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Thread: G4-733 needs a fan?

  1. #1
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    I have Digital Audio G4-533. I have an opportunity to put a 733 processor (for a Digital Audio) in it. Someone told me that I need a special heat-sink and a processor fan for this. It this true?

    If I have to have one of these, where can I get one. I really want to speed up my DA machine (without overclocking) and an Apple upgrade seems the safest. Hope someone can throw me a bone here. I'm pretty new to upgrading Macs.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Hey Rog,

    ?I think you're safe with the same monster heatsink that came on the DA. Apple didn't do anything special between the 533, 667 and 733 processors, they all had the same sink. No fan attached on any of them.

    ?If you have any doubts though about cooling you should be able to find a free utility that will monitor cpu temp, one of the smart folks around here can probably tell you which and where. Adding a fan for cpu cooling would not be hard, (actually a fan that blows across the heatsink is all you could get since it really covers the cpu) most computer parts shops for PCs would have many types that could be added. But I think the power supply fan moves plenty of air across the heatsink and you shouldn't have to worry about it.

    Rick

  3. #3
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    Thanks ricks.

    How sure are you of that? The guy that told me that seems awfully sure of himself (says they are an Apple dealer/service center).

    He says he is 100% sure that all Macs at 733 or higher have CPU cooling fans and a different heat sink including the Digi-Audio 733's. I don't want to call either of you a liar. I'm just getting conflicting info, here and don't know what to do. I'm rather a newbie at playing with Mac hardware like the
    processor. Video cards, ram or even hard drive I've done -- I've not done
    this before except on my PM9500.

    Thanks again,
    Bruce

  4. #4
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    Well Bruce,

    ?I am going by memory. We can do better, let's ask Randy what his 733 has in the way of cpu fans. My 867 has a small fan on the rear of the sink so I can see where Apple might have had a fan on the 733.

    ?Installing a cpu fan shouldn't be to big of a deal, any computer component store should have them, like Frys.

    ?Anyway, I post an email to Randy and we'll find out what his 733 has in it, I don't remember if his was a Quicksilver or a DA though so we'll have to see what his answer is.

    Rick

  5. #5
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    I did want to clarify one thing. He didn't say there was a fan on the heat sink. He said there is a fan in a shroud blowing on the heat sink (just like the QuickSilvers) and that the heat sink was different because of that (I guess
    the fins are supposed to be more like they are on the QuickSilver). I've not seen a rig like this.

    My QuickSilver 733 has the fan and there is a "grill" and a mounting point at the back of the Digi-Audio case just like there is in the QuickSilver case. A friend of mine

    Thanks again,
    Bruce

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    Roger

    Welcome to GURU's

    Rick asked if I could shed some light. He knew l looked extensively at the DA's 466, 533,733's about 10 months ago (good machines) but I don't remember any specifics about the fans. I would first think that they were all the same? - I also seem/want to remember that there were 2 slighty different 733's?? I lost a lot of info a while back "bookmarks of great info" and I am getting it back slowly.

    I ended up buying a QS 733 because by the time I had the money the DA's were scarce. Sounds like you have the same machine. I will look around and see if I can dig something up about a DA - probably everything but a good diagram.

    Randy

    [This message has been edited by rwm2 (edited 06 September 2002).]

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    This talks about it some but does not really nail it. http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/low_noise_fans.html

    I did not check the links off it...

    Randy

  8. #8
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    Howdy! Glad to be here.

    Checked out the page and it seems to echo what I've been told about the G4 DA boxes having fans. They have a fan grill and a fan mount between the processor and the case backplane. My G4-DA is a 533 and does not have a fan. I bought a 733 CPU and wanted to be sure whether I needed to put a fan on it or not. Looks like I should.

    I'm not too happy with the fan noise from my QuickSilver 733 (or the lack of L3 cache on it). So some alternatives for a fan was good information. But I'm pretty straight-laced when it comes to putting things in my Macs. So I'll probably get an Apple fan and shroud for it. Even though the fan in my QS sounds like a jet engine (almost as loud as my P4 PC).

    I wasn't sure if I should trust the guy that told me I needed to put a fan and shroud on the DA with a 733 CPU because he was trying to sell me the fan and shroud. At least I know he wasn't just trying to make a quick buck by selling me something I didn't need.

    Thanks for the help Ricks and RWM (Randy). :cool

  9. #9
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    No definite answers. Can't locate anyone yet with a DA 733. And even if the 733 did not have a fan - an extra one would be great on maintaining performance and longevity in your hardware - keep em cool.

    Here is some interesting reading - Barefeats. If ya have not seen this yet. About half way down there are several comparison articles about the 733's. http://www.barefeats.com/speedtests.html

    Randy

    [This message has been edited by rwm2 (edited 07 September 2002).]

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    Barefeats got me thinking - I will agree with you on the fan noise in the/my QS 733 but can deal with it. But still wonder about that L3 cache and if I will ever wish I went another route. It looks by Barefeats comparisions my needs won't make a difference with or without the L3 - only time will tell.

    Randy

  11. #11
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    Hey Randy / Ricks,

    I read the barefeats article about the test between the DA-733 and QS-733. The DA-733 should be faster due to the L3 cache that it has and the QS doesn't. Other than that, they're about the same I think. The bus improvements on the QS logic board don't seem to have been enough to make up the difference, either. It might for I/O intensive applications but for raw power, it seems not to have made any difference at all.

    Whether the DA-733 had a fan or not, I'm convinced I should put a fan on it. The heatsink on my DA-533 barely got warm to the touch. I can't imagine that the 733 makes that much more heat that a fan is required. But you can never tell with these things. The heatsink on my QS-733 is always cool to the touch. Too bad the V'Ger chip doesn't have the temp sensor. I would have liked to see a temperature comparison of it with the fan on and fan off. Of course the heatsink on the QS boxes is pretty massive even compared to the one on the Digital Audio boxes.

    A friend of mine has a QS dual 800 (867?) that he's taken the heat sink and fan off of and installed a water cooling system. It's nice and quiet but I'd be scared to death of water leaks (POOF! -- there goes 2 grand...).

    ASIDE: The video card (GeForce2MX) is the hottest thing in my DA machine. The heatsink on that will burn you. Anyone know if it's possible to install a fan on that?

    My DA-533 never reported temps above 78 degrees fahrenheit. Even when the room temp was at 75. Of course, I found out that it was actually a G4-400 after it died. Putting that 100Mhz bus processor in a machine with a 133Mhz bus pumped it up to 533Mhz and that's what all the utils saw. I guess the 33% overclock was too much for it, in the end. That's what I get for buying a used machine, I guess. (dang Macinsteins...)

    Anybody know a place to identify the various Apple processor modules by part number? I know there are two variations of the 820-1175 (-A and -02). One of these is a G4-466 the other is a G4-533. It would be nice to have a way to verify that all these processors people are selling are what they say they are and not something that is in the wrong machine or has been modified.

    /me goes back to lurking...

    Cheers all,
    Bruce

  12. #12
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    Just an FYI update on this topic and a general question:

    I bought a G4-733 for my digital audio. This processor module is different from the processor module originally on my DA box. It has a fan plug and the module is physically different. The heat sink from my "normal" DA won't fit on the 733. The coil sticks up too high.

    So, I looked at the configuration on my QuickSilver and noticed that the processor modules on those have the same thing (a vertical coil) and the heatsink is built with a "lip" that overhangs that coil.

    I can put my "normal" heatsink on this processor (just to be sure it works) backwards but it blocks two of my RAM slots, then. And it doesn't fit on the
    processor heat transfer pad well, either. The pad on the 733 is elongated (front to rear) where the other DA modules are square(ish).

    I have the heatsink a friend gave me off his QuickSilver 867 (he installed a dual processor module on his with water cooling...) and it appears to fit okay on this processor. AllMac sells the QuickSilver processor fan module for $29.95. I think I'll buy one of those and see how it works. This might work out pretty well. (and relatively cheap, too)

    Does anyone know where to get that black processor heat transfer "gel" that Apple puts on the bottom of their heatsinks? It would be nice to be able to "refurb" this heatsink rather than having to clean it and put another type of compound on it.

    Cheers all,
    Bruce

  13. #13
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    HI ya Bruce,

    ?Man, have you done some research! Great work. I have no idea where you can get the conductive paste that Apple uses, maybe one of Apple's certified (certifiable?) repair centers?

    ?I have one of the GeForce3 cards and they put a little processor fan on it. It certainly needs it, nVidia went out of their way to make a hot but FAST s.o.b. processor on those cards. Wonder if the same itsy-bitsy fan would work on the GF2?

    ?I have an extra XLR8 upgrade processor fan that came with a G4 zif. If you want it you can have it for shipping. It also is not very big. Email me.

    Rick

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    Hi Ricks,

    Yeah, I can be really stubborn (my wife tells me ). It helped a lot having a QuickSilver machine to compare to my DA.

    The QuickSilver and Digital Audio systems are more similar than they are different it would seem. I think the logic board from either would work in either case. The PSU's are different but the logic boards look like they are interchangeable. The processors are not easily interchangeable due to the +12v required on the fourth screw on the QS processor module. But otherwise they are nearly identical. I think it was a good move to put the fan plug on the logic board rather than the processor module in the QS machines.

    The fan on the QS will work fine on the DA except for one thing. The power lead is too short. It needs to be about 2 inches longer. I can fix that easily, though. I took the cpu fan from my QS and hooked it up on my DA system. It worked just fine. I shut it down then checked to see that the fan would mount correctly on the case backplane. It fits perfectly.

    From what I can tell everything on a DA and QS is interchangeable except for the PSU and the processor module. The processor module for a DA will probably work on a QS straight up (needs a longer fan lead, though). And if you can rig up +12v power to that screw mount, the QS processors will work in other G4's. I've seen one done that way over on XLR8YOURMAC.

    Now that I understand more about these machines, I'm beginning to have a little fun with it.

    PC Power and Cooling sells a graphics accelerator fan kit. I just don't know how to get the heatsink off the video card safely. If anyone can help with that I'd appreciate it. They sell a kit for cards with heat sinks but that looks like a kludge. I'd rather use their really slick looking aluminum heatsink/fan. I think it would probably work better, anyway.

    Cheers all,
    Bruce



    [This message has been edited by rogerwilco99 (edited 18 September 2002).]

  15. #15
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    Just an update on this G4-733 Digital Audio.

    I put in the 733, the quicksilver heatsink and fan. It runs great. I had to lengthen the fan lead by about 2 inches but it fits and works perfectly. It's a little more noisy with the CPU fan but only a little. I ran it for several hours playing Quake 3 and Medal of Honor then opened the case. The heatsink was warm but not hot.

    I am a little concerned about the amount of heat built up in the case over the course of those hours playing. I could feel the warm air come out when I opened the side of the case. I'm wondering if more ventilation might be in order but I don't want to make the machine even louder.

    Overall, I'm satisfied that this cpu/heatsink/fan rig will work out fine. The only real heat concern I have is for the optical drive and the ZIP drive since they are in the top of the case. I guess Apple designed the machine to run a little hot. So I probably shouldn't worry too much.

    Cheers all,
    Bruce

  16. #16
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    Bruce,

    ?thanks for laying out all your work for us. Someday it will come in handy I'm sure. I wonder what the upgrades to 800 and 1gig processors are going to come with as a cooling solution? Your travels do make one wonder.

    Great thread, and again, thanks for sharing.

    Rick

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