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Thread: beige minitower upgrade

  1. #1
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    i upgraded my blue and white g3 to a g4 500. my friend has a beige mini 233 running osx. we thought it would be an easy upgrade to drop my g3 450 processer into his mini. everything went fine. started up, got mac chime but nothing on screen. blank. do we need to zap pram, firmware update, play around with jumpers? any help would be appreciated

  2. #2
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    Flash the PRAM. Ensure that the ZIF is seated fully in the ZIF socket (press down slightly while locking the lock arm so as to ensure a good fit towards the bottom). You will likely need to alter the jumpers at the J16 jumper block to get it to run at the higher MHz ( go here for a place to start: http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~t-imai/g3ae1.html )

    Also ensure that all cards are fully seated (the PERCH slot card seems to dislodge easilt when mucking about with the guts).

    One other thought... some folks say that the Rev A ROM will not clock higher then 400MHz... I think this is bunk though as mine does just fine at 525Mhz... but maybe it is OK fo rme as I run a Sonnet ZIf... but it seems to me that TONS of people are runnin their A ROM Beige Gs at 400MHZ+ without issue.

  3. #3
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    thanks spaz2. ill give it a try

  4. #4
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    I ran Beige Rev A ROM MT with Sonnet G4/1000. The only issue was price and 10.3.2 compatible L2 enabler software.

    PowerLogix now has G3 1.0 GHz for $349.

  5. #5
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    I also have a rev1 rom g3-300 mt. How was that G4-1000?
    Worked well? How do you think it would match up to the Powerlogix G3-1000?

  6. #6
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    Arrow ROM revision issues

    Dear SCSI Wuzzi,

    Quote Originally Posted by scsi wuzzi
    I also have a rev1 rom g3-300 mt. How was that G4-1000?
    Worked well? How do you think it would match up to the Powerlogix G3-1000?
    For your information, the ROM revision issues beige G3 machines carried do *NOT* inhibit your capacity to upgrade RAM, nor the CPU.

    The three ROM versions have the following differences:

    1. Version 1 (aka as ver. "A") could only support a single Master drive on the ATA bus (thow this limitation was overcomed by employing OSX since ver. 10.1.5); did *NOT* play well with PCI cards complying with the PCI standard 2.1.b. Such ROM chip carried the revision number $77D.40F2.
    2. Version 2 (aka ver. "B") allowed a Master/Slave device setup on the ATA bus and complyed with PCI standard 2.1.b. Such ROM chip carried the revision number $77D.45F1.
    3. Version 3 (aka ver. "C"), added some minor compatabilities with the PCI standards, thow I still do not know exactly which. Such ROM chip carried the revision number $77D.45F2.

    However, another typicall Beige issue is represented by it's internal Voltage Regulator Module (aka VRM or VREG). Early Beige machine shipped with such VRM produced by a company called "ROYAL TECHNOLOGY"; the problem with such VREG is that it doesn't work properly with faster CPU upgrades and, certainly, not with G4 CPU upgrades.
    To check wheather you have such VREG installed inside your Beige machine, you'll need to remove such chip (which can be pulled without first removing the "Personality Card"), and check on it's TSOP surface for the Brand's name: if it spells "ROYAL TECHNOLOGY" you will need to replace it with another good one, like the ones sold by Creative Connections; if it reads "RAYTHEON", you have the new good VRM and you won't need to replace it.

    If you want to read other users' impressions and experiences with the various CPU upgrades available for the Beige machines, you may want to read through XLR8YOURMAC's "User Reports Database on CPU Upgrades". Just fill in on the pull-down menus and see for yourself the most recent reports.

    Keep in mind, though, that before upgrading the CPU on your Beige machine, you'll need to make sure to have the appropriate RAM installed in it, as most CPU upgrades will increase the FSB clocking frequency.
    IMHO, these are the minimum specs you need to look for your SDRAM modules, when evaluating a CPU upgrade:
    • SDRAM format as per JEDEC standards, 168 pins.
    • 3.3 volt compliant.
    • Maximum DRAM density: 128 Megabits.
    • Maximum number of DRAM devices on the module (as per JEDEC standards): 16.
    • PC-100 or above.
    • Refresh sequency rating of 10 ns or better.
    • NON PARITY SDRAM - I.e. no EEC memory or NO 72 bit memory modules.
    • CAS Latency = 2 @ 100MHz (at least) - Especially if you plan doing a CPU upgrade coupled with a FSB overclocking.


    HTH.
    Costa
    ________________________

    Ab ovo usque ad mala

  7. #7
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    May 2004
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    Thanks 4 the help!
    I use an Adaptec 2940 U2B scsi card. Is this a pci 2.1.b card?
    I plan on getting a g3-800 card so am i ok?
    Also,the only ata drives i plan to use would be the cd-rom and a cdrw.Is rev1 ok for this?
    I checked and i have the proper VRM.
    Last edited by scsi wuzzi; 05-31-2004 at 04:28 PM.

  8. #8
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    I can tell you one thing about fast G3 processors, they aren't as fast as a little bit slower G4 in OSX. I did a bunch of testing and ran a PL 900 GS in a B&W and it was noticeably slower in OSX than an XLR8 500 G4.

    That isn't to say there are things that will benefit from a faster G3, there are. Games, OS9 finder, a bunch of stuff. But memory usage and Altivec enhanced apps are seriously faster on the slower G4.

    Rick
    molṑn labe'
    "I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin

  9. #9
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    The only reason for not getting the G4/1000 is cost. You could move up to G4 range. But I agree with Rick on G4 vs G3 part. The $199 G4/500-600 is nice. Those G3's run hot, not a problem with MT. And, if I didn't mention before, my MT is a Rev A. Rev A also equals "revision 1 mobo" and the revision 2 mobo was used with Rev B and C ROM models.... until people started mixing things up.

    With a G4 or faster G3... essential to have to proper RAM.

    5 yrs ago, when I was buying a Blue G3, I read up and shopped for RAM before I even ordered the Yosemite. Only Club Mac back then was advertising or seemed to know about the "125 MHz and 8 ns." that those systems required. Not even TechWorks which shipped me 10 ns SDRAM (July '99).

    Changing a Beige G3 into G4/600+ is almost turning it in a Blue G3, but without the benefit of 100 Mhz bus or NewWorld architecture.

  10. #10
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    May 2004
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    The only reason for staying away from g4 is that i had a sonnet g3-450 on my 9600 which worked perfectly(until i fried it!)Whereas the g4-700 was pure disk corruption hell.It actually destroyed my 9 Gb Quantum!

    But would you say that upgrading the G3 is a better choice than the 9600?
    Aren't the bottlenecks worse on the 9600? I love the 6 pci slots but i only ever needed 3. Also cool that i can get an ATA cdrw for the G3.
    The rest will be ultra 160 drives on the 2940 U2B.
    Any info on why my 36Gb Fujitsu ultra 160 won't work with the original 4 Gb from the G3-300?
    I also found the Rev 2 rom on ebay. If i only use ATA cdrom & cdrw do i need this??

  11. #11
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    Exclamation CPU upgrade and peripherals compatability

    Dear SCSI Wuzzi,

    Quote Originally Posted by scsi wuzzi
    ....I use an Adaptec 2940 U2B scsi card. Is this a pci 2.1.b card?....
    Checking through the Adaptec web site, I have only found references to the PowerDomain 2940 U2W card. Looks like your 2940 U2B one was an Apple OEM card? You may want to contact Adaptec Support page, so as to see which kind of card you have and wheather you need to flash the card's BIOS to make it OSX compatible, or what else you need to do.
    If the card is already fitted inside your Beige G3 machine and it is working fine, then you shouldn't have any problems related to your ROM revision #.
    Others on these forums, with better SCSI experience than me, may have more precise reccomendations to post you reguarding your SCSI product and it's compatability with OSX and modern SCSI hard drives.

    Quote Originally Posted by scsi wuzzi
    ... The only reason for staying away from g4 is that i had a sonnet g3-450 on my 9600 which worked perfectly(until i fried it!)Whereas the g4-700 was pure disk corruption hell.It actually destroyed my 9 Gb Quantum!....
    IMHO, the XLR8 G4 ZIF processors upgrade looks like being a pretty stright forward upgrade, because:
    • You won't need to mess with the motherboard jumpers; all you need to do is to adjust the ones on the card to your liking.
    • The upgrade ships with the MAChSpeed Control software package which has been thoroughly tested to be compatible with OSX and Classic OS environments aswell.

    Thus, you should have no problems. And, in any event, we are always here to assist you, should the need arise.

    Quote Originally Posted by scsi wuzzi
    But would you say that upgrading the G3 is a better choice than the 9600?
    Definetly. The Beige G3 system comes with a better Front System Bus (=FSB) and a better Memory Controller, which enable you to run them at frequencies up to 83MHz, compared to the 50MHz FSB sported by the 9600.

    Quote Originally Posted by scsi wuzzi
    I also found the Rev 2 rom on ebay. If i only use ATA cdrom & cdrw do i need this??
    The Beige machines came with no USB or FireWire support. If you think you may need such ports over your upgrading program, so as to use modern peripherals (such as: printers, scanners, digital cameras, etc....), then you will need to fit an appropriate PCI card into one of your spare PCI slots, which will give you such compatability.
    Many (if not all) of such cards, require you to have at least a Revision 2 (or B) ROM chip fitted on board.
    If your upgrading program forsees *NO* such upgrade at any time in the future, then, as your logic board sports 2 indipendent ATA buses, you can easely fit the CD-ROM on one (Master) and the CD-RW on the other (Master). You will need to pull the eventual ZIP drive present.

    Hope the above has answered some of your questions.
    Costa
    ________________________

    Ab ovo usque ad mala

  12. #12
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    May 2004
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    I mostly use Cubase Vst 5.1 and from what i gather it is minimally Altivec enhanced. So maybe the g3-900 is better?

  13. #13
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    Exclamation Mmmm..... sounds like a G4 job to me....

    Dear SCSI Wuzzi,

    Quote Originally Posted by scsi wuzzi
    I mostly use Cubase Vst 5.1 and from what i gather it is minimally Altivec enhanced. So maybe the g3-900 is better?
    I don't know what other main applications you use or plan to use, but reading through CuBase web pages I got this:

    "The Power Mac G4 with its revolutionary PowerPC G4 with Velocity Engine delivers superior performance," said Clent Richardson, Apple's vice president of Worldwide Developer Relations.
    and

    "The Mac's ease-of-use and advanced media capabilities have always made it the computer of choice for musicians," comments Steve Garth, CEO of Steinberg North America. "Today the Power Mac G4 provides the raw power that Virtual Studio Technology needs,...
    Moreover, reading through the minimum requirements for CuBase VST 5.1, I see:
    • PowerMac G4 867 MHz (PowerMac G4 Dual 1,25 GHz or faster recommended)
    • RAM 384 MB (512 MB recommended)
    • Operating System Mac OS X 10.2.5 or higher
    • Sound Card
    • CoreAudio compatible audio hardware
    • Other USB component connector required, Display Resolution 1024 x 768 pixels (Display Resolution 1152 x 864 pixels, dual monitor setup recommended)
    Again, due to the above, it looks to me you are risking to waste your money on a G3 upgrade. You should be looking for a G4 CPU upgrade: the faster, the better.
    Also, it seems that if you like to use such application for recording music from some external device, this ought to have a USB connection for best compatability with the program. Thus, you will need to fit a third party USB card to your Beige machine.

    Just my humble 2 worth.

    Costa

  14. #14
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    the 2940U2B is OEM for B&W only and is supported only on that machine or later with any hope in OS X.

    The Beige is perfect for a G4. don't confuse it with your experinece on OldWorld Vintage pre-G3s. MOST OS X Beige users do opt for G4 if they can.

    I said twice, I've used G4/1000 and G4/500/533 and it works - ie, trouble free.

    ????

    Sonnet today (6/1/2004) :

    Sonnet Encore/ZIF G4/500MHz (G4/450 rated for 500MHz) $169.00
    Sonnet Encore/ZIF G4/700MHz - $249.00
    Sonnet Encore/ZIF G4/800MHz $299.00
    Sonnet Encore/ZIF G4/1GHz $397.99
    I wish 'Gurus had the G4/1GHz and 800 to offer, $300 - 400 is "nice" and really speeds-up OS X nicely.
    Last edited by TZ; 06-01-2004 at 06:50 AM.

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