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Thread: DP upgrade in SP DigAudio?

  1. #1
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    Default G4/DA Upgrade

    The Uni-N utility tells me that with rev. 11 this 733DA is OK for a dual-processor upgrade, but I'd like to know more about how or why the Memory Controller issue mentioned by Costa could make this a less than optimum choice. Help me here Costa, you said:

    "Dual Processor upgrades, though tempting, do not carry the same rate of successful reports over single processor ones on machines which were originally designed for single processor operations. There is a long argument about this, but I still have to find a correct or reasonable answer to such issue."

    and in a previous post;

    "I am against fitting Dual Processors into machines originally designed for Single Processor operations, because you need to rely on third party software (non-Apple) to correctly address cache memory banks on BOTH CPUs, by the Memory Controller knowing that the backside bus on the logic board was originally designed for SP operations. I know of users who have done such upgrade, but I also know that for many of them hasn't been really a stright forward exercise..... (if you know what I mean).
    You never know what those third party softwares really do regarding the programming of your internal Memory Controller."

    For me, stabilty is more important than raw speed.
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  2. #2
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    For conversations sake, I have one thing to say about Giga Dual CPU Upgrades: THEY ROCK!!!

    MacGurus is advertising the hell out of Giga boards and we sell a boat load of the Duals. We have not had a single return on any since the first board we shipped. And that board was cooked because the manual was incorrect. (it said to test the board without the heatsink...duh)

    That is an unbelievable QA rate from Giga. Not ONE return.

    I installed a Dual 1.3 in LAurie' Quicksilver and it is very, very, very fast.

    Picture of Laur's upgrade, click pic for larger image:
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  3. #3
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    OK Rick, I'm convinced, and another thing...!

    You have much experience with B&W and QS, and I know that noise is a subjective thing, but how noisy is the cooler fan on the Giga DP card vs. the other 2 stock machines? I can live with the noise of both the B&W and the DA, but not much more. And given that any upgrade I make isn't actually going to do anything more than my stock 733 does now, just do it faster, how much warmer will it run do you think? Is the 7455 G4 chip enabled for temperature monitors?
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  4. #4
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    Ricks - is that an upgrade that was done on what was originally a SP QS? So then if so, I assume that stability is not an issue, huh? Unbelievable! So, throw in a SATA card, a bit better graphics and some high quality PC133 ram (for me with a DA 733, anyway) and it's probably going to be a dramatic difference, right? Fantastic!
    =======================
    MacPro 1,1 2.66GHz, 4GB RAM, 10.5

  5. #5
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    I could always hear my Quicksilver running. It has the two power supply and case 80 mm fans, a 20 mm video card fan and a CPU fan that used to be the rubber mounted OEM 40 mm one from Apple and is now a slower turning 80 mm fan from Giga.

    It sounds vitually identical now with the Giga as it did before with the OEM fan. The CPU fan is not noticeable sound when you first fire up the computer with the door open to check that the fan is turning.

    Quicksilver computers have a lot of grill over the power supply fan which causes much of the noise. I never bothered to cut that grill out since I am halfway deaf anyhow on account of too many hours in airplanes, and while not too much (can't have too much), certainly a significant tonnage of burned gunpowder to cause hearing loss

    I haven't tried any software temperature monitors. I tossed a temp probe in different areas to see what direct temps I got and never got over about 115f which is well within tolerance. I'll have to check with Kaye on what temperature software I should try out, unless you have a clue. Might be nice to know so I can properly answer this type of question.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  6. #6
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    Rick, thanks for that, I hear what you're saying, kinda! 11000 hours in airplanes and the medic says my hearing's OK, kinda! No gunpowder though. Trouble is the Neumann mics hear real good! Until I shell out for Firewire I/O hardware I'm stuck with the 'puter on a 6' leash, so noise is an issue, I sent back a new dual-boot 1.25MDD on account of it. The DA's OK, and if the Giga duals aren't appreciably noisier than that I might give it a whirl. Right now the room temp is 70F. The remote probe resting on the inner upstream side of the CPU heatsink reads 97F and will go 6 or 7 degrees higher when I run ProTools, but what the CPU is actually running at I have no idea, nor any problems, so I guess it's OK. Temperature in the cabinet, top rear near the PSU fan outlet runs around 95F (35C), which is the upper limit for ambient temp specified by Apple, the rest of the cabinet is much cooler, so I'm guessing that's just fine. Lots of guessing going on. And on the subject of noise, just how quiet is your G5?
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  7. #7
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    klinger2004

    I also have the QS 733, already put an ATI Radeon 9000 in it and the SeriTek SATA host card and an SATA Seagate drive with the 8 MB cache/buffer works great. While waiting for a price drop. I have been drooling over the SP 1.25 Giga OC'ed to 1.4. A dually would sure be fun.

    These upgrades would produce some good numbers - put em right up there with some of the bigger boys.

    Randy

  8. #8
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    If I may I'd like to return to my original question, restated by klinger2004, which has to do with DP upgrades in SP machines, the wisdom of which has been questioned.

    Rick, was your QS a dually to begin with?

    No returns is no returns, and some of the users must be putting them in SP machines. Any reason not to go ahead with a Dual 1.33 in a SP 733DA?
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  9. #9
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    Let Rick get back to you but I am sure he had a SP 867

  10. #10
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    Yes, mine was a single 867.

    We have no problems, issues or instabilities from putting DPs in singles. Giga did an awesome job. The cards are tested, each and every one, at our distributor Waypoint. Jason is the tech that does this and he is overwhelmed with the high quality after doing that with other brands.

