Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: New HD won't initialize or mount

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Reston, VA, USA
    Posts
    14

    Default

    I'm at my wits end here and I'm not sure where I need to go from here. I just bought a new Miles2 card and Seagate Barracuda drive from here (MacGurus) and I installed them into my 8600, but I can't seem to be able to initialize the HD and/or mount it. Here's an overview of my system, and what I've done so far:

    PowerMac 8600/250 w/ G3-466 XLR8 card, running OS 9.0.4
    480 MB Ram
    Miles2 (PCI slot 1)
    ATI Radeon (PCI slot 2)
    Entrega USB card (PCI slot 3)
    Stock 4GB hard drive in stock location
    Seagate Barracuda (18.4GB ST318437LW) in lower drive bay

    - The barracuda is the only drive on the SCSI cable that came with the Miles2 card, and the only jumpers I put on it were to give it SCSI ID 6 (the stock drive is still operational).
    - I've tried Drive Setup 1.9.2 and it usually gives me the response of "initialization failed"
    - I've tried SoftRAID 2.2.2, but I always get the message "failed to verify driver", loading the driver always comes back with "not enough space to load the driver", and I never seem to get the option to mount the drive.
    - I've got the latest version of Miles 2 SmartSCSI, and the latest firmware.
    - System Profiler recognizes the card and the drive, but says no volumes are mounted.

    I was able to get it to initialize once, and copied some files to it, but when I rebooted the computer the drive didn't mount, and nothing seemed to help (Drive Setup, SoftRAID). I've used Norton SystemWorks to examine the drive, and it usually comes back with some error messages, but when it tries to load the driver and mount the drive, it crashes (Drive Setup does this as well sometimes).

    Am I missing something here? Do I need to do something else with termination on the SCSI card/cable or on the HD?

    I'm really not a hardware person, so don't leave out the obvious things to check and make the explanations as detailed as possible.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Grangeville, ID USA
    Posts
    9,142

    Default

    Jhotz,
    You have one kick butt 8600 there. I have a couple ideas to try on your drive.

    A free utility that will erase the driver/partition map on your Barracuda is available from ATTO @ http://www.attotech.com/protools.html

    If you highlight the barracuda you can erase everything and start over with the drive showing up as un-initialized. I would probably download the 2.2 or 2.3 Drive Setup from Apple, whatever is newest to initialize the drive with. However if ExpressProTools can manipulate the drive and erase the driver it won't hurt to try any of the utilities you have, you can always erase them.

    It doesn't matter which ID number you assign to a drive that's on a added bus. The different busID will keep it different from the bus0 drive.

    You might also reseat the PCI card and check all the cable connections. I realize you've probably done this a zillion times already, forgive me if I say things that seem obvious.

    Resetting the Cuda is useful whenever an added peripheral is causing trouble. Push and hold it down for 30 seconds. That will reset the PRAMs and NVPRAM on the motherboard forcing the boot to reappraise all the hardware on startup. You'll have to go into the control panels and readjust all your preferences as they will be at factory default. (memory, clock, resolution, etc)

    You also might try moving the Miles2 card to another slot if this doesn't work. That sometimes can solve a problem, I couldn't even tell you why. Lastly, you might remove the USB card and try again, incompatibilities can possibly come from that direction too.

    Keep posting what's happening,someone will have an answer along the way.

    Rick

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Reston, VA, USA
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Rick,

    Thanks for all the tips, they are all very helpful. The computer is my home computer, so I won't be able to test them out until tonight, but I'll be sure to post again after I'm succesful (positive thinking).

    I downloaded Protools 2.7, but all I could find for Apple's Drive Setup is 2.0.7, which is part of the 9.2.2 upgrade; Apple only seems to have 1.7.3 available for general download, and that's all versiontracker.com has. Is there a newer version that I just can't find?

    Jonathan

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Grangeville, ID USA
    Posts
    9,142

    Default

    jhotz,
    I'm not actually sure it even matters which version. I am running 9.2.2 on all my current Macs and saw that 2.x was the newest version. If Apple is not posting an update then you got what you got.

    Nothing wrong with the super-quality Softraid drivers, usually faster than Apples. It's just the failure that had me thinking about using Apple Drive Setup.

    For that matter ExpressProTools has a good driver installer. One more utility for your toolbox. Sometimes it pays to have choices.

    Good luck, your tales of success tonight are eagerly awaited.
    Rick

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Reston, VA, USA
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Well, as you may have guessed from not seeing a reply last night, the situation has gone from bad to worse.

    I undid all the connections between the PCI bus, card, cable, and drive, to make sure everything was on nice and tight. Then I held the CUDA switch for 30 seconds, and powered it back up.

    The ATTO ProTools does a good job of erasing the hard drive. But even after I do that, Drive Setup couldn't complete the initialization. Every time I tried it, it would get most of the way, then just say it failed. PT showed that DS wrote all the driver information, and I think I was even able to mount the hard drive, but when I reboot, the drive didn't mount. Drive Setup also can't seem to mount the drive if I initialize it with either PT or SoftRAID.

    SoftRAID was still initializing it, but always came back with the "can't verify driver" error. So I tried PT for the initialization and it seemed to work the best. A couple times it came back with error messages about not being able to mount the drive, but a few times it actually would do that.

    When I finally got it to initialize and mount, I tried to install OS9 so I can use this drive as the boot drive. But a few minutes into the process, it locked up. That's when things started to turn for the worse.

    Now the computer won't even boot properly; it stops at the gray screen w/ the cursor, but never gets to the "drive/smiley" icon before the OS9 screen. It does sound like everything is powering up, though. With the drive intialized and mounted (sortof) it will only boot up if I reset the CUDA. With the drive erased (not initialized) it will boot up fine. The net result is that I can't seem to be able to just powerup the computer, erase the drive, initialize it, and mount it with any regularity. If I could get it to initialize and then mount, I could write some files to it and it would stay mounted through a reboot; just not with trying to load OS9 on it.

    I've tried moving the card around to the different slots, and I've also pulled the USB card, just in case, but it didn't seem to make a difference.

    Does this sound like a problem with the card, drive, computer, or connections? Also, I keep seeing an option for a "low level format". Do I need to do that?

    Jonathan

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Mobius Strip
    Posts
    13,045

    Default

    I'd use FWB HDT 4.5.2 (full) "FWB Configure" to restore the drive's mode pages and factory settings. Make sure there aren't any bad pins etc. I asked about that error message in SoftRAID when it came up for me once, it writes a driver but can't read it back.

    You should not need to low level it. Not now for sure. Running Drive Setup's Test later is just as good - once it is initialized.

    Can you swap out cables and such? Have another drive to test your setup?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Reston, VA, USA
    Posts
    14

    Default

    I've still got the original 4GB drive that shipped with the 8600 hooked up in stock fashion. I had thought about testing a couple things, by either hooking up the new Barracuda to the stock SCSI cable, or putting the old drive on the new cable/card, to see if either of those helped. If I read the SCSI pages here correctly, though, both of these would degrade performance on the new drive.

    I don't have FWB HDT, so I'd have to buy it at $130, which is more than I wanted to spend on this endeavour.

    I was getting really frustrated last night, and I didn't think to try booting the computer with the new hard drive unplugged from the SCSI chain. There's another thread in the forums that talks about unplugging a drive (but giving it power), and once the machine has booted, plugging in the drive and running diagnostics on it. Is it bad to plug a drive in to the SCSI chain with the computer running?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Grangeville, ID USA
    Posts
    9,142

    Default

    Jhotz,
    Not the post you were supposed to be making this morning!

    First, I don't ever want to plug in a scsi drive while my computer is running. I did that once following the destructions from a drive utility. Very bad things happened when I did that. Lost all sorts of data on other drives and spent 3 days rebuilding my system. Other people have had luck doing this but I will always find a way to not.

