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Thread: Strange video problem after installing new RAM

  1. #21
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    That's okay, Rick! I just have one of the first G3s that came out so mine is a little bit different. I just want to get my G3 back the way it was. I still have that strange pause when typing, and I've found that none of my printers are working (I see the files there, but the G3 can't see the printers connected to it and seems to not see the printer files). It has been so long since I've installed any of the OS software that I can't remember how the heck to start. I finally managed to find an install app for Laserwriter 8, but it keeps complaining that I have Simpletext on my hard drive that it can't delete, but it fails to give me the path (or it's seeing a file that doesn't exist). I've zapped and reset and rebuilt so much that everything's becoming screwy. Something is definitely wrong still so it looks like I'm in for a full night of more zapping, resetting, rebuilding and reinstalling. Oh, the joy of computing!

    And when I get all of that done, it will be time to pick out my new G4. That will be a nice reward at the end of the journey.



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  2. #22
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    Success! I have both printers up and running!

    Now if I can only figure out what's causing this pausing when I type, I'll have it made. Any ideas? I bet it's a setting that I need to reset after zapping/resetting/rebuilding everything. What Control Panels affect keystrokes?



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  3. #23
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    I hate it when that happens.........

    Hi Vicki, well......Rick knows more than I, but I'll throw in my 2 since it's low cost. Or at least we hope it is.

    For whatever reason, it sounds like your machine is having some trouble in video "chewing gum and walking at the same time".

    A question I would like to know is this: When OS 8.1 came out, did sticks Of RAM in 256MB density even exist yet?

    Will your software/addons run under OS 8.6? If they will, it might be worth it to upgrade to 8.6. There were a number of things which worked better under 8.6 over 8.1. Kaye can probably speak to that.

    Does your system have enough MOBO VRAM to run your monitor?

    If so, the first thing to do would be to pull your Radius card and see if there is a conflict.

    The fact that the problem goes away when you open some programs would seem to indicate a possible OS 8.1 conflict. It just might be that there is some display enhancement routines in Photoshop that supercede a conflict with the OS.

    Stabs in the dark, but my vote is a OS "feature" (bug) flushed out by just the right conflicting errors. (yes, that is redundant) OS and/or PCI video conflict.

    ......like I said, 2

    Warm regards,

    8's

  4. #24
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    sounds like a background app or something is stealing clock cycles.....i would boot with extensions off, and see if the behavior persists. If it does, then we need to be looking elsewhere.

    i have a suspicion that some extension, something that doesn't belong....heck, it could even be a corrupted font, right? Something simple is probably doing it.

    the iron test is to boot off a system CD. If the behavior persists, then you are very likely looking at a hardware problem. If your Mac is normal, then you know it has to be some system resource at fault.

  5. #25
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    There is a sub-menu for the keyboard in Control Panels. I think it's mostly for re-peat rate and repeat latency, but you might play with it.

    BTW, just curious, but while all that other junk was going on, did you check to make sure Virtual Memory was turned "off"?

    One of the OS routines Photoshop may modify is memory caching.

    I think lasvegas may be able to shed some light on that issue.

    Even if you've decided to move on, it would be cool to find the answer........sooner or later we'll hear about it again.

    8's


    Batsignal invoked to lasvegas!

  6. #26
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    Hey! It's the boss man!!

    How do Magician? How's things?


  7. #27
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    Crazy - See below as to why I won't upgrade my OS, but you may be right in that being the cause of the problems with installing the RAM. You guys can test your hearts out, but you never can test for every possible hardware/software configuration out there. I'm a dinasour in today's market with my OS which gives me fits from time to time.

    Magician - You got it! The pauses are caused by an extension. The pausing goes away when extensions are turned off, and returns when they are turned back on. Now I just need to figure out WHICH extension has become corrupted. I have Conflict Catcher so I should be able to pin it down. Funny, I've had Conflict Catcher for YEARS, and this will be the FIRST time I'll ever actually use it.

    Crazy (again) - I think I answered most of your questions within this thread. I know I talk/type a lot. But if you are interested, try to muddle through my ramblings below.

    You guys know volumns more than me, but I suspect the conflict with the RAM was either caused by my early version G3 or the old OS I'm running. I'd love to help figure out what the real cause is, but not when my computer starts making VERY LOUD popping noises! It sounded like a very large electrical arc!! Talk about a scary sound from a computer! Yikes! I'm not fooling with it anymore. I'm lucky to still have all my data intact, and I intend to keep it that way. I also have to consider that the problems I had with the RAM may have been due to something simple like dust that got caught in one of the chips or cards while I was installing the RAM. I'm just not going to try to find out. Not when I don't have a full backup of my data. I received my warning (TWO warnings!), and that's enough for me. Waaaaay enough for me! To say those pops scared the geeevies out of me is putting it mildly.



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  8. #28
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    Vicki, forgive me if I missed something, but please read on......

    For your Mac, memory should come from this page:
    http://www.macgurus.com/shoppingcart...eigesdram.html

    Did you buy PC 100 from that page or PC133 from another page?

    Check it out and let us know.... remember, you can return the stuff you bought, no problem.

    Hearing crackling noises is clearly not swell.

    Your posts are clear and top notch, and we sure appreciate your business too, but the most important thing of all is that you get satisfaction from your purchases and good support too.

    Happy customer. That's top priority for us here.

    Let me get Magician over here to clarify. I could just be having one of my weekly hallucinations.

    BTW, I don't think it's that you write a lot, I think you provide great detail for the purpose of troubleshooting!



    8's



    [This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 11 April 2002).]

  9. #29
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    Crazy, I bought PC133s after receiving a suggestion to get PC133s in this thread. I also called the gurus by phone to ask specifically about PC133s working in my G3 before making my purchase. I was told they should work fine. Not that I wish to challenge anyone. Even when speaking of something as specific as G3 motherboards, there are always variables involved that may affect whether specific hardware is compatible which I understand.

    Besides, we don't know if the memory was truly incompatible with my G3 or if there was another problem going on. Let's face it, it is NEVER normal to hear loud popping noises from a computer - incompatible RAM or not! Something was definitely going on inside my G3, but I wasn't about to tempt fait to find out what it was while I didn't have a full backup of my data.

    BTW, the pops were nowhere near a "crackle". They were VERY LOUD POPs! It reminded me of a firecracker. I wish I knew what caused it as it was the worst noise I have ever heard come out of a computer, and I can't guarantee it won't happen again even though I've changed back to my old RAM. I'm just amazed that I didn't receive any damage as a result. I must have a guardian angel sitting on my shoulder to protect my data through two of those pops! You'd have to have heard it to understand what I mean. Those pops were L=O=U=D!! I fully expected to have had blackened, melted cards from that noise! Darnedest thing I've ever heard from a computer!

    Thanks for the kind words regarding the details in my posts. Believe it or not, in a life long ago (before motherhood), I was a programmer and also handled technical support, technical documentation, and wrote software support docs at IBM (internal IBM support/software, not hardware). I used my employee discount to buy Macs. I know what it's like to be on your end so I try to be as thorough as possible in order to give you guys a chance to know what the heck is happening on my end.

    And having said that - an update: Excellent news! I found the problem causing the pausing keystrokes. When I pulled out the new RAM, I didn't reconnected my modem (I'm on cable now), and had forgotten that I had fax software loaded. The fax software kept looking for the modem; thus, the "cycling" I was experiencing. Also, the problems with the printers were a lose cable in my network from moving my G3 back and forth so many times. Neither of those problems were related to the video problems I had when I installed the RAM since the modem was connected and the printers were printing when the 256 DIMMS were installed. My G3 appears to be operating normally once again. Yipee!

    Therefore, the conclusion is that there were no other problems with my system on my G3. I installed the new RAM and that alone caused the video trouble I had. The RAM itself may not have been to blame as something simple like dust may have gotten into the connections during the installation causing the problems I had. It also could have been a problem with running OS8.1 with the RAM. All I can offer is that my G3 ran fine before the installation and ran fine after the RAM was removed (barring a few loose wires which occured only when I removed the new RAM).

    I want to thank you all for being so helpful while I was dealing with this problem! You guys are simply the greatest! I don't know what I would have done without you! While I'll be returning this RAM, I will probably find something I need when I get my new G4. Who knows, I'll probably be wanting extra RAM on the new G4, and I already know where I'll go to make my purchase. I'll be a genuine, card carrying, paid up Guru customer one way or another! You guys have earned it.



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    [This message has been edited by vickishome (edited 11 April 2002).]

  10. #30
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    Well! It's been awhile since I've been around. Sorry about that. I've had family visiting, one after another, sometimes over lapping amd for them, I'm the best (read, cheapest) hotel in town! Also, business has picked up so much, I hardly have any free-time.

    As to your problem Vicki, I agree that it is the memory. It isn't bad, it's just OS 8 tend to do funky things with so much to play with! I would make sure that Virtual memory is turned OFF and try reducing Disk Cache to around 4096K (That's 4MB in computer-speak) After a couple of months of using the memory, you can turn off the power-on test by opening the Memory control panel while holding Command and Option.

    The pauses may be caused by FileSharing being on and trying to access a port that isn't being used. Check your AppleTalk control panel and set it to the appropriate port or Ethernet (if you have cable/dsl) or Remote Only if you don't do Filesharing. Do this even if you don't use Appletalk and leave it disabled. It will turn back on any time you Zap the PRAM or hit the CUDA switch.

    The last resort is to do an Open-Firmware reset. While it's a bit tricky to get to on some Macs (like yours), it is possible and perfectly safe. Well... Safer than opening the computer and playing with the cards anyway.

    To get to Open Firmware, you first have to download Boot Variables. Then go into Apple System Profiler and determine the Computer's name for your video card. In your case, it's most likely "IMS,tt3d" for the UltimateRes card. Now with this information, open Boot Variables, check All Variables and enter the appropriate info in the appropriate places:

    input-device: kbd
    output-device: /pci/IMS,tt3d (If that's what Profiler reported.)

    Now, click Write (do not click Write&Boot as this doesn't close the drives properly!) and then restart holding Command-Option-O-F right after the chime. This should do one of two things. It should bring up Open Firmware if the settings were correct, or cause an apparent freeze with no video if they weren't. Don panic if it's the later. Just press the Power switch to shut down and restart normally.

    Now that you're at the Open Firmware window, you can do the steps that ricks correctly described. If you ever find yourself there in the future (it will remember your settings until you press the CUDA switch the next time) just type bye to get it to boot normally.

    I hope this helps to resolve your problems. I know how they can get very frustrating. I have a client's machine that I still can't get Virtual PC to not freeze the whole system whenever it's run.

    lasvegas

  11. #31
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    Hello to Las Vegas! Thanks for your sage wisdom man....

    Vicki, thanks for your response. You're more on top of this than I am.....

    .....I know little, or less, about SDRAM, other than it's as cheap as I wish FPM DIMMs for my machine were.

    So, my apologies to anyone who's toes I may have stepped on. I was wearing my sandals, not my boots. I swear!

    regards to all,

    c8

  12. #32
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    LasVegas, you're wonderful to offer such great advice! But I'm going to get a new Mac. This poor G3 has paid its dues and it's time to put it into retirment (meaning the kids will get it). I have simply outgrown this G3 is too many ways. I had hoped adding more RAM would buy me some more time before getting a new Mac, but naaaaaaa! I'm so boxed in between an old OS, old hardware and old software that it makes no sense to go to this much fuss to add RAM to this G3. It's finally time to get a new Mac.

    BTW, File Sharing is/was turned off so that wasn't causing the problem of my system pausing when typing. Even though I zapped my PRAM, I reloaded it from a saved copy using TechTool which turned File Sharing back off each time. Magician's suggestion about extensions narrowed it down for me. Running Conflict Catcher pointed to the TelePort extension which immediately told me that the problem was caused by having the modem disconnected while the fax software was still running. When I reconnected my modem, the pausing went away.

    Crazy - no toes stepped on over here! And what are you doing with sandals on anyway? Dontcha know that computing is much more enjoyable barefoot?!

    Thanks again, gurus!

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  13. #33
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    Oh, it's YOU Vicki!

    I remember you now, after seeing your web site.

    How have you been? Nice to see you around here again.

    I hope you and yours are doing great!



    c8

  14. #34
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    Oh, it's YOU Vicki!

    Uh oh! I'm in trouble now! I've been found out!

    Yup, it's me. I've been doing great! Would be doing even better if my hubby hadn't been laid off from Enron. Know anyone who's looking for a SAP HR Functional Consultant? I just might happen to know one that's available.

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  15. #35
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    Now you guys wanna laugh? I think I've picked out the new G4 I want, and I'm going to max out the RAM on it from the get-go. The G4 has three RAM slots in which I can place 512MB DIMMS. It turns out that buying two 512 DIMMS from you guys will cost me about the same as I paid for the three 256MB DIMMS I'm returning. So I'm really not returning anything - think of it as an exchange! This will work out great!

    I've posted a thread asking a few questions about moving my stuff from my G3 to the G4, and if any of you have a free moment, I'd appreciate your suggestions. Here's the thread. Thanks as always!





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  16. #36
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    I love this post. It has all the drama of a good John Wayne movie, maybe Red River? I suppose that Wayne woulda whooped me for recommending that you buy that ram though.

    Still can't believe that it didn't work. (I guess I'm a slow learner) But, it got you to look at a new G4 and with all the stuff you do on a computer you will be thrilled! I jumped from a 8600 to a 867 Quicksilver, whata difference.

    I'll post on your other thread when I get my shattered confidence back. Might find a way to accomplish your goals.

    Have a wonderful day.

    Rick

  17. #37
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    Popping Noises

    Exploding is the favored method of suicide for capacitors. Most capacitors are just sitting between the voltage supply and ground lines to help filter the voltage supply (keep it steady at a constant value). When the capacitors blow, as long as they blow electrically open (don't produce a short) you loose some power filtering capacity, but the machine usually still works.

    So, I would guess that your two loud pops were capacitors blowing. They do that with age sometimes. On the IIci, they just quietly leaked corrosive goo onto the motherboard and ate through the traces...

    I'm not that familiar with the Beige G3, but it's possible that it has caps on the bottom of the board. An exploded capacitor should be fairly obvious, though they tend to be tiny components only ~1/8" across or so.

  18. #38
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    Exploding capacitors?! I have no idea what an exploding capacitor might sound like, but the description fits. It sounded like something exploded (as I said, like a firecracker). Thank goodness they didn't do any damage that woudl have caused me to lose my data. Hardware can be replaced a million times, but not data.

    So how does this affect my G3? While I've decided to get a new G4, I had hoped to continue using the G3 for many more years. Should I get the capacitors replaced? Will this cause harm to any of the other components inside the G3? I typically run the G3 24/7 and only shut down for rare events. Will this be okay in the future?

    I ran a few google searches on exploding capacitors in computers, and most of the hits I found talked about overclocking and heat. I honestly think this narrows things down to the conclusion that the RAM was not campatible with my G3. I seriously doubt this has anything to do with running OS 8.1. I don't know exactly what was going on inside my G3 with that RAM in it, but I know it was not good. Too many strange things occured during the short time I had the DIMMS installed, and I don't think it was just coincidence. From now on, I will stick to my usually very conservative rules of only installing parts that were specifically designed for my computers. No more trying to increase the limits for me!

    Rick: Taking white glove off hand. Grasping it firmly. Whop! Whop! Whop! Whop! Consider yourself punished for being such a bad, bad boy recommending that RAM to me.



    No need to lose confidence. As I said before, it is not possible to test each and every system in the world. I'm not worried about it. Actually, it's turned out to be a good thing because it brought me to take a look at the G4s on the market, and I am thrilled with what I found! This was meant to be.



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  19. #39
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    If you have blown capacitors, they would be relatively easy to spot on the motherboard. Just look for those little black or blue cans. If you see any exploded open or tilted far to the side, you've likely found the culprit. Since you didn't mention the presence of white smoke, or a pungent odor, I doubt it was the larger capacitors in the power supply. The capacitors should be replaced since their function is filtering of noise between components. If you know someone that's competent with a soldering iron, they should be able to replace them with like capacitors from a local electronics store or DigiKey.

  20. #40
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    Thanks, LasVegas. I discussed this with my father who said I should not be running this computer until I clearly know what damage has been done. He says I am running a risk of further damage, including losing my data. I cannot afford to lose my data, and if there is a risk - no matter how small - I must shut down.

    Therefore, I will be shutting down now. I will be back online when I get my new G4. Talk to you guys soon.


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