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Thread: Sonnet 500 is a 466?

  1. #41
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    I think the use of a 466MHz processor for their 500MHz upgrades is something recent. The tip came recently and I'd expect based on the source it would have come sooner if this had been going on for longer.

    We have some other interesting reports that we still need to confirm. I really hope we aren't able to as it will potentially indicate Sonnet has done this with some other upgrade models in the past.

    One thing that is for sure, neither us, or Smalldog (who also checked a 450MHZ out) have a label that looks anything like that silkscreen 333 or 450 marking in the Sonent faq. I will give them the benefit of the doubt (others have suggested Photoshop) and continue our further investigation of the actual part numbers with IBM.

    None of these upgrades are cheap, I just want to make sure customers are getting what they are paying for. That is only right.

    My biggest issue has to do protecting those that don't want anything to do with a product that runs anything other than by the book. Those that want an upgrade that is not overclocked or tweaked because their work demands the best possible reliability and is not something they want to compromise for any gains. Some upgrades let you overclock by choice, it isn't right that a 466 has been tweaked to 500 with customers thinking otherwise.

  2. #42
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    i think you did the right thing, Larry.

  3. #43
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    ...as do I... oh...anyone from sonnet out there that would be willing to give me a refund or exchange???

  4. #44
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    "Some upgrades let you overclock by choice, it isn't right that a 466 has been tweaked to 500 with customers thinking otherwise."

    ...........that line says it all. Good for you Larry for calling Sonnet out on this....

    Whoever made the call on this one at Sonnet, stepped in it big time.

    To put another angle on this: I was in a local hardware store a few weeks back. bought a few things, nothing major. I paid, and the cashier handed me back my change, turned to me slightly, almost in slight repose and looked me dead on in the eye and said :

    "Thank you VERY much for your business". I was so surprised, my mouth dropped open, literally I think. I smiled and said "You're sure welcome."

    The only hardware store that gets my money now.

    Are you listening Sonnet?

    just my 2

    c8

    [This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 22 January 2002).]

  5. #45
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    Here's three reason's why I think Sonnet is dead wrong and OWC-L should be commended:

    1) People who are not idiots do not want to be treated like idiots.

    2) People who ARE idiots do not want to be treated like idiots.

    We (collectively) just want to know what we are spending our spending our money for. Those modern day bright boys who think blue-balled hard drives for the almighty dollar at the bottom line constitute a business ethic are in for nothing but some hillbilly justice. Burn with the rest of the Techies or learn the facts of life (they haven't changed in the new millenium).

    3) There is more to physics than heat.

    Although IBM may have statistically tested a batch of processor chips to run at 450 MHz at certain temperatures, that does not constitute a statistically valid argument that those same chips will operate at 500 MHz at certain lower temperatures within the same failure rate parameters. Testing (and certification) is an empiric process and when we pay for a chip, we pay for that process. There's no marketing spin that can replace the facts.

    my $0.02

  6. #46
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    Thanks for resuscitating the forums Mag....

    Well said MM.......

    c8

  7. #47
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    thanks, dave.

    turns out the posts all still exist as data files, but a .threads files just lists one post in SCSI, for some reason. We have to rebuild that file, and that should be that. We're getting there.

  8. #48
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    Hegel would be so proud.....what a great use of the dialectic right here on the Processor Upgrades forum...who'd a thunk?

    I went back and forth with the arguments, and since I'm not the system tweaker like many involved (a smooth boot makes me happy), I may not have been as offended initially as I would have been otherwise.

    All in all, I guess I landed on the side that this could be Sonnet's ENRON, however unfortunate. Their ultimate reaction to all this will be vital to them.

  9. #49
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    well, i think the whole thing blew over, just as Sonnet was hoping.

    i'm wondering if we should pull the Sonnet page on our site, then issue a press release announcing it? That might put it back on the public radar....

    or maybe we should just move on? No one really seems to care. I mean, so we caught Sonnet acting in a duplicitous, selfish manner. Do we really expect companies to act morally?

  10. #50
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    This all makes me really glad I took the Guru's advice and bought an XLR8 Product. No wonder Sonnet doesn't want you to remove the heat sink. It's kinda like buying a car and they won't let you open the hood......

    ------------------
    I started out with nothing.
    I still have most of it left!

