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Thread: My new Mac won't install Jag. HELP!

  1. #1
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    I purchased Jag for my 466mhg G4 and installed it just fine. It would crash over and over, prompting me to restart though. I then realized that my G4 had a SCSI card in it I didn't use. So, once I took it out, it installed fine.

    So, since then, I've sold that machine and purchased a used 933 QS. It came with an airport card, and to my knowledge, no SCSI card or weird vid card (GeForce MX 64mb). Everything factory including 512mb of Kingston ram (Apple). I installed a replacement HDD. A Western Digital WD800 w/ the 8mb cache. I partitioned the HDD into 2 partitions I then tried to install Jag and couldn't. I would get prompted to restart my machine during the install. A white box would pop up at any given point of the install telling me this, and in several different languages. So, I took the airport card out and tried again. Same thing.

    So, I decided to go ahead and install OS9.2.2 on one partition and 10.1.2 on the other. Both installed great and the Mac purr's like a kitten. So then I try installing Jag again, this time reading the "Read Me" over again. This time I get the "restart" message instantly. Rebooted, this time I got while reading the read me. Rebooted, got half way thru the install, REBOOT.

    I don't understand this. Everything on this machine is factory. The machine is practically brand new (even though it's used...the guy never used it).

    I triple checked my CD's and they don't have a scratch on them. I even had my buddy bring his Jag CD's over just in case... and the same thing happens. It's simply NOT my CD's.

    Does anyone have a single clue as to what I should do? The machine isn't covered by Apple Care unfortunately, and I don't live too close to an Apple Store.

    I really want to get Jag installed and my new baby up and running the right way. Please help!

    J

  2. #2
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    J,

    ?You are going to have to suspect everything. Your 933 is as built for Jag as Jag was built for the 933.

    ?RAM first. If you can run OS9 you can do an extended RAM test. YOu can use XLR8s Power Control and run it for hours. Run Power Frax in the background to put the cpu under load. Most of the reading will be faulty like what ram and what cpu speed since most of those weren't even invented when Power Control was written but the ram test works great.

    ?You can get those from the macgurus ftp site. Or if you want directly from my iDisk. XLR8 Utilities.sit

    ?Do an Open Firmware reset. Hold the Command+Option+O+F keys. At the '>' prompt type:

    >reset-nvram
    Return
    >set-defaults
    Return
    >reset-all
    Return
    and your computer will resume startup.

    ?Recheck your hard drive jumper settings. I know, you just did. Check it again. If the WD is the only drive make sure it is Master no Slave. If the drive is set as slave remove the Master and reinstall the WD as Master no Slave and see if that solves it.

    ?There's got to be more ideas but that's my shot for now.

    Rick

  3. #3
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    Oh, and make sure you set Energy Saver settings to 'Never' when runing Power Control or it'll puke when sleep comes.

    R

  4. #4
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    Hi j -

    Just to be clear, are you attempting to upgrade from 10.1.2 to 10.2 or a fresh install of 10.2? Do you have upgrade CDs or Full 10.2 CDs? When you partitioned, did you use Disc Ultity while booted to 10.2?

    Ricks is right on regarding the Slave issue; your drive may have come set to "Cable Select"...it has to be Master for OS X install and booting.

    [This message has been edited by newbie (edited 14 March 2003).]

  5. #5
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    Ok guys... I've switched out the ram w/ 5 different sticks... and it still won't work. I've discovered that what I'm seeing is a kernal panic. Mem is usually the problem. I didn't run the mem test, because I have so much of it lying around. Surely 5 different sticks of ram would be bad?

    I've unhooked everything except the keyboard/mouse, vid card, and power. This still does not work.

    My firmware version is 4.33f2... and as far as I can tell.. that is the most current one.

    I just did the open firmware reset, and almost fainted because I got this weird Darwin text stuff that popped up all over my screen after reboot. I'm sorta new to Mac's... and can only assume that was "bad". I rebooted again and it worked thank god.

    Also.. the ONLY drive I have right now is the WD800. There are no jumpers on it, because having none is the setting for a "single" drive.

    Anyone??

    Jason

  6. #6
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    ?Just to make sure, the Open Firmware reset goes:

    ?Hold the Command+Option+O+F keys. This puts you in a command line interface where at the end of any text you will get a ">" prompt. At that prompt you type in the reset-nvram, set-defaults and reset-all commands with returns like I printed below.

    ?Each time you give a command that is executable you will get an OK and another prompt >.

    ?That series will reset your motherboard. When you enter reset-all and press return the computer will resume normal multiuser restart.

    ?One more step. While shutdown press the PMU reset button next to the battery on the motherboard. Only press it once until after a restart has been accomplished. Wait 20 seconds after pressing it to reboot.

    ?Did you get a hardware test CD? That may be able to show what is happening.

    Rick

  7. #7
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    I'm positive I did the Open Firmware test right. I'll run the apple HW test then. I don't know what causes a Kernal Panic, but it's even crashed on me while in Disk Utility. It's crashed viewing the Read Me, and it's crashed during Select Destination. Could it be that the disc is bad? Would that cause it?

    Jason

  8. #8
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    Could you re-clarify/re-word this for me?

    > One more step. While shutdown press the PMU reset button next to the battery > on the motherboard. Only press it once until after a restart has been
    > accomplished. Wait 20 seconds after pressing it to reboot.

    Thanks.

    Jason

  9. #9
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    My G4-800DP came from Apple with a WD800BB 80GB 2MB cache as the only drive. It was not jumpered Single (Neutral Position). It was jumpered across pins 5 and 6 which WD calls Dual (Master). Reading over the WD docs for the drive, I don't see why your jumper settings wouldn't work but that is not the way Apple did it in my box. Just be sure that you are using the correct connector on your IDE cable for Master. k

  10. #10
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    I'll try it. But logic makes me question:

    A. Why I've been able to install my other OS's if it's the HDD jumper.
    B. Why do I get kernal panics at different stages? Why have I gotten them viewing the read me, in Disc Utility, in Select Desintation, and on install?

    Could the disc be bad?

    Jason

  11. #11
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    Digging through this thread, if you haven't already, would you do me a favor and run DIMM First Aid, and then post the results? Then we can begin to rule out memory.

    Used machine that is giving trouble is not good. JAG is very particular about RAM, more so than OS 9.2 ever was. And SCSI. And the master/slave issue of jumpers and even which position on the IDE cable the drive is when using 'CS' mode.

    It could just be the IDE cable. have you partitioned the drive with Disk (Disc is European/French spelling?) Utility? Or, use Drive Setup and then give the full drive time to Test every block and sector. I would not do a "zero-all" though, it can't be stopped once begun.

    Anything from the B&W on, that are NewWorld, should run Jag just fine. maybe the SuperDrive isn't cabled correctly?

  12. #12
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    DIMM First Aid? Where is that located? I ran Power Frax, and can't even begin to understand it. I just select selections over and over, zooming in each time. I guess it's working. But I don't know. What would happen if it wasn't?

    jason

  13. #13
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    I found it, and will run it now.

    Jason

  14. #14
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    Here are my results from all three 512mb sticks that I have.
    the first one is the Kingston Apple mem.
    the second is some korean crap that I'd like to get rid of.
    and the third is CompUSA ram.

    Model: PowerMac3,5
    PowerMac G4 (QuickSilver)
    DIMM0/J21
    DIMM configured for 512MB
    8008040D0A02400001755400820800010F04060101000EA060 0000140F142D40
    15081508000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000001253
    7F98000000000000464B565231333378363443332F353132FF FFFFFFFF01272B
    049900FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFF64F5
    7.5ns PC133-333
    DIMM checks out OK

    DIMM1/J22
    DIMM configured for 512MB
    8008040D0A02400001755400820800018F04040101000E0000 0000140F142D40
    15081508000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000012D1
    ADFFFFFFFFFFFFFF01373256363436333654382D4820202020 2020414106021A
    01214500000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000064FD
    7.5ns PC133-333
    Note: CL2 not supported
    DIMM checks out OK

    DIMM2/J23
    DIMM configured for 512MB
    8008040D0A02400001755400820800018F04060101000EA060 0000140F142C40
    15081508000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000002C2
    7FBA0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000020200
    0000000000000000504E5920546563686E6F6C6F676965732C 20496E632E64F4
    7.5ns PC133-333
    SPD data revision is old or incorrect
    DIMM checks out OK

    All your DIMMs checked out OK

  15. #15
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    I see that all of the RAM shows some different spec or other. CAS 3-3-3 is not what most people want or use, rather, CAS 2 (2-2-2). Okay, this actually looks suspicious:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    7.5ns PC133-333
    DIMM checks out OK

    DIMM1/J22
    7.5ns PC133-333
    Note: CL2 not supported

    DIMM2/J23
    7.5ns PC133-333
    SPD data revision is old or incorrect <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I would want to try with the best PC133 that OWC or Crucial sells, which has now gone up to about $60 for 256MB (was $35-50 this year) and 512 is now selling for $75-104. Here are some choices:

    Crucial PC133 512MB SDRAM $90, and OWC 512MB CAS2 $88 (they have some cheaper RAM for $78, but why bother, especially if you plan to upgrade later, not worth the $10 savings I suspect).

    That RAM may work, or some vendors may sell it for the G4/AGP series, but I'm not sure about it. Thanks for the DIMM report, it is a mixed bag of chips.

    [This message has been edited by Gregory (edited 15 March 2003).]

  16. #16
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    Keep in mind... that the third stick was pulled from my OLD Mac... which I installed Jag on just fine. and it appears even more suspect then the first one listed, which is the Kingston mem.

    The burning question to me still is... would I get a kernal panic if the disc was bad? Also.. why am I getting a kernal panic when viewing the read me? Or sometimes when i put the disc and the very first install screen come up. Or when I select the destination disc? or half way thru the install? It's like something is wacky w/ the disc. Because when viewing the read me... I'm not even INSTALLING anything. So how could "Jag" have a problem with that?

    I'm now currently zeroing my HDD drive and doing away the partitions just for fun. At this point, I have nothing to lose. I have to for sure verify that it's not the HDD. Later this week, I'm gonna have access to a Jaq "Upgrade" CD and I'm gonna try THAT. The Jag cd that I purchased isn't an "upgrade" disc. It's a full install.

    Thanks!

    J

  17. #17
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    Hey... should I be alarmed that I HAVE a modem, yet Apple HW Test said it didn't detect one? That surely has nothing to do w/ this though.

    Jason

  18. #18
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    ?I don't think a bad disk would cause a KP at different places all the time, this sounds like a hardware problem. I'd pull all your ram except the single best 512, leave the others out. You have probably done that each time already with different modules installed.

    ?Power Frax is ONLY a cpu load utility that should just be left on while you run Power Control in the foreground doing the extended ram test. You should see zero errors.

    ?Replace the battery or check it with a volt meter. It should read 3.3 to 3.7 volts. A dead battery can cause some very weird problems.

    It is possible that your drive is not good. You are correct that no jumpers is Master. If you have another drive to try you should as a diagnoses method. I've even placed a drive in another Mac to install the OS and moved the drive OS and all over to the bad Mac as a test method.

    ?YOur Mac may also have a cpu problem. At least cpus are getting less expensive, I am not sure what you can do to test the cpu except take it to a shop.

    ?YOu can download the G4 service manual from my iDisk if you want to read any other test routines. I am uploading it right now, I have a very slow connection and it will take a while with that 10MB file before it is available (couple of hours?). G4 Service Manual pdf

    Rick

  19. #19
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    Thanks Rick.

    I wonder how much new CPU would cost? How about a new Mobo? I've not yet really even USED this Mac, and I'm now maybe looking at a new CPU or Mobo? I can't believe it.

    I have another HD, but it's only a 30gig and it came w/ my Gateway.
    I could try it though. I can't remember what kind it is though.

    Jason

  20. #20
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    Well, that upload didn't work somehow... But, I have a archive version on the iDisk I forgot about so you can download it and open with expander.

    G4 Manual.sit

    Rick

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