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Thread: late to the G3 BW rev 1 IDE party

  1. #1
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    It sez so right in the ad... "up to 100 gigs internal storage". After testing my patience using a 660AV to get some video editing and music done for my band and hobby websites, I went out and bought a spankin' new G3 BW in May '99 (just got my fattest royalty check ever that April). Didn't take long to fill the 6G Fireball with miniDV. I shopped for CDRW as a way to offload and free up space. That's how I found the Gurus. At the time, the Plextor was a nice idea but way outta budget. Got a Smart and Friendly bundled with scsi card, but still needed a separate "media" drive. Then I bought IBM 18G in fall'99. Seemed to work with no-name 40 wire IDE 2 drive connector that I got at local PC shop, with IBM as slave in first position to minimize dropped frames in miniDV etc.
    Never did work all that well and I didnt hunt the boards looking for solutions. Got distracted doing other stuff (see bio).
    A few months back (Sept 03) the Fireball was DOA with the IBM 18 a close second, so I got an IBM 34GXP 20G 7200 rpm ($50. cheap!) from another pc shop in the hood as new media drive and use IBM 18G as system drive.
    That's when all hell broke loose. After countless sys installs (clean and otherwise), update from 8.6 throught the whole 9.xx sequence, zero write initializations, TechTool/Norton manuevers, my media not only wouldn't mount, but by time it did, my data looked like scrambled eggs (I hate eggs!) I figure, dump the ol' IBM 18 and got a new WD800JB week ago fri. Same stuff...
    Then lo and behold, I hit the boards and find out my trusty rev 1 G3 couldnt handle multiple drives! NOW THEY TELL ME! aaarrrggghh!!
    I've seen a few fixes from old posts but I am not thoroughly convinced (like Promise cards, Intech HDST or FWB). After all these years, is there a proven remedy short of dropping the pretty blue and white box from the roof of a tall building?
    ( http://oogamooga.com "kill your TV")
    I am soooo glad you guys are BACK!!
    Here's what's up... G3 BW rev 1 (born Valentine's Day '99), 384MB of "Mac Solutions" ram (for a hi zoot oufit, they have the cheapest ram anywhere. And they DO honor lifetime warranty. I just swapped out a 256 I got from them '00!). The WD800JB jumped to slave is at the end of the 40 wire (ATA 80 wont see the drives??? and will not mount OR initialize in #1) with IBM 20 set to master in #1 spot (nothing like juggling jumpers!). Video from Mac Addict CD plays well in QT 6 double size from stock cd rom and IBM 20, but my shiny new WD800JB still wont play more than a short while even in normal size without crashing. I downloaded that corruption tester I found at acceler8 and those files are indeed getting scarmbled... by the rev 1 IDE controller? Pull the WD and everything is OK. But I would like to have the speed and storage that i got for $75 vs a couple hun for scsi solution. I'd like to be able to get going on my projects.My focus is mainly web and a large cash outlay is not in the cards.
    What should I put in my letter to Santa? And, as a backup, what can this bad boy do on his own? I humbley await your response...

    ps free massive no spam or banner website for 3 years and 5.99/yr domaine reg at http://www.1and1.com promotion ends 1/15/04.
    The price is definitely right. Check it out.

  2. #2
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    The rev.1 IDE problem is kind of a pain, but with the addition of an ATA card, or a SATA card, you can put quite a bit of storage into those enclosures. If you cant afford to dish out for a new system, controller cards run about $75 for both types. Certainly cheaper than SCSI (though if you have a few drives laying around, money spent on a SCSI card is money well spent)

  3. #3
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    thanx for the reply.
    In a G3 BW rev 1 (300) OS 9.2, which ATA card works best?
    I'm looking at the ads for Promise Ultra 100 TX2 $35, or Adaptec 1200A Raid $79. I currently have 4 IDE/ATA drives laying around (Fireball 6G, IBM 18G '99, IBM GXP34 20G '00 and new WD800JB 7/03), no scsi hard drives and would like to avoid the SATA connector hassles (SATA converter, another $40).What other cards are out there that have proven to work with data rates like miniDV?
    Also what about Intech's Hard Disk SpeedTools ($60) claim to solve the problem, besides changing the DMA to multiword?

  4. #4
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    nickTV,

    ?Nice saga. That B&W has got to be like an old friend by now, you've been through a lot with it. Don't toss it yet. Two things come to mind every time a thread starts about B&W's. Ram and a controller card.

    ?With ram, even though you have gotten it from trusty suppliers, you should take the few moments to test it with Dimm First AId to be certain it is fast enough. Too much ram got sold for B&Ws that was 10 NS, the most common problem on the B&W. You must have 8 NS or faster for reliable operation. You can get Dimm First Aid Here

    ?As far as controllers go you can take your pick. ATA, SATA or SCSI. I installed SATA in our B&W and use it for a file server. It runs just fine for that. I also installed a Siig ATA133 host card in that B&W so I could have four drives, all Masters. 2 ATA and 2 SATA. The SATA beat the ATA in performance hands down.

    ?If you already own SCSI cables and or drives then you might consider an Initio Miles2 host card. They seem to work in anything, with anything in the way of drives. The one we sell also comes with cable and terminator making it a pretty good bargain.

    ?The SATA card means you'd also need SATA hard drives. The Firmtek card runs under $70. There is a plethora of great SATA drives in HUGE sizes to choose from.

    ?Picking what bus spec you want is the hard part. Any of the solutions will work very well in the B&W. Cost versus performance probably weighs towards the SATA card and drive.

    And welcome back!

    Rick

    Quis Custodiet Custodes Ipsos?

  5. #5
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    Hey Nick,

    As a fellow Rev1 owner, I feel your pain. I went throught the same, even using the BW as a doorstop (literally!) for 2 months, before I found the Gurus a couple years back.

    I popped a SIIG ATA controller (the SIIG is a rebranded ACARD) in and it has been rock solid ever since.

    Just put a genuine Gurus Firmtek SATA board in a Beige G3 at work, and wow! Great speed increase. Can't wait to move up to SATA in my Rev1. . . I know alot of the speed increase is the newer drives themselves, but if I were in your shoes, I would go Firmtek all the way.

    Actually, if you decide to go PATA, maybe you would like buy my SIIG and I will buy a Gurus SATA setup. . .

    __________________

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    [This message was edited by unclemac on Mon December 01, 2003 PT at 10:14.]

  6. #6
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    Add a good host card Sonnet, ACard, SIIG and that new drive will show up all your older drives. Your new drive should perform much better than old drives. ATA drives have been getting better/faster by about 20% each year. I have 2 - 18 gig 10K SCSI Cheetahs that are only 2 years old and they have reads/writes of about 40 mb/sec - the newer ATA drives can deliver that speed and SATA even faster.

    My 2 cents is a host card and RAM. Yes add some good 8ns RAM. Macs love RAM.

    Randy

  7. #7
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    Nick,

    When shopping, always make sure you are looking at "Mac-compatible" and avoid the cheap PC-only cards. Though I think, back-for-buck, those $67 SeriTek/1s2 cards are great. SATA drives ($80-140) are also a good value and investment. SCSI performance, works in your 66 MHz slot, can be used in later sytems w/o trouble. You'd pay almost the same for an ATA controller.

    Eventually, you might want to look at the PowerLogix G3/900 ($239?) and video card as well. With 512MH of RAM or more, these boxes run Panther very well. Lot of fun. You can add DVD/CDRW or "SuperDrive" later also.

    FireWire is "iffy" and you want to eventually invest in a cheap FW card, or combo card if you plan to use FW drives or for video, digital camera etc.

    Memory: Crucial is selling PC133 and PC100 256MB for Yosemite at $69 ea right now. Guaranteed, safest RAM you can buy.

  8. #8
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    wow. cool.
    Thanx for the tips guys. I'm thinkin, do the ata card thing for now, then later sell my box for $3-400 (?) and score a used G4. for the $1-200 to solve my multi drive problem, maybe better invested in G4?
    If I go that way, what should I look out for?
    and by the way how much for a Guru card?
    nickTV
    http://oogamooga.com

  9. #9
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    I think you will find that the card will solve some of your multi-drive problems.

    I had some qusetions about SATA this answers most of it right here.

    Randy

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by unclemac:
    Hey Nick,


    if you decide to go PATA, maybe you would like buy my SIIG and I will buy a Gurus SATA setup. . .

    __________________

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  11. #11
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    wanna check my ID? or the grey wasnt a dead give away?
    I'm flattered...I think

  12. #12
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    Junior?

    ?Well, the junior would be kinda cool if it did reflect age. Most of us here will never grow up anyway, so maybe the longer we hang out here the younger our membership tag should be instead of the other way around.

    ?However, the current system is that new members have a 'Junior' tag until some fairly small number of posts. The game is to see if you catch the change to FULL member. With a full membership you get a free G5 from Apple for only a $1699 registration fee That and a buck'll buy you a cup of coffee.

    Welcome to the forums no matter what your title is. Just watch out for those kooks with the Moderator or Ruler titles. They have more than a few screws loose.

    Rick

    Quis Custodiet Custodes Ipsos?

  13. #13
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    2 cents:
    G4. if you are doing video, the altivec will make up for the cost and future capability will far outlast the G3 you have now.

  14. #14
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    How many loose screws does it take to go from Moderator to ruler?

    Damien,

    Damien's Stuff

  15. #15
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    i get it, rick.
    and the way things are goin, i could work my way up to toddler!
    hey bif, yes the g4 thought has crossed the old noodle. i even found a relatively new oufit on sunset blvd here in deepest darkest Hollywood called Compuplus (from the OFFICIAL Apple retail list). the tech was even cool enough to go to ebay and the recycler and shop used G4s with me (over the phone and on the net of course. got T1 at work but a PII box... life is hell).
    So gang, I think i can get $300 from a neighbor for my G3 9.2 with 128 ram, 18G HD and all the goodies (ps, fcp, illus, flash 5 +++), maybe even throw in the smart and friendly scsi cdrw). With a single drive and moderate use, it's a rock solid machine. Is that a fair deal??
    What kinda G4 can I expect for $500?

    until then, unclemac, how about that card??
    Thanx for everything guys. I got quite the edumacation outa this trip.
    GURUS RULE!!!

  16. #16
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    Well, first I would have to knock off a liquor store to actually get my SATA gear, so it would be a couple weeks at the earliest before I could get it to you. I am about 4 hours north of LA area, so 1-2 days to ship.

    Heck I dunno, card+tax+freight was about $80+ as I recall, so how about $50 and I pack it properly and ship? Can throw in 2 std length ATA cables (about 12"), so you would be ready to plug and play 2 drives as Masters on seperate channels, or 4 as Master/Slave combos. They come new with one cable in the box.

    It is a factory stock SIIG 133 controller, never flashed the firmware or anything, has run perfect with 9.2, 10.1, 10.2, and 10.3. Nice thing about the SIIGs: 5 year warranty, this one is about 2 years old.

    Is 2-3 weeks too late?

    Either PATA or SATA is a nice controller with a real speed increase, whether you stay G3 or go G4.

    __________________

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  17. #17
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    Hey Ricks,

    What if besides loose screws, I am also a nut??

    How about: Kaptain Kaos, or maybe Grand Poobah?



    __________________

    Charlie Don't Surf!

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by unclemac:

    Is 2-3 weeks too late?

    ]
    How long does it take to knock aff a 7-11?
    I would like to do it now. god knows what mood i'll be 2 weeks down the road and if i'll even have the $50.
    get it while i got it
    (or play it by ear)

  19. #19
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    Thanx Gurus!
    After trippin' through all the posts and hearing your advice, I think as a moderate user (dare I say "hobbyist"?) with a small collection of ATA drives (no scsi) I can, for the present, make do with SIIG ATA card for now.
    Unclemac made a wonderful offer to sell his, but
    i think he needs his for a while and i'd like to do something yesterday.
    Soooo, who has a spare card layin around? (ricks??)
    And any issues with OS 9.2 and this set up? Right now, with a single drive, this thing boots in a relative "blink of an eye".
    I'll get with the program in a few-six months and am considering a modest system upgrade like a used G4 for $5-600. Which G4 should I look for in that price range that'll give me an upgrade path advantage over my rev 1 BW?

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