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Thread: Yosemite won't swallow OS X

  1. #1
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    Default Yosemite won't swallow OS X

    I picked up a Blue/White G3 . It came to me with:

    450MHz processor
    10GB HDD
    DVD-ROM
    ZIP100
    512MB RAM (2x256MB)

    It had no video card, so I had to get one. I obtained what should be the same as the OEM card. I installed it in the 66MHz slot.

    I immediately had problems with it. Trying to install 10.2 or 10.3, it would freeze often. I never got far into the install. Same with 9.

    After much ado, I realized that the 256MB DIMMs must be the wrong kind (let's hear it for DIMM First Aid). I found a pair of 128MB DIMM's and installed those instead. I was able to install OS 9 without a hitch.

    However, I still cannot install 10.2 or 10.3 . Symptoms vary, but generally it freezes the system before I can very far into the install process.

    OK, after more ado, I realized that my 128MB DIMMs were 10ns. OK, I found some others that DIMM First Aid said were 8ns. Still, I cannot install OS 10.
    OS 9 on the other hand works great.

    I seem to have the latest firmware - the updater on the 9.0.4 CD says so. ASP says it is 1.1f4 .

    Does anyone have any suggestions? I'd apprecate hearing them.

  2. #2
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    Is all being installed on the 10 gig's internal bus. Do you know if this is a rev 1 or rev 2-3

    What drive are you installing it on?
    What is on that drive?

  3. #3
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    It is a rev2 MB . I meant to mention that. I didn't know that there were rev3 ?

    Anyway, I'm installing it on the only HDD I have - the 10GB internal drive that is attached to the primary IDE bus. Nothing else is on that bus. The ZIP and DVD-ROM are on the secondary.

    I've tried many different things. Currently I've got the 10GB HDD split into two partitions, 4.5GB each. OS9 is installed on the first partition, and I am trying to install 10 on the 2nd partition, which is empty. However, I rarely get far enough to even select a drive.

    I've also tried a single empty partition. No difference.

    I feel like it must be related to the RAM somehow, since the symptoms vary slightly with each type I've tried. But this last type I thought was the right kind.

    Thanks!

  4. #4
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    Currently I've got the 10GB HDD split into two partitions, 4.5GB each
    Not sure whether it's the problem. But the 4.5 partition may be too small. At least I wouldn't want to run 10.x loaded with apps on a partition that small.

    But before going down the route of re-partitioning, if you think it's RAM related, then boot into 9.x and run Disk First Aid, post the results and we can get a look at the RAM you have installed.

    Also if you remember the some of details of the RAM, e.g. which RAM was bought where, that can help.

  5. #5
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by GriffithLea
    I picked up a Blue/White G3...

    However, I still cannot install 10.2 or 10.3 . Symptoms vary, but generally it freezes the system before I can (get) very far into the install process. OK, after more ado, I realized that my 128MB DIMMs were 10ns. OK, I found some others that DIMM First Aid said were 8ns. Still, I cannot install OS 10.

    Does anyone have any suggestions? I'd apprecate hearing them.
    There is no "rev 3" which there is for Beige. Wish there was, something that fixed the problems, but that was the Yikes! and Sawtooth models. Yes, DIMM First Aid is a godsend.

    The best way to begin is to boot into Open Firmware and reset-nvram and go from there.

    There is no need to partition, but for now, try 8GB for OS X and 2GB for OS 9. You want to have 9.1+ and 9.2.2 is preferred. And make sure that the 10GB is jumpered properly (master, master-only). And that the IDE cable isn't the problem.

    You say it doesn't work and freezes. Retail CDs for Jag/Panther?

    See if Drive Setup will do Test and check and map out bad blocks. Even if the drive works, it is 5 yrs old now, and my experience is that some of those units just don't take very well - besides running at 11MB/sec at the most.

  6. #6
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    Sounds like a HD problem. Wouldn't surprise me if you HD was buggered, it is nearly 5 years old! try replacing it.

  7. #7
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    Sorry about the rev 3 - Don't know what I was typing. You all know 1 or 2.

    Try installing it on as large of partition as you can. Don't install all the extras - same space.

    Randy

  8. #8
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    GriffithLea,

    spooky stuff! OS 9 works OK? Can't install OS X? That sounds like a rev.1 problem! But you have a rev.2. Hmmmn!

    Your drive's big enough. I run 10.3.5 on a 300MHz clamshell iBook with a 3GB drive, no problems, and that's with 288MB RAM installed. There's no reason why OS X shouldn't run on your B&W, it works on my rev.1 just fine.

    What are the spec's of your 10GB drive?

    Can you run Disk Utility from your OS X installer CD? If yes, have you tried initializing the drive with DU before the OS X install.

    biggles.
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  9. #9
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    FWIW..I have the same B&W machine as you do and also have trouble with osX. I can run the computer 24/7 in os9 without crashing, but with osX it freezes at least once a day. I have tried switching ram and HD's...I think my next thing to switch out will be video card. my goal is to get it running osX stable, and then adding a faster processor and HD (either ata or scsi, haven't decided which yet).

  10. #10
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    Thanks to all who have replied. I really appreciate it. I'll try and address each of your suggestions. I've been too busy these past couple of days to do anything with it, but I wanted to post and let you all know that I'm paying attention to your great suggestions.

    Note that the OS X install usually fails before I even get to choose a drive. It varies. I don't think the partitioning is the issue. Besides, that wasn't going to be a permanent partitioning scheme. I'll probably go for something like a 3GB/6GB arrangement.

    Someone asked if I could test the drive for bad blocks. I already had, and no errors were reported.

    I've already tried resetting the PRAM and Openboot Firmware, though that was early on, before I determined that the RAM was wrong, and I should probably try again.

    I presume that the drive is the Apple-branded drive that came in the machine from the factory. I figure since the OS9 Disk Setup initializes it, that this is the case. Someone tell me if this is a bad assumption. Someone suggested trying the OS X Disk Utility - I'll do that and report back.

    None of my install CD's are copies - they are Apple-labeled CD's . I guess the OS X CD's could be black/gray market, since I bought them used.

    I had meant to already post the output of DIMM First Aid, but now the system is acting crazy even with OS9 . I had decided to repartition to the 3/6 scheme, and now I can't get OS9 to reinstall, where it had gone without a hitch previously (once I got the right RAM in there).

    Right now, I've got 2x128MB 8ns RAM. DFA reports no problems. The DIMM's are in the first two slots.

    I previously swapped out IDE ribbon cables, which didn't help, but that was before the RAM fix. I need to retry that.

    Thanks again, everyone.

  11. #11
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    It sounds like you're doing all the right things, and nothing helps! Bummer.

    Checked/replaced the battery? Sorry if that's too obvious to mention.

    I couldn't install OS X on a B&W with a single Barracuda IV 40GB drive on the IDE bus, although OS 9 worked OK, but that was a Rev.1 machine. Reversion to the stock slow Quantum drive or moving the 'cuda onto an Acard host fixed that; same symptoms, but yours is a Rev.2.

    B&W's like their RAM sticks to be identical. Can you post your DFA results yet?
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  12. #12
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    I recall reading in Apple's B/W forums that a few users were suffering data corruption even with rev. 2 machines. It's not nearly as common as rev. 1 owners, but it happened to a few.

    Even rev. 1 BWs can suffer data corruption with stock HDs, particularly the larger ones that were stock or BTO.

    One thing you could try to see whether data corruption is an issue, is to run the data corruption checker at xlr8yourmac.com. Crank up the settings and see how it goes.

    Also when you checked whether you had a rev. 1 or 2, do you look at the ATA chip on the motherboard? That really is the determining factor. Looking for the U-bracket isn't enough. Apple shipped some mixed systems, i.e. rev. 1 mb (with flakey chip) in a rev. 2 case.

    I know from reports with rev. 1 owners that the effects of data corruption tend to be more severe in OS X, sometimes leading exactly to the symptom described here -- failure during the OS X install. Bad ram can also cause that failures during install on B/W and otehr Macs.

    I had a rev. 1, but already had a Tempo/66 and good RAM in my machine before OS X was even released. Tempo/66 is in a box somewhere.

  13. #13
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    "OK" in DIMM First Aid means it could read the SPD code in bytes 18-19. That it could determine the speed of the RAM (125 MHz = 8 nanosecond). It doesn't mean that it is 'good' or 'okay' really in any meaningful manner.

    Once you do get OS X installed, best bet is to still run Rember or memtest (there is no Apple Hardware Test CD for us). Also TechTool Pro 4.03.

    Every time you change PCI cards etc, best bet is to reset nvram.

  14. #14
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    Thumbs down

    Well, I'm going to throw in the towel. I got the guy who sold it to me to agree to take it back. I really appreciate everyone's help. I hope to find another BW G3 450 soon. I guess I'll sell the video card on ebay.

    Before I gave up, I swapped in a known good hard drive, CD-ROM, and IDE ribbon cables. Still no dice.

    Never could get OS9 reinstalled after the repartitioning (I even went back to a single partition - still no luck) so no posting of the DFA output will be forthcoming. I do know that the checksums or whatever that long string of gibberish is appeared identical between the two DIMM's .

    I should have mentioned that the 8ns RAM came out of a known working machine that has been exhibiting no problems.

    The reason I think it is a rev2 MB is that I checked it against some website out there that explained the difference. As I recall, if you have a "402" on the chip near the IDE connectors on the MB, you have rev2 . I have 402 .

    About the only suggestion I haven't tried involves the battery. I did take it out for a few moments last night, but it made no difference (except to the system clock, of course). How would a bad battery manifest itself? I thought that only caused problems with forgetting the date, startup disk, etc.

    Again, thanks to all. I'll keep checking back - this is a good site.

  15. #15
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    Default rev 1 or rev 2

    Looks like a rev. 2 Read this thread. http://www.macgurus.com/forums/showt...&highlight=402

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