    I am going to pull this Dual 1.3 and sell if for $25 off or so from retail. We have no reason to use it in that machine. That QS is Lauries workstation and the store mirror server, it has been flawless for the last few weeks with that upgrade installed. That computer is running every imaginable application 24 hours a day including Virtual PC which eats processing. Laurie leaves at least 15 apps running at all times, Dreamweaver, Photoshop, VPC, accounting, 5 or 6 browsers. All have been perfectly stable with zero shutdowns or reboots since the installation.

    And the easiest install I ever did, no firmware, nothing but set its jumpers. (they were correctly set, you always need to check them though)

    Laur doesn't need the extra speed with the stuff she does and we only bought it to test it, so that is why we'll sell it, use the money to buy and test something else

    RIck
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  11. #11
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    Rick, if it's for sale,

    biggles(at)macdotcom
    Last edited by unclemac; 05-23-2004 at 10:54 AM. Reason: To protect your address from spambots!
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  12. #12
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    Rick,

    To answer your question about temperature apps, in 10.3.3 my MDD DP with 7455 (Apollo) v3.2 CPUs, runs both ThermographX and Loudometer just fine. My QS/PF with dual 7457 CPUs, both apps report words to the effect that the CPU manufacturer has disabled CPU temperature monitoring.

    In reality, it could still be because it is a QS, or that the PLogix software does not have temp monitoring enabled, or that the monitoring really is disabled by the manufacturer. No way to know. So I still use a Radio Shack digital indoor/outdoor with the outdoor probe situated over the rear/right hard drive 2-bay. Right now it says room temp 74.1F, inside the QS 90.1F. k

  13. #13
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    Rick,

    Before you pull it, or while you're pulling it, can I ask you check the fit of something?

    I was wondering whether the QS CPU fan/bracket fits beside the GD upgrade. One thing I like about the DA (and QS) is that additional CPU exhaust fan -- unlike the old B/W I had which relied solely on the PSU fan.

    Of course the DA and QS have different mounting units but I suspect the smaller one from the QS would fit the DA. Just a question of whether there's enough clearance with the GD dual upgrade install.

    How big is the fan on the GD dual upgrade anyway?

    Thanks, E

    biggles, go for it and keep me posted. We both have DA/733s, and I'm curious how it works out for you. Since aquiring a used Cube recently, I've got an additional older Mac in need of some upgrading but not enough cash to do both at once. Going to have to spread it out.

  14. #14
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    eric, I have gone for it, and I'll tell all when it's installed.

    kaye, since the GD upgrade purports to use 7455 processors I'm hoping that ThermographX or Temperature Monitor will work, but if not, oh well, I'll just have to go on guessing with the old Outdoor/Indoor thermometer.

    biggles
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  15. #15
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    11000 hours.....damn Biggles, were you flying the hump in Burma or somehting??
    "Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining." -- Jef Raskin

  16. #16
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    Default Sawtooth G4 500 GD 1.25DP upgrade

    Well, here's one report of problem with GD duals in G4 DA systems, but QS models don't seem to have any trouble at all. You can search for more entries using the link below.
    Reviewer's Name: Patrick
    Date Submitted: 2/23/2004
    Rating (1 to 10):
    Manufacturer: Giga Designs
    Rated Speed (CPU/Cache MHz): GigaDesigns *DUAL* G4/1.25GHz
    Max Speed (CPU/Cache MHz): Tested for 1.3GHz Dual Operation
    Cache Size: 2MB L3 Cache -PER- Processor
    Mac Type: sawtooth G4 500
    Comments: Hi, I'm living in France, I just received my new GigaDesign accelerator card : GigaDesigns *DUAL* G4/1.25GHz w/2MB L3 Cache -PER- Processor for PowerMac G4 AGP Graphics(Sawtooth) & GigaBit Ethernet Models. *Tested for 1.3GHz Dual Operation, uses Motorola 7455B 1.25GHz Processors* New, 3 Year GigaDesigns Warranty. (GIGGCD1250S4G13).

    <> My computer is a G4 500 AGP running MAC OSX 10.3.2. The chipset is the more recent Uni-N version. (rev 3 Uni-N models are not dual CPU compatible (at least with OS's later than OS 9.1 and later.)
    The boot rom version is : 4.28f1.
    Search CPU Upgrades XLR8YOURMAC
    Review GD 1.25 in Digital Audio
    Last edited by TZ; 05-23-2004 at 11:03 AM. Reason: No mention of TempMonitor or ThermographX in reports?!

  17. #17
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    unclemac, nooo! I'm not THAT old! First flying job was in the Yukon, 1979. 40 below? Nice warm day that! And thank you for your edit, what was I thinking about? Wee small hours, half a bottle of Bordeaux, you know how it goes, many thanks.

    TZ, I looked through that entire section at xlr8 before I decided, and I think he just got a bad one, most everything else is positive. Too late now anyway!
    Last edited by biggles; 05-23-2004 at 12:12 PM.
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  18. #18
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    Cool

    could be. just that most of the other reports of duals were QS/2002 and his was Sawtooth G4/500 (100 MHz bus). At least its been fully tested, burned in, "electron etched" to teach the bits where they belong ;-)

  19. #19
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    for sure, I know this one works!
    "illegitimis non carborundum"

  20. #20
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    And besides, the Sawtooth version for AGP and GigaBit Ethernet models is a different board from the Quicksiver/DA board. No borrowing bad mojo allowed. The dude probably bought it from OWC and deserves his fate!

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

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