Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: 7300/200 w/ Miles2 U2W

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Posts
    9

    Default

    I have a 7300/200 with a Miles2 U2W card I bought a year ago (from MacGurus). I have two IBM 9.1GB U2W LVD drives attached to it (both internal) and I'm using SoftRaid 2.2.2 to mirror them. (Actually, one of the drives is an Ultra160, but it's operating at U2W because that's all the card supports.)

    (I have a narrow SCSI drive as the startup volume. It and the CD-ROM drive are in an external enclosure attached to the built-in external SCSI bus.)

    I'm running MacOS 9.2.1.

    I've been having occasional hangs and weird I/O errors. Sometimes the system won't boot (just a grey screen). This is a server that runs 24/7, so roboots are only after problems. After a hang I roboot with extensions off, run SoftRaid and rebuild the mirror, then run Disk First Aid (no problems usually), then reboot normally.

    Today it hung, and after rebuilding the mirror and running DFA, it wouldn't boot. I discovered that if I unplugged the Miles2 card the system boots. If I reinstall the card and unplug the top drive, the system also boots. So I booted with the top drive unplugged, and it seemed to come up OK, but after running for a few minutes it hung (right in the middle of a lot of disk activity). This happened three times. After the third time, the remaining LVD drive was badly corrupted.

    Apple's Drive Setup won't scan the drives for bad sectors. It won't talk to the drives at all, saying "unsupported." I assume this is because they are running the SoftRaid drivers and/or because they are set up as a mirror?

    Does this sound like a problem with the Miles2? Or just the drive that won't boot? Or with the other drive as well? Or maybe with the Initio drivers or SoftRaid?

    Suggestions?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Mobius Strip
    Posts
    13,045

    Default

    Randy,

    DFA is minimal. I would be using Disk Warrior as a minimum, and Norton 6.03 after that. But in this case, and I assume you have a backup, I'd low level the drives. Norton can test the media but not map out bad blocks. Sounds like you may just need new drives.

    In order to use Drive Setup, you'd need to remove the SoftRAID driver. This can be difficult and easiest to accomplish using ATTO ExpressPro Tools first, then Drive Setup. However, the Test in DS is not as complete and Apple recommends that, if you have or suspect bad blocks, to low level (SCSI) or Zero (IDE). http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=24764

    The 7300 supports up to 9.1 so you've forced a 9.2.1 install? or extracted some of the components? Outside OpenTransport and OpenGL, ATI, not a lot of improvements for the 7300 (instructions on how to over on www.xlr8yourmac.com).

    Considering the advances in SCSI, one of the new 10K Cheetahs will saturate the Miles2 and deliver higher performance, low cost, quiet, and run cooler.

    Your strategy on using external drive for the OS, is on the slow 5MB/s bus while the internal is FastSCSI (10MB/s). Hanging a drive externally off the Miles2 might be one option to look at, or put a backup drive there? Just ideas throwing out...

    Heat, battery, age and wear...?

    Gregory

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Gregory,

    Thanks for the reply. I was able to do a low-level format/zero all data with Drive Setup by unplugging the drive's power, then booting (to the CD), then plugging in the drives. But I now suspect the cable, because I tried swapping the drives (should have done that first) and the boot problem is positional, not drive-dependent.

    Also, I was wrong about the OS (I'm not in front of the system) -- it's 9.1, the latest that installs on a 7300. I ran out and got a cable today, and will try it when I get home. I wanted to get a brand-new one, but the local Mac store only had pulls (Foxconn from Apple G3s, just like the one I'm currently using).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Posts
    9

    Default

    I tried the new cable, and there is no difference. The system boots with either drive in any location, but not with both drives.

    I used the trick of unplugging both drives from power (but still plugged into the cable), booted, then used Drive Setup to initialize them (and write Apple drivers). Now the system boots, but I don't have a mirror.

    At this point I'm stumped. It least I can run with one of the drives, but it would be nice to have the protection of mirroring

    --Randy.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    7,056

    Default

    What are the full model numbers of those two IBM drives? k

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Posts
    9

    Default

    One is an Ultrastar 36LZX model DDYS-T09170 9.1GB Ultra160 LVD.
    The other is an Ultrastar 9ES model DNES-309170 9.1GB U2W LVD (this one is also marked as an EOM).

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Grangeville, ID USA
    Posts
    9,119

    Default

    Randy,

    The first thing that comes to mind is termination and SCSI ID conflicts. Are you sure you have the two drives setup with different ID's?

    Since your running two LVD drives do you have a terminator installed on the end of the cable?

    No drive should have term power jumpers installed. The Miles2 supplies termination power so the drives do not have to.

    I would also recommend that you install the Miles2 in the Bus Master PCI slot. Reset the CUDA if you move the card. Bus Master should be labeled as slot A1 I think on the 7300. You can check that also via Apple System Profiler.

    Rick

    [This message has been edited by ricks (edited 11 April 2002).]

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Posts
    9

    Default

    One drive is ID 0 and the other is 1. Both were working when I first got the card, and had been working as a mirror until recently. There is a built-in terminator on the end of the Foxconn cable. I have the system up now with both drives installed, but using Apple drivers (initialized via Drive Setup).

    The card is in slot A1. I can't recall for sure if I reset the CUDA when I installed the card, but I doubt it. Where in ASP does it say which is the Bus Master slot?

    (Only other card is a 100baseT Ethernet).

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Grangeville, ID USA
    Posts
    9,119

    Default

    Sounds like you have all that covered. ASP only will say that the card is in A1 without having to open the case up, doesn't say anything about bus mastering, but we know that A1 is the bus master.

    The time to hit the CUDA would be if and when you move a card. This will reset the NVRAM and force the boot to reappraise all the installed hardware, important if you've made a change.

    I wish I had an answer for your mirrorlessness.I have to agree with Gregory on Disk Warrior, it will fix/find more problems than most utilities. I have found it the most amazing and useful disk utility. I own a whole bunch of them too, I seldom use any except Disk Warrior anymore.

    Now's the time to test the drives thoroughly to see if one is bad. It occurs to me that a firmware upgrade on the Miles2 might resolve the issue also. What version are you running (another ASP call)?

    The other thing I would worry about is running LVD drives on possible non-LVD cables and/or a bad terminator. Those two items can cause more scsi voodoo than all the rest combined. That's almost the first thing to look at.

    I kinda would bet that the Foxcon isn't the right impedance. LVD takes 132 ohms and SE takes 90 ohms impedance. This would be VERY true of the terminator also. BIG difference between a LVD terminator and a SE terminator although several quality terminators will switch automatically.

    It is possible to set your drives to run in Single Ended Mode and run with SE cables and termination though, maybe that's what you have. I don't think the B&W had LVD adapters or drives from Apple, only SE.

    You might think about getting the Miles2 Cable and terminator set from the Gurus. I think they still sell them separately from the board, you can get them here:
    http://www.macgurus.com/shoppingcart...tioboards.html

    Or, you might consider the best in Granite Cables and Termination. They cost a little more but no better products exist, anywhere. You will not have to worry about cables, connections or termination when using Granite. You can find them here:
    http://www.macgurus.com/shoppingcart...intcables.html

    Kaye will most likely chime in with his extrordinary knowledge on this subject, we'll see if he has any other ideas.

    Rick

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Mobius Strip
    Posts
    13,045

    Default

    When I bought a 2940U2B that came with FoxConn, it worked, but when I replaced it with the Granite gear, I saw an immediate boost in reads, writes (according to ATTO bench test) went from being a jagged line to flat.

    I like to buy equipment just to try it out. Which is why I just ordered more but even last years IBM ULtraStar 36LZX is the slow dog, then the 10k Cheetah. I paid $309 for 18GB IBM (they've been making drives forever, they ought to know how, right?), and today you can 18GB Cheetah 10k 50-62MB/s (writes) for under $200.

    How's a person suppose to know all this "A1 Bus Mastering" if the manuals (now that they are pdf) and "Install Guide" don't talk about it, huh? Drives me crazy.

    Gregory

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    7,056

    Default

    SoftRAID sez here http://www.softraid.com/readme.lasso#Q4 in note 6 that "If you mirror non-identical disks, select the slower disk to be the mirrored partition." Are you doing that? I've not done any mirroring so I'm grasping at straws. k

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Posts
    9

    Default

    I'm pretty sure the Foxconn is what came with the card when I bought it from MacGurus. I'm happy to try another cable, but I'm surprised that I'd get something from the Gurus that wasn't right.

    SoftRaid seems to always pick one of the drives to be the primary and one the secondary. I'm not sure how to control this, but it still wouldn't explain (a) why the system no longer boots with both drives if they are using the SoftRaid drivers, or (b) why the system hangs when using only one drive setup as half a mirror.

    I tried upgrading the card to the OS X firmware (even though I'm running 9.1) because the notes said it fixed some OS 9 bugs. I expected the updates SmartSCSI to have updated drivers, but it says the drivers it installs are the same as what I was using.

    I've been reinitializing the drives using Drive Setup and then restoring from backup, so the directorys get recreated a lot and are clean. Does Disk Warrior check drive hardware and SCSI operation or just directory structure?

    I've used Drive Setup to do surface scans a lot. (I've also done several low-level formats with write zeros checked, to map out any bad sectors.) I've been trying to locate my TechTools Pro CD to do more thorough tests but I seem to have lost it.

    The system has been running since last night with both drives (using Apple drivers), with periods of heavy disk use (only to one of them, since they're no longer mirrored -- the other is just sitting there). No hangs or problems so far.

    Maybe there is somethign wrong with the card (or the cable?) that only shows up when using the SoftRaid drivers? I'm just guessing here.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •