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Thread: Please help with G4 dual processor upgrade

  1. #1
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    Default Please help with G4 dual processor upgrade

    I'm new to MAC and basically inherited two G4 computers that someone was working on. It's a long story, but someone died and I got the computers. I'm trying to rebuild one for my nephew who wants a MAC and so I would like to make this machine work.

    I have it running but it won't wake up from sleep mode when the case is closed. I believe it's because the CPU's are overheating.

    As far as I can tell the guy from whom I got the machine was trying a do-it-yourself upgrade but never got it working. I have it working but don't know where to go from here.

    It's some kind of GIGI design upgrade that allows for two CPUS but the heat sink doesn't seem adequate.

    Can anyone help? I can post pictures if that helps.

    I have Leopard installed and the machine runs well when the case if left open.

    Thanks!

    Scott

  2. #2
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    Default

    Welcome!

    We can start with exactly which model G4, and Giga you have there. Hard to do anything until we know that.

    I know I've seen the case door issue before, but don't remember the cause/fix. I've slept a lot since then. I think it has to do with some magnetic sensor.

    I have a dual 7447A 1.6 Giga in my DA G4. It runs fine, but I've upgraded the airflow. I also don't use sleep. It causes more problems than it solves IMHO.

  3. #3
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    Default hope this helps

    Like I said, I'm new to the MAC world so theses things are foreign to me. I don't know what number to give you for the exact model and I have no idea exactly how old it is.

    Here is what is on the back of the machine:
    serial#XB0293V8J3C
    450mhz DP/2X1M cache/128MB SDRAM/300GB
    Power Mac G4

    I'd have to take the chips back off to tell you exactly what they are, but they're 1.4 ghz each.

    The upgrade kit is model 5BD-1333UP, which I think may be GIGI design?

    I installed a new HD, which is a SATA drive that is using a PCI card. I also installed an AGP graphics gard.

    There was a PCI fan that was hangning out of the computer when I got it so I put that in there as well. It doesn't do much although when I had it directly on the CPU and the case open it did a better job of keeping it cool than what's on there now.

    Let me know where I can get the other numbers for you that would help.

    Thanks!!!

    Scott

    I do have pictures that I can send....

    scott.weinhold@verizon.net

  4. #4
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    Default

    Let me know where I can get the other numbers for you that would help.
    I think we can tell from that info. Sounds like the original was a Power PC G4 (Gigabit Ethernet).

    Look here and here. So we know for sure.
    The upgrade kit is model 5BD-1333UP, which I think may be GIGI design?
    Yes, that is a Giga CPU upgrade. There are a lot of things to check. Moving the jumpers and slowing it down might help cool things. There are NO FANS of any type on the heatsink? Should look something like the image below. Good reading http://www.macgurus.com/guides/giga_da/part1.php about Giga install.
    Last edited by rwm; 12-12-2008 at 07:31 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default

    You still here.

  6. #6
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    Scott e-mailed me off-board this morning. What he's got looks to me like a GE, but did they make a 450 dually? Could be a late model Sawtooth. There's no internal FW connector.

    The CPU is a Giga 7455 dually. It's missing the smaller heat sink from the transistors on the side of the board.

    The machine itself is missing quite a few screws, and the drive bays have been gutted. He's got another G4 too, but don't know what it is. Looks like the start of a good project.

  7. #7
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    Thumbs up GE it is

    They sure did make a Dual 450 and a Dual 500. So this Apple page sez. See you tomorrow. It's my bed time.

  8. #8
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    Ah, OK. If it was originally a dually then it has to be a GE since the Sawtooth/AGP models were all singles.

  9. #9
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    Default thanks for helping

    I have some pictures to include but I need to edit them. I put them here but they were huge!

    I definitely have the AGP graphics model because I installed an AGP card. The alignment of the sound ports confirm this.

    In the pictures you can clearly see where there was paste on the transistors near the CPU's. I also found an image of the upgrade kit and it shows that there was a heatsink there.

    I'm not sure I know which screws are missing because both computers would be missing the same screws and that seems odd to me.

    I kept the machine machine running beautifully the other day with the case open and upgraded software online and nothing gave me trouble. Once I closed the case, it shut down in a matter of minutes.

    There is a fan on the CPU, but it's not over the entire heatsink (the case wouldn't close if there were.) It's not really over where the CPU's are either, but that seems to be consistent with other photos I've seen.

    From what I can find, the maker of the upgrade is no longer with us and I'm going to have to make a new heatsink.

    Any suggestions?

    I do have an Ethernet port on the back.

    Scott

  10. #10
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    Are they both the same model?

    Just because it has an AGP slot doesn't mean it's an AGP graphics model. All but the first gen G4 have AGP graphics slots.

    Kinda confusing isn't it?

    I originally thought my GE was an Sawtooth/AGP model. There should be a small label on the back that lists the original specs.

    You might try removing that PCI cooler. It could be causing airflow problems in the case i.e. dead air space around the CPU. Worth a shot anyway.

    The missing screws are not huge problem as long as the board is secure. Many of the G4 screws are an uncommon thread pitch, and can be hard to find. They may have been robbed for something else.

  11. #11
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    Default model

    I used that link someone suggested and my sound ports are aligned (on both machines) like the AGP model.

    If I boot this up is there some place I can get this information?

    I can't right click on my computer like I do on my PC :-)

  12. #12
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    Control+click is the same as R click. Also any USB mouse should work fine on the G4.

    Both the Apple site, and EveryMac have lists of the various G4s, and how to identify them.

  13. #13
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    Default possible solution

    I think I got something!!!

    I took the PCI fan and rigged it to hang under the ZIP drive so that it's cooling the CPU from the side.

    So far...it comes out of sleep mode :-)

    I think that I'll probably rig a heat sink for those transistors and find a more permanent way to mount the PCI fan if it works.

    I'm going to leave the machine on for a few hours and see how it does.

    How do I check CPU temps and what are safe temperatures?

    Thanks,

    Scott

  14. #14
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    Unfortunately there's no way to check CPU temps on these things with software. I just use my hand. The heat sink should be warm, but not hot.

    If you're into case modding check out what I did with mine. The thread actually starts out with my GE, and ends up with my DA:

    http://www.macgurus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22377

  15. #15
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    Default false alarm

    it ran longer...but still shut down on me

  16. #16
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    If you look at the pics of my DA CPU fan setup you can see the copper strips on the side of my Giga 7447. Maybe you could rig up something similar on your 7455.

  17. #17
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    Yeah.........if the issue is heat, there is nothing to be done but get the heat out, or you could down clock the CPU so that it runs a bit slower, and stops cooking itself. Most (all?) of the Gigas have jumpers that let you set voltage and clock speed, which may be the easiest way to go. Probably worth checking to see what it is clocked at now, and then seeing if you can slow it down a touch to run cooler.

    Beyond that, sounds like you need more heat sink, more fan, or both.
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  18. #18
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    Default waking up

    I'm not sure what's happening now. When I wake the computer from sleep (no matter how long it's been running) the fans all come back on and things light up but the display never comes back.

    Could it be that it's not properly waking up the display? And the CPU is ok?

    Or, is this just a result of the CPU running too hot?

    Scott

  19. #19
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    Default another thing

    I have to unplug the machine to get it out of this mode...

  20. #20
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    Sleep is evil. Never use sleep if your computer is upgraded in any way (ram, processor, pci card etc) you will always have issues.

    to get out of that problem without pulling the plug push and hold the power button until it reboots, it takes 5 seconds of holding or more. After it reboots turn off sleep. Sleep is evil.

    Sleep is evil
    Damien,

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