Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32

Thread: ethernet for dummies

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Beaufort & Chapel Hill, NC, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Hello All,
    I've decided to go ahead and go with cable internet (roadrunner) but
    only because my oldest son wants it and is willing to split the cost
    with me. (cheap? budgeted yes). I called the cable company and they
    told me in order to use it on two computers I would have to get a
    ethernet hub. I have to much going on right now to try and research
    all the different products available on today's market. I went to
    eBay and what's available seems pretty straight forward but?????????
    Is there one to or not to buy. Would someone please look at this link
    and tell me what they would recommend. The cheaper the better but I
    don't want to sacrifice performance. I plan to connect a PTP to a PT.
    It's a fair distance between our rooms and from what little I've
    learned the coax I already have wont work right?
    Where would be the best place to buy 60' + or - of cable?
    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    http://search-desc.ebay.com/search/s...rchdesc=y&Sort Property=MetaEndSort&BasicSearch=&from=R2&catref=C3

    [This message has been edited by mac-in-tosh (edited 01 November 2002).]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    miami, fl, usa
    Posts
    545

    Default

    ethernet hubs/switches are not platform specific, at least PC vs Mac. However, a switch is different from a hub and there is usually a price difference reflecting that a switch does a better job negotiating simultaneous traffic over the network and can make for a faster network when is is of a size to matter. Your modest plans don't indicate that your set up will have the traffic to make a difference. I have had great luck with both my 'linksys' switch and both an 'asante' hub and 'asante' switch. Another however, if you plan to share the internet connection over your network you will need a router, and these are available as combination switches, or combined with wireless access (compatible with airport), albeit for increasing cost. I have a 'Macsense' router and it has been continuously sharing my cable internet over my home LAN for over two years, non stop and trouble free, and it was a breeze to set up. I have also experimented with software routers (sustworks.com) and they are a little more work to set up, require one machine to be always on and to have two ethernet ports (most likely via a PCI card). As far as the cable, are you going to attach the RJ-45 connectors yourself or do you need it with the jacks on the ends? I have nearly 500' of it left over from an over-ambitious project of my own and will gladly cut you the length you want and send it USPS Priority Mail for cost. I can attach the ends as well.
    ps. my cable company offers shared internet to customers at additional cost and although I haven't looked into their set up I imagine that they would have to be either routing it somehow or allowing two different ethernet mac addresses to connect to their server. Do you know which way they plan to do it (if you are ordering this option)?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Mobius Strip
    Posts
    13,045

    Default

    Look for a router + hub or router + switch. the router provides a MAC address, should have built-in firewall (ESSENTIAL in today's world) and makes setup a breeze.

    cable modem -> router/switch -> 2 computers.

    Hubs may be couple dollars cheaper.
    www.dealmac.com or Amazon or www.google.com/mac.html should help

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Beaufort & Chapel Hill, NC, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    When I ordered the cable I was told that to use two computers (online) I would need an additional ip at $6 per month and I needed to get a hub to make it work and that's how this all started.
    With the software router could I use a Quadra 650 or would I need something faster? I have a couple of them that are just collecting dust. I'll have to look but I think I also have a nubus ethernet card for it?
    The software method might be more complicated than I have time for right now depending on the cost the other way, I may be forced to take the time to learn it now rather than later?
    I'm thinking that while I'm doing this I may want to connect a third computer for my other kids. I have a 9600 in the living room for them but when they want to use the web they have to come to my room. I'm thinking I could connect it there and password it. Would that require another ip or can we share one? I have five kids at home 19, 18, 15, 15, 11, definitely a house full.
    bif, I'll definitely take you up on the cable and will need the ends put on if it's not to much trouble, that will save me the cost of a crimper. I'll measure and let you know what I need and be glad to pay you for it.
    Did you by chance check the eBay link out? They have all kinds of switches/hubs for sale. Thanks for all the help.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    NW Montana
    Posts
    8,197

    Default

    mac-in-tosh

    Search in the "Networking and Security" forum for my name "rwm" there are a few GREAT posts that are semi recent with good info for beginers.. I just did it.

    Also with the router/switch it appears the ISP has no idea if your using 1 computer or 4 .... so why pay more?

    Randy

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Beaufort & Chapel Hill, NC, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    I called the tech support at roadrunner and was told if I use a hub they charge more for another ip. I don't think I need another ip so a router is the way to go unless maybe a switch would work for my modest application? Next is to look at the (software router). Where would be a good place to look for the software to build a router? or should I just plan to buy a router and be done with it?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    NW Montana
    Posts
    8,197

    Default

    I really think you can find a router/switch combo for 50 bucks. No extra ISP charges, firewall, much easier to manage - just do it.

    It's not a bad price.... and does alot. I have enjoyed mine and get more use than expected - with your house full I am sure you will soon realize "this is nice"

    I have the time today - I'll search a few prices for you. Gregory often has an inside scoop on any hot deals.. .

    Randy

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Beaufort & Chapel Hill, NC, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Makes good sense to me The cable tech recommended one of these brands, SMC, Linkys, Elink, or Netgear. I'm going to watch eBay as well as look for a new one. Thanks again, I'll be in touch on the cable


    Ken

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    NW Montana
    Posts
    8,197

    Default

    Here are a few vendors... search router
    MacMall
    MacWAREHOUSE
    CDW
    PC/MAC Connection

    Try them and post back

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Beaufort & Chapel Hill, NC, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    How about Belkin? This one is only $30 + shipping after the mail in rebate.
    http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/...sp?dpno=793320

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    NW Montana
    Posts
    8,197

    Default

    I don't see a switch mentioned. Call the 800 number and ask them. A switch allows all the computers to downliad at full speed rather than spliting speed. Ask about the Mac compatability? Don't buy a head ache.

    Randy

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Mobius Strip
    Posts
    13,045

    Default

    NetGear 4 Port Cable/DSL Wireless Router: $49.99

    Amazon.com lowered their price on the NetGear MR314 Cable/DSL Wireless 4-Port NAT Router to $49.99 after a $30 mail in rebate. It's the lowest priced wireless router we've seen. http://www.dealsontheweb.com/deal-de...ml?dealid=4324

    That is wireless. With 4 ports. As for sharing net connection, my DSL is 1MB/sec and a hub is 5MB/s while cable can go higher you'd have to try hard. It's when sharing files between Macs etc that a switch comes in handy, or a number of users downloading video/music etc
    www.dslreports.com is a handy guide. There are tons of things I had to learn - or so I thought, but more because so many users had trouble with some Linksys routers and OS X was new.

    Networking: MicroCenter: 20% Off - From 10/17/2002 to 10/18/2002
    MicroCenter is offering 20% off on all Wireless and Wired Networking products. Deals include Wireless Broadband routers for $59.99, $4.99 10/100 Ethernet PC Cards, 5 Port Ethernet Switches for $14.99 and more.

    Networking: D-Link Networking Deals - From 10/04/2002 to 10/07/2002
    ENPC.com offers the D-Link DSS-5+ 5 Port 10/100BT Switch for $22.95 after a $10.00 mail in rebate. Also available is the D-Link DI-604 4 Port Cable/DSL Router for $35.00 after a $10.00 rebate, the D-Link DSS-8+ 8 Port 10/100BT Switch for $37.00 after an $8.00 mail in rebate and the D-Link DSS-16+ 16 port 10/100BT Switch for $69.00 after a $16 mail in rebate. http://www.dealsontheweb.com/deal-click.php?id=3920
    www.google.com/mac.html turned up these two: http://www.silentway.com/links/mac.html http://www.macnightowl.com/news/2001/02/week3.htm

    quote:


    Do you ever visit your favorite computer superstore in search of some networking hardware, only to find that the sales people don't speak your language? Perhaps you want an Ethernet hub, or some cable. Fine and dandy, but then you drop the magic words "will it work on my Mac?," they look puzzled or mumble something about not carrying any Mac networking products.

    I've seen this time and time again, even though most of these products will work just fine on either the Mac or Windows platform, they imagine there is some magic button that speaks Mac, without which the component or cable will not function. Worse, you look at the label on the box and see that it specifically lists Macs (and usually Linux) as among the compatible platforms. If you attempt to show them the error of their ways, you'll get, at most, a foul stare as you walk towards the checkout counter.

    The other side of the coin is putting in Mac compatibility as an afterthought. You buy the product, take it home, and find that the documentation has illustrations showing Windows installation, and that the setup CD, if there's one at all, is equally alien to our favorite computing platform. I ran across this situation just the other day, on low-cost cable/DSL router/switch purchased by a client. Efforts to get the product to work came to no avail, so I made a house call to check into the situation.

    Most of these products use Web-based configuration schemes. The usual procedure is to set up the TCP/IP Control Panel to access your Ethernet network, with the Using DHCP Server option selected. You open your favorite browser, enter the IP number for the router, and the administration interface should pop up in short order. From here, a brief setup manual should be sufficient to take most users through the basic process of mating the router to their broadband Internet service. The client was confused, however, because the little setup card only spoke Windows.

    Worse, the CD came with Windows-based files (although I was able to open the electronic manuals in Adobe Acrobat without difficulty). In the end, Mac compatibility was an afterthought, just the consequence of the fact that the standards to which the product adhered worked pretty much the same on both platforms.

    The outcome to this little visit was only a partial success. The client was using a broadband service that downloaded via cable modem, but uploaded by a conventional analog modem. Though not mentioned in the product information, this router (and most routers) don't support that sort of split communications scheme. Until his neighborhood is rewired to provide two-way service via cable, the router is working strictly as an Ethernet switch.


    You need to know how your cable service works. I love the ease of DSL, get great 1MB/s and doesn't use dial up or phone line (I use to need a dedicated phone line).

    Also, Review of using router + switch: http://www.insanely-great.com/reviews/linksys.html


    [This message has been edited by Gregory (edited 01 November 2002).]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Beaufort & Chapel Hill, NC, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Well it seems to happen every time I try to make an {informed} purchase for one of my Mac's. After several hours now of reading different reviews etc I find myself more informed and knowing what I want but not who makes / supports it. I want a cable router with switch. Better yet one that offers cable and wireless would be nice. I thought I had found one (cable) with the NetGear RP614 Router/switch but after reading the reviews I fear maybe not. One of the reviewers said he couldn't get it or a replaced one (new) to work RIGHT with time warners road runner cable service which happens to be the only one available in my area. I don't want to waist more of my time or money so I guess by the end of the weekend sacrificing only sleep and all my time I could be in the same place looking for someone who offers what I'm looking for, a dependable ethernet router/switch for Mac that will work RIGHT with road runner cable service. One with good support and software setup/install would be a real mind blow. I've read some of the previous posts and will probably have read them all by monday morning. Ahhhhhh the fun of it all!!


    Anyone who has a Rock steady cable modem / router using road runner please chime in.

    Yes, Gregory unfortunately I know exactly what you mean
    I love my Mac's but not all this ~*~*~*~*~*!!

    Thanks!
    Ken


    [This message has been edited by mac-in-tosh (edited 02 November 2002).]

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Mobius Strip
    Posts
    13,045

    Default

    Two heads are better than one, or so they say

    D-Link has some good products. I found a list of cable/dsl rotuer/switche at Amazon for under $40.

    Another model: Di-804 along with D-Link Cable Modem $49 easy to setup and use, supports Mac and all major OS platforms.

    I'll leave you with this excellent Deal-Mac forum thread Hassle-free Routers? .

    Gregory

    [This message has been edited by Gregory (edited 02 November 2002).]

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Beaufort & Chapel Hill, NC, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Here's my current list which will surely grow. I had to quit at 4 am but here I am back at it. I'm actually looking forward to mowing the yard today so I can get away from this I'll probably end up closing my eyes and pointing at one of these routers to make my "{informed}" decision. I tried to talk to a road runner tech but he said they weren't allowed to make recommendations hummmmm!? My head is still a fog but I've read in more than one place about problems with networking games, on-line I believe? Something about only allowing one ip address? While I personally don't care I'm sure my 19 year old son will and who knows I may find time in the future to play?


    Belkin F5D5230-4 $29.95 after $20 rebate S/H $9.96 Total $39.91 http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/...sp?dpno=793320

    D-LINK DI-604 CABLE / DSL ROUTER $32.00 S/H 7.29 Total $39.29 http://www.enpc.com/cgi-bin/enpc/DI-604.html

    D-Link DI-604 - $34.49 after $10.00 Rebate: S/H $9.96 Total $44.45 http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/...sp?dpno=973450

    NetGear RP614 S/H free Total $57.95 http://www.techdepot.com/product.asp...d=874&adid=874

    US Robotics with Print Server $59.99 S/H $11.31 Total $71.30 http://www2.warehouse.com/product.as...VW87579&cat=pc

    Linksys Cable/DSL Route $69.99 S/H $10.46 Total $80.45 http://www2.warehouse.com/product.as...cat=networking

    Macsense XRouter Pro Internet $99.99 S/H $9.96 Total $109.95 http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/...sp?dpno=956156

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Wytheville, VA, USA
    Posts
    237

    Default

    This question may sound dumb but when you get a wireless router, do you need to also purchase wireless PCI cards for every computer on the network? Or can they generally be hardwired to a nearby computer, as well? It seems ludicrous to have to spend another 80 bucks or so for a wireless card for a computer sitting on the same table as the wireless router.

    The more I look into cabling the more I lean toward a wireless network when I finally network my home. Since I will only have three computers on the network it seems that it wouldn't be that much more expensive to go wireless, assuming I'll only need 2 wireless cards rather than 3.

    Jim

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    miami, fl, usa
    Posts
    545

    Default

    When you use a router, be it wireless (and an airport base station is much like a router) you set your preferences to DHCP and the router distributes ip addresses to the machines on your LAN, negating the need to pay your cable company every month for additional services. Of course, if you shut down your router you can get a different ip when you power it back up again ( the ip from the cabel company to your router) and every time you shut down and restart one of the machines on your LAN you can get a different ip from the router. But the ip addresses that the router assigns to your macs are solely for use within the LAN. The router does not show these addresses to any computer outside your network (essentially this is the added protection you get by setting things up this way, it is also a huge oversimplification).
    A detailed explanation is available at where you can also get a software router to try out.
    I have the MacSense router/switch and attbroadband (used to be mediaone, used to be roadrunner). It has been rock steady for over two years of continuous use, and it was a breeze to set up. Sometimes you pay 'up front' and get 'trouble free' performance. My home LAN has grown from two machines accessing the internet to five hardwired over ethernet and three over airport, all using that little old macsnse router and all connected simultaneously, knock on wood.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Beaufort & Chapel Hill, NC, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    I have read and read and have a pretty good understanding of how a router, switch, hub, and different combinations of them all work. It actually seems pretty simple. It's only when I start reading others horror stories that I think, ok they've taken the time to post the problems they've had to try and help others avoid the same problems as well as to try (sometimes) to get them selves untangled. The problem with Mac's is trying to find good support as well as a good product. It seems that Again if your a windoze client for $10 you simple pop in the disc and off you go and the software installs and supports it all, but not Mac, it's the same old story for the most part configure it yourself and hope it works. Tech support usually includes duhhh it's a Mac? Further more any extra frills like a print server or ? simple isn't supported for the Mac. Hasn't USB become pretty much a standard?, at least where printers are concerned? If so then why is the print option in parallel ? Hello out there there isn't a parallel connector on a Mac and USB is here to stay. I haven't written ton's of code but I do know it wouldn't be that hard to write an install program for Mac. I guess it's the old supply and demand and to an extent rightfully so but damn! I've been a loyal Mac user since the beginning but it's become increasingly harder to stay that way. I mean damn, Bill Gates still owns part of Apple right? I'm thinking they've probably gotten most of the bugs out of the pirated software anyway, right? The only thing that keeps me loyal to Mac is the companies that continue to support us the Mac User like the good people at Gurus. My hat's off to you, and thank you for continuing to be there. It's plain to see that Apple isn't going to support us. It started out that Mac's were just a superior machine and while all my friends were crashing I was tooling along with my rock steady Mac. Actual it's been mostly clones since Power Computing came along and still long after they're gone but the OS has been Mac. I like being a Mac user but it's becoming increasing harder to remain loyal and if it were not for people like those here at Gurus I afraid Mac would lose my vote. I don't believe there is still such a wide gap as there once was when it comes to all the attributes and dependability of one verses the other. Of coarse that's just my opinion.
    Now back to the business at hand, routers.
    To answer JB's question, yes you have to have a card for each computer except for the one it's actually hard wired to. Personally I'm afraid there's to much distance and debris between my #1 machine and my #3 to make wireless an option for me. Although I'd like to have a router that goes both ways so if I wanted I could connect my powerbook to the network but unfortunately my powerbook isn't worth it and I'm afraid a new one isn't in my budget right now. It would work for my living room computer (#2) but right now it's not a priority and the additional cost isn't justified.
    After all my research I think I like the Hawking because it mentions support for Macs but I'm a bit frustrated that I could have bought it last thursday for $19 + shipping and today it's $65 + shipping???????? http://www.techdepot.com/Product.asp...287224&iid=331 Possible cheaper somewhere else but not $19.
    I've got to walk away for a bit and come back with hopefully a better attitude towards all this. BrainCramp



    [This message has been edited by mac-in-tosh (edited 04 November 2002).]

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Beaufort & Chapel Hill, NC, USA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Well it's done! Hopefully for the best. I've chose the SMC, It even has Mac specific software. http://www.techdepot.com/Product.asp...179448&iid=342
    http://www.smc.com/index.cfm?sec=Pro...rod=257&site=c
    I'll post back when I have news regarding my decision.

    bif I tried to email you regarding specifics on the cable but you have an un-listed email If you would email me so I can get back to you with my info.

    Thanks!
    Ken

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Mobius Strip
    Posts
    13,045

    Default

    Glad you got it settled!

    One of the reasons I don't use Linksys is there seems to be more need for patches to the firmware. I've never had to on the router I use but it doesn't have remote administration enabled. This was on Ars recently and worth repeating:
    quote:

    Posted 11/3/2002 - 2:44PM, by Caesar
    I don't normally point out each and every security hole out there, but considering that Linksys is pretty much numero uno when it comes to home networking gear sales, I wanted to give y'all this heads up:

    The Linksys Group Inc.'s BEFSR41 EtherFast Cable/DSL Router with 4-Port Switch is vulnerable to a remote DoS attack that requires the attacker to do nothing more than access a specific script on the router's remote management interface. The vulnerability affects all of the routers with firmware versions earlier than 1.42.7.

    This only works if you have remote management enabled, but I know a number of people who are using these routers to segregate public machines on a private network, and who do use said features. Updating to the latest firmware solves the problem.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •