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Thread: What all will I need to upgrade?

  1. #1
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    I own an 8500/180 and it desperately needs a processor upgrade. I'm leaning towards the XLR8 Carrier Card with 440-466 G3, but what I'm wondering is how much work will this require? At first, I thought upgrade cards could be plugged right in and work, but after reading some of these posts, it looks as if there are many things that must be tweaked to get it to run. Will I need a new cooling system? Will I need new RAM? Please help I'm kinda getting lost in all of this information... (BTW, I have a Voodoo3 card in the machine which is infamous for getting very hot.)

  2. #2
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    THe XLR8 Carrier with the 466 Mhz CPU would be your best bet. They are plug and play. The people that get in trouble usually weren't prepared properly. They had slow and/or weak/bad RAM; florfed OS's, screwed up SCSI busses and devices, etc. G3's are far less forgiving than stock CPU's.

  3. #3
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    "florfed"????

    XLR8's are the way to go...pretty much a real example of seamless upgrading - done about 4 of them w/ no problem whatsoever...

    Chris

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    Damn, Louie...I love that word. The few times I have seen you use it make me laugh.

    Well, the card itself should be a plug-n-play deal. Cooling in that machine should be OK. Just use a utility (XLR8 has a great one) for checking in on your CPU temp occasionally. They usually work well. Ram might be an issue. G3 upgrades like to have speedy. high-quality RAM. How much do you have and do you know where it came from (speed, etc)? Worst case scenario, you might need to fiddle with the RAM or buy a couple new modules. But seriously, most folks have no troubles with that upgrade.

  5. #5
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    I have no idea what kind of RAM is in the machine... We bought the whole system used with 110 MB of RAM, a 15" monitor, and two hard drives (1.5 and 2 gig) for $350. How can I figure out the type of RAM in it?

  6. #6
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    Ground yourself, pull the RAM modules. if you find a 6, -6. 60, 6A at the end of a string of numbers, it's 60 nanosecond RAM. That's what you want. If it has any form of "7" at the end, that's not good.

    Before you open the machine up to look at the RAM, check the Apple System Profiler and note what it says about the size a location of each RAM module; ie. A1 8MB, B1 16MB. etc. You want to have matched pairs in A4/B4, A3/B3, etc for interleaving and increased memory performance. (Later lesson).

    Try to match them while you have them out.

  7. #7
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    Is "Florfed" not used in Canada? It is much nicer than its meaning.

  8. #8
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    Titan - I will back anyone up on XLR8 Carriers - they ROCK. The cool thing about them is you can get a 333Mhz or so, to save money and then upgrade later to a faster G3/4 when they are out. I would get a 333Mhz min - I have achieved 400Mhz with a 'PC' heatsink & fan combo. The 466Mhz are a great deal to - and they have a 10X ratio - so often people can get 500Mhz (max) out of them.

    It sounds like XLR8 is going to offer some kind of rebate to trade up from the Carrier 1 to Carrier 2 models. This could enable you to run dual G4/450s

    Also on RAM - you would normally want 128 to 256MB+ if you are going to be playing any new games - like UT, Q3, Diablo2, etc... Of course if you are a Photoshop jock you may want more. Interleaving is key- with good RAM and an XLR8 upgrade you should have no issues with this and it will give you about 10% overall performance boost. Upgrading RAM is about the hardest thing to do with the 8500 style case. CPU and PCI upgrades are fairly easy otherwise.

    The V3 are not nearly as hot at the V5s. When I removed my V5 form my PTPro case (its very well ventilated) my CPU temp droped about 10F.

  9. #9
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    I will pull out the RAM later today. But, what is interleaving and what will it do?

  10. #10
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    Intereleaving is providing the system with identical memory modules in corresponding-numbered slots (A4-B4, A2-B2, etc). It allows the system to (basically) acces both modules in a faster pattern, doubling the data path size in the machine. Most machines see a 5-15% increase in memory speed with it interleaved. A lot of older upgrade cards were made unhappy if memory was interleaved. IN the past couple years, though, most cards I have dealt with have no problems so long as the memory is quality 60ns or better RAM.

  11. #11
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    "florfed".. must be a Quebecois term - perhaps "en joual" as it were ;-)...

    Perhaps "hosed" would be a truly Canadian descriptor (a la Bob and Doug Mackenzie and the Great White North - back bacon and all ;-) )...

    Chris.

  12. #12
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    Well, I looked at the Apple System Profiler and all of the memory is already interleaved. 112MB of RAM is divided into 8MB in slots A1 and B1 and 16MB in slots A2, B2, A3, B3, A4, and B4. I pulled the thing apart and was met by mass confusion... First we tried to pull the logic board out but stopped because we would have to pull all of the cards out, so we decided that wasn't right. Then we looked at it for a bit more, but to no avail. If someone could guide us through the process of pulling this mass of wires and connectors apart, I would be grateful...

  13. #13
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    I found a site that tells how to do it... It turns out that my first instinct was right. Whew, this is going to take some time!

  14. #14
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    Alright, I'm done... Here are my findings:

    A1: 8MB 70ns
    B1: 8MB 60ns
    A2: 16MB 60ns
    B2: 16MB 60ns
    A3: 16MB 70ns
    B3: 16MB 70ns
    A4: 16MB 60ns
    B4: 16MB 60ns

    I will probably end up pulling all of the 70ns and the 8MB 60ns and buy two 32 MB modules. I would have 128 MB of interleaved memory, which will be enough until I get everything else.

  15. #15
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    i posted a breakdown of the 9500 about a week ago, too bad you didn't see that before you started. It should be about the same as the 8500. here's a question of my own, i took sys. prfiler off a machine with os 8.something, but on my machine with 7.5 it only shows how much ram i have not what slots they're in. any ideas?

  16. #16
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    Ti, that sounds like a good plan. If you are looking to part out with some 16MB sticks, I could use them in a 7500 for now.

    Yikes, prof. No idea there. I am guessing the SysProfiler is looking through the system and is getting a little baffled at the fact it is on a lower-level OS machine. There is a better explanation, I know. What was your intent in doing this, just out of curiousity? Does everything else report fine?

  17. #17
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    What would give more of a performance boost, two 32 MB modules or a 128? The 128 is much cheaper than buying two 32's, and I'm wondering if interleaving will be worth the extra cash... I could always get another 128 in the future if needed.

  18. #18
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    Each newer version of Apple System Profiler gets more refined, Prof. The one in OS 9.1 whistles "Dixie".

  19. #19
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    the performance boost delivered by interleaving, in a machine already upgraded with a G3 daughtercard, is so minimal that it makes sense to buy the 128MB DIMM, IMO.

  20. #20
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    The reason I got it from the other machine was I didn't have it on the 9500. I was hoping to see what dimms were in what slot before I ordered new ram, but it only showed total installed meemory. Not that big of a deal now since I already have the ram in and know what dimms are in there.

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