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Thread: Mac B+W configuration w/ Cheetahs

  1. #21
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    excellent advice, gentlemen. Walking away when you are frustrated will always help.

    Sarah, make sure that you reseat the Miles2, and disconnect all cables attached to it, when you update it to firmware 1.06b. Make sure you use a compatible version of SmartSCSI to do it, and follow the directions on how to execute the update carefully. It is not the easiest firmware update to execute, and the procedure is not well-documented, IMO.

    they key is to ensure that you have the correct versions in the same FOLDER. Initio makes this even harder by using confusing naming conventions for these files.

    once you have reseated the Miles2 and flashed it successfully, then you can update drivers on your Cheetahs with SoftRAID 2.2.2 or Drive Setup 1.9.2, whatever you are using.

    then you can return to your clean install, and then use the Software Update control panel to update.

    remember the edifice must have a stable foundation, or it will come crashing down.

    and Louie is right: memory is the great pretender.



    [This message has been edited by magician (edited 15 October 2000).]

  2. #22
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    Yesterday (Sunday), my college senior son came home and supervised while I pulled the XCLAIM and Miles 2 cards, disconnected the Cheetahs , and removed a stealth serial port.(I had never done any of this before.) My son studied the instructions and diagrams on your site, and on the last Cheetah in the chain (closest to the cable terminator) on jumper block J2 terminated pins S1 and S2 to provide power to the active termination.
    We did not reconnect any of the above to the computer.
    Installed OS 9.04 (clean install).Color-coded extensions and control panels.
    Downloaded Power Control from the FTP site (thank you for suggesting this.)
    We launched iCab, Eudora, Internet Explorer, and Fetch.
    iCab quit with error type 3. While I was typing a reply to your posts yesterday, Internet Explorer quit with no error message--just disappeared off the face of the earth. There were no other apps running at the time.
    Ran Power Control for the night--an 8-hr test. I will paste the results to the end of this reply.
    So, unless someone can interpret the RAM test as showing a problem, I am completely stumped.There are no other peripherals connected to the computer. I have not done any updates to anyting yet,since I wanted to get a heads-up/thumbs up from you.
    Last night, after the crashes occurred, I read through the many pages of log that I kept on the first G3 all last year. What's happening on the second computer appears to be identical--same random errors, same random quits,same protocol for troubleshooting. (A sinking feeling ensued. Does this mean that I am the cause of all these issues?) At the suggestion of Apple back in June, the computer
    is plugged into a hefty UPS as a precaution.
    Next step, erase the HD and reinstall 9.04? Here are the memory test results:I was curious about it saying that there is no L2 cache and the processor speed being 0.
    System Version: 9.0.4

    * System Update Version: 1.0
    * Multiprocessing is available (the MP Library is installed).
    Processors:
    * There is one PPC 750 processor operating at 0 MHz installed in
    your system.
    Memory:
    * You have 320 MB of RAM installed in your system.
    * There is no level 2 cache installed.
    * Memory interleaving allows the processor to access memory more
    quickly. In order to interleave memory, DIMMs must be installed in
    matching pairs. If you have two identical DIMMs, install them in
    matching sockets (e.g., A1 and A2*).
    *Note: The DIMM sockets are in two banks, with each bank labeled
    "A-F". PowerControl refers to the lower bank as "1" and the upper
    bank as "2", so that the first DIMM in the lower bank is "A1"
    * DIMMs A1 (508 MB) and A2 (1024 MB) are interleaved to allow
    faster access by the processor.
    * DIMMs B1 (2564 MB) and B2 (1020 MB) are interleaved to allow
    faster access by the processor.
    * DIMMs C1 (3200 MB) and C2 (3460 MB) are interleaved to allow
    faster access by the processor.
    * DIMMs D1 (896 MB) and D2 (3200 MB) are interleaved to allow
    faster access by the processor.
    * DIMMs F1 (1538 MB) and F2 (2878 MB) are interleaved to allow
    faster access by the processor.
    SCSI Devices:
    * There is 1 SCSI bus.
    * Bus 0 is Internal
    ID 7: DayStar Power Macintosh CPU, System version 9.0.4.
    PCI Cards:
    * There is 0 PCI Slot.

  3. #23
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    I am beginning to suspect that you have some bad memory.

    the guidance from Apple to use an UPS is very good advice. It's one of those things that I often forget here as we use a bunch of 1000va APC units on all our machines.

    we really need to sell UPS's. They are one thing you should automatically buy at the same time you buy a computer. Dirty power can really play havoc with a machine, and spikes can literally torch your hardware.

  4. #24
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    Sarah:

    PowerControl has not been updated for OS 9, thus the 0 MHz CPU reading. The "No L2 Cache" applies only to legacy machines with L2 on the logic board. All that stuff about interleaving, again, only applies to legacy machines; real G3's can't interleave.

    What you don't show is the actual RAM test. To the right click on "Tests"; then, in the next window click "Memory". In the Memory test window choose "Extended" and set the time for it to run. Overnight is best. You will see the actual memory writes as they progress. I also find it useful to open the "Application Load" window and drag it up and out of the way.

    One other thing, you want the termination power for your HD to come from the SCSI bus, not the HD.

  5. #25
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    sarah
    a thought. have you tried pulling all your ram except one module (at least 32 meg) so you can run your system wiith extensions off? if that works, then try installing each ram module a piece at a time.

    M

  6. #26
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    Will test the RAM again tonight, following your suggestions. Will also try running the computer with only 64 megs and extensions off when I have a moment.
    As far as the termination of the (still disconnected) Cheetahs goes:does the jumper need to be removed from S1 and S2? I am not clear on termination and will need some guidance when it is time to reconnect peripherals.
    (Have not had a lot of time for troubleshooting tonight--school is keeping me busy.)
    Holding my breath as I type this. So far only my grading program has quit with a type 2 error-( eClass Grades, notorious for being unstable anyway.) In my moments of denial, I tell myself that Netscape and Internet Explorer are not necessarily that stabl,either-- But then I think of all those Macs that you have running so well there, and I realize that I shouldn't have to use my computer while holding my breath.
    Thanks for your continuing help.

  7. #27
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    Sarah, we need to get Magician and Kaye, the Cheetah experts to verify, but Termination and Termination Power are two different things. The SCSI host provides termination power, not the drive and I think you said your son changed that.

  8. #28
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    right.

    set term power, TP, to draw FROM the bus.

    the host card, whatever it is, will provide more than enough, generally.

    it is rare that you have to set TP to provide term power TO the bus.

    let's take this step by step. if we get ahead of ourselves, we'll all just get confused.

    I know it is easier for me, in particular, to handle short, sweet posts.

    I would like to see memory testing done by the numbers. Once we get that under control, we can proceed.

    there is absolutely no reason why Sarah should be holding her breath while she uses her Mac....though I hope Jorge is lurking on this thread. I know he's had some tussles with Yosemites, too.

  9. #29
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    Checked the 8 hr. memory test results before leaving for work this morning. Zero errors. Now should I pull out all but the 64 megs and run the machine for a while?Sorry about the long posts. Will try to keep them shorter and more objective.

  10. #30
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    Hi Sarah,

    sorry to hear about these problems. How are you connecting to the internet? Via dsl, cable or dial up modem connection?

    Your problems sound like the issues I had with the TransIntl ram. It passed all the ram tests I through at it, but my machine always ram funny with them installed. As soon as I pulled them, all my problems went away.

    My Yosemite has some issues. I was getting corruption notices on any data I got through the built in ethernet port. Aol would crash, running FIlemaker would give us file corruption notices and any file I pulled off the server or my machine would not copy correctly. I purchased a PCI network card and the network issues are gone. Though I am not comfortable with this machine since the problem might continue throught the logic board.

    Also, check your cdrom/dvdrom cable. Mine had a hole in it. One of the wires was missing or cut. Just had another ide cable and it seems to work.

    I added dual 9 GB Cheetahs and an Initio Miles U2W card. The computer usually will not boot. Freezes in the gray screen. I need to pull the power cord, remove the pram battery and zap the pram. Plug it back in and it boots.

    Preowned electronics is getting logic boards for these computers and I am going to replace this one. Might get some Macgurus ram as well as a new processor just in case. This machine is going to be my eims server and I cannot have any issues while running.

    Check you ide cable for any holes or cracks. The machine might be loosing data as it installs OS 9 or copies from the drives. Might explain the data corruption if the ram isn't bad. I think Magician is going to stock the Granite Digital IDE cables.

    Please keep us posted on what you encounter. Also, are you using the latest version of iCab? It fixes alot if issues.

    Jorge

  11. #31
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    I'm going to disconnect the computer from the internet and see if that has any effect on the crashes. I have never looked closely at that as a source of problems. Will pull the extra memory if that doesn't work, to keep tests simple. My logs last year indicated that the other G3 kept crashing despite being stripped down.
    Will also inspect my cables, as you suggested.
    If one of the problems has to do with the onboard ethernet port, does that mean Apple should be taking responsibility? Or does that come from my cable modem?--(which is on a hub, BTW.) Don't mean to jump ahead of myself.
    Network PCI cards--how expensive are they?
    A continuing thanks to all.

  12. #32
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    you're on a cable service? the whole cable network for the internet in this area has been totally shut down for over a week. hundred's of thousands are affected. (not me though. i trust ma bell. been a round a lot longer.) there may be an issue there with their network connection.

    sara .... smile!

    M

  13. #33
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    a good network card by Asante or Farallon run about $50.

    The G3 here seems to be getting worse. It must have gotten a power surge or something of that sort through the ethernet port. I ordered a replacement motherboard today and will see if this fixes my problems.

    As Michael says, keep smiling Sarah.

    Jorge

  14. #34
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    When you mentioned that the Ethernet port might be the culprit, I went looking for other posts to that effect. Apple's TIL doesn't show anything (that I could find.) How should I test the ethernet port/connection? Our service here (Roadrunner) has been pretty reliable. I have an old (slow) modem somewhere--Would hooking the G3 up to my phone line allow me to test the stability of my browsers and other apps?
    Will take all but 64 megs of memory out tonight and test.
    I have thought of configuring the machine solely to run Premiere 5.1c, but wasn't the G3 designed to handle more than one app?

  15. #35
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    If you're using RoadRunner, it uses the Ethernet port, so you're OK there. Apple has had tons of internal modem trouble, but it's been firmware and modem scripts.

    [This message has been edited by Louie (edited 19 October 2000).]

  16. #36
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    sara
    actually testing the configuration you have with an outside modem is a good idea. if you do have one, just make sure you download the latest modem scripts for your modem before using it.

    M

  17. #37
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    I finally took the added 3rd party memory out of the computer today, erased the HD, reinstalled OS 9.04 (extensions and CP's are color-coded.). So far no mishaps, although I haven't been on the machine for long at this point.. I am running it with 64 megs of ram, which isn't really enough to work with Premiere, but I need to test everything else first. Before I took these fairly drastic measures, nothing was working properly--Netscape had mysteriously stopped recognizing any settings, Quicken 2001 and Appleworks 6 were freezing regularly. All things internet were extremely slow. Eudora 4.3.3 was working, slowly, but outgoing email would only include my attachments some of the time.
    Are there system updates that I should be installing before going any further?
    In your opinion, what should I be doing, and in what order? Am planning to install some more apps tomorrow, but for the time being I have only added the Western Digital Software for the firewire drive, and a new copy of Eudora 4.3.3 (5.0 was unavailable for download tonight.) I am using Netscape 4.7 as the default browser.
    I wasn't able to test my internet applications with an external modem--I had thought that the Stealth Serial Port would accomodate my old 14.4 , but no such luck. Our cable modem is also connected to a beige G3 (which is rock solid...), which seems to indicate that it (the cable modem) is not causing the problems.
    Looking forward to getting this configured properly. Thanks for your help.

  18. #38
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    Sara:

    Use Apple's Software Update Control Panel to see if there are updates you need. Tell it NOT to update automatically so you can see what it gives you and choose.

    This is beginning to look like you've had funky RAM all along. Just add one RAM module at a time. Didn't you run PowerControl RAM test earlier?

    Netscape 4.76 was released today. I haven't tried it yet, but 4.75 was pretty good.



    [This message has been edited by Louie (edited 24 October 2000).]

  19. #39
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    I turned on my computer at 6:30 this morning to check email and was unable to connect with the server. Same was true of Netscape. Also booted up our beige G3 which is on the same cable modem, and it was fine. Another anomaly: I've noticed in the past week or two that before the happy mac icon appears at startup, there is a split second flash on the screen --once it was the Quicken 2001 splash screen (correct term?), and the rest of the time it has been various random lines/designs/colors...it's pretty strange.
    I am not out of the woods...Help. It's going to be embarrassing to call Apple and say that this is the second computer with the same issues...

  20. #40
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    No updates were necessary, according to the Update control panel. I installed Appleworks 6.0 and Toast 4.02. Appleworks froze immediately. Was able to burn a couple of CDs --which is ironic, because I had always had trouble with USB (CDRW and floppy drive) before OS 9.04. Netscape and Eudora worked after a restart and were faster than before I pulled out the memory.
    However, when I shut down and tried to restart, the computer was dead--no juice
    whatsoever. Tried to restart again this morning, but still nothing. I don't know if I am the cause of two G3 demises, or if I am just particularly unluckywith the B+W.I don't think I can put off the call to Apple any longer. Thank you to all for your support, patience, and humor.

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