  11. #51
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    You know, I got a little different take on this. I had a friend stop by who's a VP at Intel (I know, the enemy), he looked over this thread and was not surprised or even negative toward the business practice that Sonnet is using.

    This is fairly common that third party manufacturers retest and redesign their products with altered specifications on many of the components used in the finished products. He went so far as to say that we can't even expect that the failure rate will be significantly different with the new rating on the cpu chip.

    Sonnet designs from the groud up upgrade cards that go into computers never intended to have G3 or G4 cards, even in models without a removable cpu. If they can be trusted to build working upgrades in that capacity, why not this. None of the things they do in those cases fit any kind of standard.

    The only company whos name stands behind the uprated chip is Sonnets, they stand to be the ones to lose credability, not IBM. Calling attention to the issue should also resolve any conflicts that a retailer might have with recommending them.

    I do applaud the attention put into this by the Magician. His consideration for his customers goes way above and beyond.

    Rick

  12. #52
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    Well...initially Sonnet G3 500mhz ZIF installed in my Beige G3 seemed to be running well. But...within a week of installation encountered a rash of apparently random events which have included:
    1) Random shutdowns (on three sep. occaisions the G just turns off???)
    2) Extensive and frequent Disk Frag (I need to defrag every 2nd day and Apps frequently crap out due to bus errors and inability to find resources).
    3) Directory corruption hell...

    Disk frag and directory corruption have continued daily. Disk Warrior appears to fix the problem but a day after repair the situation returns. I've done a clean install, zeroed all data and reformated, I even used Norton System Works (which has often just made things worse in my experience). I've flashed the pram, reset the cuda and logic bd., checked the battery, reseated the PCI cards and ZIF, pulled the ram and run a couple of diagnostic tools, and returned to stock config. (minus the ZIF and the Acard/Sonnet IDE controller (Ultra 66/6280) but it persists.

    I'm not sure it is the Sonnet upgrade but it is the only new pc of hrdwre I've installed. I suppose I can find an old 266 and see if it continues but I'd rather not sacrifice the speed. So...I suppose the question might be to inquire if the issues described above might be related the the upgrade? Callin' all MacGurus...

    Setup...

    OS 9.2.1
    Beige Rev A 266 w Sonnet 500mhz ZIF (an overclocked 466c chip).
    Apple A/V Personality Card
    384mbs ram
    PCI IDE controller card (Sonnet/Acard Ultra Tempo 66)
    PCI USB card
    Voodoo5/5000 or Just the Rage11+DVD MoB based card.
    Sony 145 CDRW and/or Apple original CD-rom drive...

  13. #53
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    Oh oh, just what you need with the debate a ragin' about the Sonnet is a wierd problem!

    Try doing a memory test with XLR8s Power Control with Power Frax running in the background. If your having issues with the CPU or memory this ought to show it. Run the thing overnight, if hardware is good it will do that with 0 errors. Oh and turn off all energy savers.

    Just in case, you can get PWR Control on the Gurus ftp site at:
    ftp://ftp.macgurus.com/ftp/xlr8_stuff/

    Rick

  14. #54
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    Well, ,it seems you may have a problem, but as far as Norton ever being close to your Mac, you may wish to use DiskWarrior/Plus optimiser to be sure it's not the Big Guys from h...E... Double Hockey stics syndrome!

  15. #55
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    the fastest way to confirm that the problem is due to a defective processor is to revert back to the stock ZIF and see if the problems vanish.

    if so, then reconfirm by reinstalling the new ZIF, and duplicating the problems again. If you can, then you've got a culprit.

    it actually may be a little more complex than that, but I would consider this adequate cause for an RMA and at least and exchange, if not a refund.

    do not get rooked into letting them (or anyone) charge you a restocking fee. Particularly not for returning defective hardware. If you need guidance on this, let me know. It is my pet peeve.


  16. #56
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    with thnx...i've got a couple of G3 266 cpu's and i'm gonna check 'em out tommorow and maybe through to monday then switch back to the upgrade...i'm getting very tired of reformating and defrag'n every day...it is gettin so bad that by day's end the system freezes/crashes until rebuilt...hdd issues accelarate when using ATI xclaim TV and while Video Editing w F.C.P. and Strata use but general web surfin' and report writing also result in the issues noted above and below athough at a slower rate...i still suspect the Sonnet card...i hope i'm wrong as i am certain i've managed to evoke an anger responce w the boys at Sonnet so they may be less then helpful (again)...

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