    You bought the Miles2 kit with cable and the terminator? This sure makes noises like a termination error. Your drive is a LVD drive and will not terminate the bus. My apologies if I cover things you know. You must have an active terminator installed on the end of the cable.

    You will not easily be able to install this drive on the internal bus. The internal is 50 pin narrow connector/bus and the Miles is a 68pin LVD connector/bus.

    Rick

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Reston, VA, USA
    Posts
    14

    Default

    I was all prepared to have good news, and maybe even use that little dancing icon!

    Yup, I bought the Miles2 Kit, with the cable and terminator. Right now the drive is on the next to last plug on the cable, with the terminator on the last plug. I think there's a yellow LED on the terminator, and I seem to remember it being lit.

    So much for that idea about swapping drives and cables.

    Early on in the installation, I was having these initialization problems, and I checked the terminator, and it was a little loose. When I plugged it back in firmly, and rebooted, all of a sudden I had about a dozen drives on my desktop, all ~18GB. It must have been some phantom thing with initializing the drive so many times with improper termination, but they've since gone away.

    Any idea why a CUDA reset will allow a reboot, but a subsequent reboot will hang?

    Jonathan

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Grangeville, ID USA
    Posts
    9,142

    Default

    Thanks for letting me ask what seems like dumb questions, brain farts ya know.

    I've got some customers scheduled for a bit but I will think on this and get back to it. If the drive isn't bad we'll come up with a solution. Gotta run.

    Rick

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Posts
    1,559

    Default

    ¨÷brain farts ya know.

    I call 'em "Senior Moments."

    ¨÷all of a sudden I had about a dozen drives on my desktop, all ~18GB.

    Check your SCSI ID. This is a sign of an ID Conflict. Most of the time, it means the drive is set to ID #7, the same as the SCSI Controller chip.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Peoples Republic of Lawrence, KS, US
    Posts
    1,370

    Default

    ......I'm still on the learning curve here, but it sounds like you have some bizarre stuff going on.

    Oh, hey there lasvegas! You beat me to the punch, but your suggestion is more knowledgeable than mine.

    If it's not set to ID 7 as lasvegas advised you check, then next thing to do is scrutinize the SCSI cable. My Miles2 kit didn't have a cable like that. Can one of you guys comment on the LED terminator in the Miles2 kit?

    Mine was just a plain jane built on to the end.

    My money is on lasvegas's assesment.

    Let us know what you find out about the ID designation.

    c8



    [This message has been edited by crazyeights (edited 08 February 2002).]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    7,056

    Default

    Jonathan,

    I have read thru this entire topic several times but may have missed something somewhere. A few things to confirm:

    1.Miles2 must be in Slot 1. Confirm this in Apple System Profiler or, if the slots are labeled on your motherboard, confirm that way.

    2.You say the latest versions of Miles2 SmartSCSI and firmware inia100.sim. Are they 1.03 and 1.06 respectfully? Initio does have a later SmartSCSI and sim file for OS9 and OSX but a few vintage Mac users have had problems with that.

    3.Your ST318437LW http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/...t318437lw.html you are not trying to install ID jumpers on both jumper blocks J5 and J6, are you? One or the other, but not both. I would remove all jumpers on J5 and J6 and check that no jumpers are installed on jumper block J2. All three jumper blocks, no jumpers installed. This will give you ID0 and enable parity which should also be checked on in Miles2 SmartSCSI.

    4.Remove the Initio twisted-pair LVD cable from both the drive and the Miles2. Now remove the LVD Terminator from the cable. With a magnifying glass and bright light, check that all of the pins are there and no bent pins on any of the connectors, even the unused ones. Check the cable itself that it looks good and particularly the edge wires, wire #1 and wire #68, nothing looks chafed. This cable should not be dressed for looks, no folding over itself, no sharp folds. nice gentle turns. Ugly is good. Dressed may crack a wire.

    5.Check the Miles2 firmly seated in its PCI slot 1. You may want to remove and reinstall. It should look level and be evenly seated where it disappears into the slot itself.

    6.The molex power connector itself, look at the four pins, no blackening, wires connected. Perhaps try another connector if you have one.

    If you find no solutions to the above, let us know. We need to try to find out if it is the Cuda or the Miles2 or the cable or the terminator. The Gurus have a 30 day return/exchange. After that it would be Seagate or Initio. How close are we to 30 days? k

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Reston, VA, USA
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Let me see if I can address all the good suggestions here, and I'll tell you what I tried again last night.

    lasvegas and crazyeights - The first time I put the drive in (monday night), I had it set to SCSI ID 6, which all the software confirmed. The last two nights I just pulled the jumpers so it would go to SCSI ID 0, just in case there was something wrong with the jumpers.

    kaye -
    1. I think I had it slot 1 most of the time. I put it in the uppermost slot on the motherboard (I'm sorry, I don't know if that's slot 1 or not off the top of my head), but I did try other slots as well.

    2. I downloaded SmartSCSI 1.06 and SIM 1.05 from Initio. This may be where a problem is arising from.

    3. Nope, I just put jumpers on one block(J6), but later removed them altogether.

    4. I was pretty good about not dressing it to look good and making sure I didn't crimpt/fold it anywhere, in fact the last two nights I just had the side door off with wires and things hanging out. I did look at the cable again last night, and it appears as though some of the side wires have come loose from the protective plastic sheathing, but I didn't see any nicks in the wire casing. I was concerned about this, so this may be another area where a problem has arisen. I looked at all the plugs on the cable, and each one had all the pins and they were all straight. There was only one pin, one of the jumper pins on the hard drive, that was slightly bent; I wasn't using it but I straightened it anyway. My G3 card had a bent jumper which was causing major instability, and when I straightened it out it worked like a charm.

    5. I pulled the card a number of times, and reseated it to make sure it was in proprely, I even looked at the little copper ends (PCI bus connection) to make sure there weren't any that got damaged.

    6. I looked at the molex connector and didn't see any damage to it or the pins on the hard drive; no discoloring or anything.

    I purchased the card and drive on Tuesday, Jan 29, received it on Monday, and started installing it that night.

    Now, here's what I did last night. After pulling, checking, and replugging, I removed all the other cards, so there was just the Miles2 card left. I got the computer to reboot, and was able to erase the HD with ExpressPro Tools.

    - I tried Drive Setup (1.9.2 and 2.0.7) and neither would initialize it. I got the same "Initialization Failed" message, but when I checked the drie with EP Tools, it looks like all the driver stuff was written properly; it looked the same as my stock drive.
    - I tried SoftRAID 2.2.2 and got the same "failed to verify driver" message. Checking the drive in EP Tools looked like the drivers were there, although there were only 3 "partitions" compared to 6 or 7 with DS.
    - I tried EP Tools 2.7 and got the same "-60" or "-58" error message when it tried to mount the drive. EP Tools seemed to be able to initialize the drive, but had problems mounting it; sometimes it would mount the drive, but see the next paragraph. DS could not mount the drive either.

    While the hard drive was in it's unformatted/uninitialized state, I could reboot the computer repeatedly and it would start up. If I ever initialized it, and got it mounted using EP Tools, the computer would not reboot (hung at the gray screen) unless I reset the CUDA. Although, at the end of the night, it would get past that, but on the MacOS screen, I would get a bus error, or some other error, with the "Reboot" option. This happened a couple times until I gave up.

    At this point I was at the end of my rope, and I'd run out of things to try, so I decided to pack up the computer and take it to MacHeaven (no I didn't shoot it, there's a store nearby called MacHeaven) and have the technician there take a look at it. I dropped it off this morning, and they said they can probably get to it this afternoon. Hopefully they'll be able to tell if there's a problem with the card, drive, computer, or user. I'll be sure to post what I hear from them.

    Thank you all for your great suggestions; none of them were too dumb or obvious. It certainly has been a good learning experience.

    Jonathan

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cordova, TN
    Posts
    2,428

    Default

    If you put jumpers on NO pinsets on J2 that gives you ID=0 and all the other proper settings.

