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Thread: Things that I've tried

  1. #1
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    OS X 10.2.5 seems to have rendered my system well, changed and not in a good way.

    Freezes that didn't occur before.

    Things I was doing anyway but may be related (or not):

    Moved my PC100 DRAM from B&W to Beige. In part because RAM I bought for Beige (from OWC) was NOT PC100 as listed, but PC133.

    Ordered more RAM, only from Crucial (PC133) this time.

    Left one RAM slot in the middle empty.

    Found that I was having trouble with one USB port on my B&W - the other port seems okay, for now.

    Planning on buying a USB/FW card "just in case."

    Ordered a new Apple Pro Keyboard (thinking it might be the "hub" in the k/b that was causing trouble).

    Ordered a better USB extension - my Mac is in another room - with Cheetahs churning away.

    Ordered a new MS Optical Intellimouse - I like it, thought it might be a mouse problem, and want one for my Beige.

    I had been using G4/500 in B&W but wanted to give the Beige a boost, so put a G3/466 (running at 450/250) in B&W. Maybe I need to put the G4 back in (AFTER I get one of those G4/1000 for my Beige that is!).

    I don't have any trouble iwth 10.2.5 on Beige (it uses the Dual Port USB card, Intellimouse).

    Freightening.

    And I was saving up for something. Now I've dropped $250 into RAM (but now have two machines maxed out while I can), some more on k/b, mouse, etc so the system is going to come out almost totally revamped in the end. And either G3/800 or something better. $75 for a good USB/FW card. Oh, and FW is no longer mounting or showing up or working.

    I also removed the ACard and system is better with just one interface (SCSI) and just one internal boot drive (system volume and emergency volume), iwth all the data on two RAID volumes on four drives.

    Could an OS kill a USB port?

    Could OWC please ship what they list rather than "PC133 is what most want, and its cheaper now than PC100" along with "most people buying the more expensive DRAM ($62/256MB) want PC100/133 and those with Beige choose the cheaper $36/256MB RAM."

    I was really thinking that the rather old G3/466 ('00 ?) was the culprit and needed to be pulled or was flakey (old PowerLogix model that has trouble beyond 256MHz on the L2 cache).

    I want my system to be back to the stability it was!

  2. #2
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    Ain't you had fun.

    ?I can sympathize since I haven't had a stable quicksilver in a month, not since the Security Update I ran via Software Update. At least my problem manifested in one direction instead of multiple directions like yours is.

    ?I think you need a vacation. Either that or sell the dog and the cats and buy that G4 you always wanted Course, Apple hasn't designed, much less manufactured the "G4 you always wanted" yet.

    ?I've been running solely on my B&W this last month. A fine machine most times. It can be disconcerting to be used to the more instantaneous response of a faster computer. I look forward to the day it carries a 1 gig processor.

    I also have to order more ram it turns out. I believe, now that in desperation I swapped out the Quicksilver's ram for a 1/2 gig of the PC133 ram in my B&W, that I actually have found the culprit for the mysterious unmounting of hard drives that has been occurring with great frequency in my QS. I ran every ram test I could with no errors ever found and yet by swapping the ram I appear to have found stability in OSX. Need to find better ram test utilities, the ones I have didn't work.

    ?I sure hope you get your problems diminished, hard to get along with a computer where half the ports don't work.

    ?Give 'er hell buddy,

    Rick

    [This message has been edited by ricks (edited 22 April 2003).]

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    If Sonnet can provide a G4/1000 now for Beige and rev 2 B&W's (but not all) then maybe a 1.2GHz someday will be powering this four-yr old down the info highway, huh? Buy another year or more, too. This is one upgrade I am dying to be able to do. I was going to settle for G3/800... but G4/1000?? gotta have it!

    Looks like it was more RAM voodoo. RAM triggers a crash (but only shows in Console) but corrupts the system gradually. B&W didn't like having an empty J21 slot (J19, J20, zero in J21, J22). Or mixed types of chips.

    Not using the one USB port helps that issue - only need it for rare print job which is probably okay - or USB card.

    I looked at "Receipts" and modification dates, decided to do the QuickTime 6.1.1 update. Its been better since. <knock on wood> If there is more trouble, I'll do CombUpdate 10.2.4 and will wait for the 10.2.5 CD to test that out on another volume.

    I don't know what was corrupted, but when the system froze while 86% into optimizing for 10.2.5 it sure threw a wrench in there. And if RAM, then system corruption, then... slow meltdown

    - G.

  4. #4
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    I'm going to guess that Sonnet has done their homework with the G4/1000 in Beige G3. My Sonnet G4/800 in the 6-slot PTP has been rock solid and fixed the issues that other G4 upgrades had, slot 4 Busmaster card issues, and interleaved RAM. They did a marvelous job with that G4 card. k

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    That makes the Sonnet just that much nicer. I notice that they backed off their $699 already and have priced it at just $599 so we know it will hit $499 eventually, I suspect (maybe when the 1.2's come out?).

    The more I look at what triggers a crash or freeze or "kern_panic" in Console, Safari is one and the recent Stuffit Expander 7.03 is the other. those are the two main culprits it seems right now.

    Ever use MSIE (5.2.2 or 5.1.6) and notice how VersionTracker is forever reporting scripting errors? I don't think IE is 'lying' but rather VT does weird stuff, and a bad site/good test.

    Now that OmniWeb is two years old and has had a lot of testers, its a pretty good browser. And Mozilla may now be the faster of 'em all.

    Anyone using Stuffit 7.03 w/o problems? Safari crash-free for someone? because RAM is the easiest to replace, went with that.

    - G.

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    Next thing to try <always one more> the 10.2.5 update CD ought to be here tomorrow.

  7. #7
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    Just today 10.2.5 froze (yes froze, as in no curser, no mouse, no clock movement) on a DP 867 that is all OEM plus 1 stick from Crucial... FileMaker developer who does the same thing with the same apps everyday, day in and day out. The only recent change is the OS update.

    Never a single hiccup, much less a freeze or panic since the day it was new on 10.2.3.

    And this after about 1 week on .5; what happened to that protected memory that would allow an app to quit without bring down the OS?

  8. #8
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    ????"what happened to that protected memory that would allow an app to quit without bring down the OS?"

    ?Is that what it's supposed to do........hmmmm.

  9. #9
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    ....Always been a sucker for slick marketing. Got me again!

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    One thing I've been doing that I didn't use to, is running Cocktail (2.0 is a total rewrite).

    I'm also wondering about web sites that try to download bots to help track web traffic and where you visit - even if it doesn't run, they do try. Anyone seen any 'spyware' attempts?

    Protected memory: doesn't that mean the memory throws up its hands at the slightest scare? Where's the error correcting parity checking good stuff, huh?

    if I was a spy, I'd sit and wait a week so no one would suspect where I came from...

    I think we need 10.2.6 after all this. A full installer rather than a patched update process.

  11. #11
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    Now even with new USB card, Apple Pro k/b, MS Intellimouse Optical, USB ext. cable, all RAM is or should be identical (PC133 Crucial), had a freeze or two.

    Swapped the G4/500 in my Beige back into the B&W (where it use to be), and put the G3/466 back in the Beige, now everyone seems happy.

    I can open lots of apps, open windows as fast as I can in multiple browsers, really try to tax or max things out.

    I had set the G3/466 to 450, my next step would have been to go one step down (PL uses a dial on this G3). It is running at 433 MHz, 217 MHz for L2 (the L2 was never good or rated for 250MHz though I use to run it at 499 Mhz and 2:1 under OS 9 yrs ago and for awhile in OS X until I bought the G4/500.

    I had speculated it was the cpu and/or cache that was at fault. Memory, only the fast L2 and not the system memory. Can't see the need for G3/800 or G4 1GHz in either system if everything is working properly.

    it works! and I'm not tempting fate and gonna try 10.2.5 again.

    - G.

  12. #12
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    Wow. What a ride. Glad to hear you are back up and at 'em.

    What are your thoughts about Cocktail 2.0?

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    I'm actually thinking that Rick's ride might in fact be attributable to L2/L3 cache!

  14. #14
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    Gregory,

    ?I took the Quicksilver back down to basic configuration, not quite factory, 1 gig of ram and 2 Barracudas on the ATA66 bus. No externals no PCI devices.

    ?I did that last night so I could send it to a shop. Then I started testing to see if I could get it to fail state again.......................... I am typing on it now and it ran all night and for the first time wasn't frozen in the morning.

    ?I hate problems that come and go.

    R

    ?Oh, thanks for the disk usage monitor command!

  15. #15
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    I got this from a friend of mine who had a power supply failure in his QS Dual 800. Actually, the only way he found about the failing ps was because he hooked up a 17" Apple Studio Display to the ADC and then his rig would just shut down unexpectantly or fail to boot. It had been running fine with a VGA monitor.Apparently any ADC-connected display gets its power ultimately from the ps, whereas a VGA monitor doesn't...

    Anyway, in the process of getting to the bottom of the problem, an Apple tech gave him this hardware troubleshooting technique:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Apple Support gave me an interesting suggestion and new debug technique I had not been aware of, and I figured I'd pass it on.

    I had already booted from the Apple Hardware Test CD and run all the tests in quick and extended modes. No problem found.

    The tech suggested to run the extended tests, hit CTRL-L, and you'll see "Loop Mode On" in the lower panel. Run the extended test overnight in this loop-mode to see if it finds a failure and reports a failure code.

    It might catch a problem which occurs only after the machine has been running for a certain amount of time, or related to heat. The Tech said this is one of the first things they'd do anyway at the shop.

    She also said that it runs out of Open Firmware of the CD and doesn't involve really anything else, so this is an excellent diagnostic for determining and pinpointing failures. She said it might come up with a code (which is usually somewhat meaningful) and it might point to a specific component, or the video card. If there's a problem with the motherboard, it should show up this way.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

  16. #16
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    Thanks boots,

    ?So here I am with a perfectly running QS. Except that every time I add another host cad in for the other drives I get plastered. Your idea might be a way to see what is crashing once I get to the point I feel like causing said crash.

    ?I never have had to wait very long once the problems start to manifest. So at least I get he instant gratification of having a number to define the failure. (Hah, at least I have a name for what's wrong with me. Paranoia )

    ?Great idea, especially since I have been fighting this for almost a month. My appreciation goes your way boots. (Sorry about including what passes for my sense of humor )

    Rick

  17. #17
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    Believe me, you've got a great sense of humor- especially considering what you've been dealing with with that QS. I only hope my rig doesn't start developing some base line hardware glitch- I'm hearing too many of these stories about the Quicksilvers recently. I'm mean really- the guy shouldn't be having to put in a new power supply after just 2 years...Ah well, I suppose a sobering reminder that these are after all just machines...

  18. #18
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    Thanks for the tip boots! I have a naughty imac, and this may help to narrow down the cause.

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