre-press operators to work to your standards. Moreover, if you read message one of this thread, you see that I have 5 partitions on 2 HDD's. That should tell you enough.

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