    Then open Miles 2 Smart SCSI App. Across the top it should say "Miles U2W Firmware Version 1.06" (or 1.05). In the window it should read Max Sync Rate 80 across the board. Also, Asynchronus Transfer should be blank across the board. Disconnect Enable should be checked. Wide Negotiation Enable should be checked. Termination Setup should be set "Automatic". Host Adapter SCSI ID = 7. SCSI Parity Check Enable should be checked.

    If you still have problems with these settings would either have a bad drive or a bad cable/terminator.

    Or, have you bent some connector pins??

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    769

    Default

    Hey guys, j:

    If you don't see what Louie describes and you need to flash the Miles2 firmware, remember to disconnect the SCSI cable from the card, reboot, then flash the card. It might help to do this while adjusting all the settings in the SmartSCSI software, as described by Louie. Then shut down, reconnect and reboot again.

    Check that the middle light on the Miles2 card is lit (the LVD indicator). The light farthest from the PCI connector should flash with disk activity. Check continuity on all your cable wires with an Ohmmeter across the matching pins at each end while it is out of the box.

    If all is well so far, you absolutely need to do a low level format (I'd use SoftRaid) before you do anything else. You may have multiple drivers or parts of drivers installed or you may have a PC-formatted drive or some such oddity.

    If the drive won't make it through a low level format (and all else is OK) then it is kaputenschtickenstinkenstein, A low level format is a pretty good test of drive integrity (unfortunately, it's a pretty good way to expose a bad cable, a bad terminator, a SCSI ID conflict, etc. etc,, etc, so be diligent about making those other things right).

    over and out

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Peoples Republic of Lawrence, KS, US
    Posts
    1,370

    Default

    Louie!

    It's really you! How the hell are you man?

    You've been missed around here Mr.

    I hope all is well in your neck ofthe woods!

    c8

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Grangeville, ID USA
    Posts
    9,142

    Default

    Hey Jonathan,

    Just wanted to check and see if you'd had an answer to your problem from the repair shop. The last time I posted I said I get back to you and didn't, however I sent out a call to all the Forum Dudes and hoped one of them could pinpoint the problem. I guessed that either the drive or the card is bad but hoped someone would narrow it down some or prove me wrong.(not that hard to prove me wrong sometimes )

    The Gurus will stand behind what they sell, no exceptions. So give em a call anytime you have need.

    Rick

    [This message has been edited by ricks (edited 10 February 2002).]

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Reston, VA, USA
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Rick,
    I guess that explains the droves of gurus on this thread. It looks like the guru cavalry has been called out for my problem.

    I talked with the repair tech this morning, and he was having similar results in his diagnosis of the problem. I think he said he got it to initialize and mount, but then was having problems when he tried to write/read to the drive. He wanted to try and eliminate any possible conflicts, and wanted to put the original processor card back into the computer, so I had to drop off the old 250MHz card at lunch time. I think he got called out on a service call, but he said he'd get back to it first thing in the morning. I'll keep this thread updated with what I find out.

    To all the other moderators who posted recently, I haven't had my computer since Friday morning, so I've been unable to try any of the suggestions.

    Thanks again for everyone's help with this problem. You guys (and any gals) go to great lengths with the tech support, and it's certainly appreciated.

    Jonathan

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Reston, VA, USA
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Ok, I just talked with the tech this morning, and it looks like a problem with the HD.

    He hooked up the new HD to the stock SCSI cable, using an adapter, and the computer wouldn't boot up and was showing the same signs as on the Miles2 card/cable. He then unhooked it and hooked up another drive to the Miles2 card/cable and it worked fine. He's not sure if all the initialization that I/he tried may have messed up the drive, or if it had problems to start with.

    So, I'll give the gurus a call this afternoon and workout getting a new drive. Thanks again for everyone's help. I'll re-read this thread when I get the new drive to make sure I install it correctly.

    Jonathan

    [This message has been edited by jhotz (edited 13 February 2002).]

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •