Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 36

Thread: 8500 upgrades

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    presently middle georgia (not russia)
    Posts
    283

    Default

    hey guys, Sorry I am of the "unwashed" I bow to your bodacious guruness Ok, heres the deal, I am trying to learn about this stuff. I have an 8500/500 powerlogix G3, 320mb RAM, OS 9. everything else is stock. It was suggested I try a Miles 2 and a Cheetah. Can I Raid the Cheetah and my stock 2GB HD? or would the original 2 GB HD slow things down? I want to be able to use the 2 GB HD if it wont be shooting myself in the foot speed wise. According to the instructions for the G3/500 I should be able to run L2 at 250mhz, but if I go over 200mhz I get freezes. Will the Miles 2 cure this? I have a world of questions, but for now I will hope for some help with these, Thanks Rob

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    7,056

    Default

    Miles2 will not cure your processor problem and you need to get that fixed before Miles2. Possibly slow RAM or 4k refresh RAM? Or something wrong with the G3 card? RAIDing two dissimilar drives is not a good idea. It is highly recommended to RAID two drives such - same manufacturer, exact same model number, and even firmware number of the drive. The last recommendation, firmware number, I have RAIDed dissimilar firmware numbers with no dire consequences and no perceivable speed loss, but the rest should be the same. You can RAID almost any two drives, but how long it would last without problems is a guess. I would not RAID the Cheetah and your 2GB drive. The result would be as above and it would be slower than the Cheetah by itself. k

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    presently middle georgia (not russia)
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Kaye, how would I check my refresh rate? how do I check if something is wrong with the card? thanks Rob

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    1hr N/W of LA LA Land
    Posts
    3,316

    Default

    Rob: I'm just curious about your stock HD in your 8500. Mine had a 1g IBM 5400rpm originally which I replaced w/a 7200rpm MicropolisAV. It made a noticeable differance. Mine is the AV model i.e. RCA & S-video in & out.

    ------------------
    Too bad ignorance isn't painful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    presently middle georgia (not russia)
    Posts
    283

    Default

    M.Brane, to be honest with you I only know what is in there right now, not what came with it, I have owned the machine about 6 months. The HD is a Quantum I thought I saw something that said it ran at 5200 or 5400rpms. It is a 2GB HD, and mine also came with the rca and s video in/out. And your last point........... ignorance is very painful, I can personally attest to it. But pain, my friend is an excellent motivator

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    presently middle georgia (not russia)
    Posts
    283

    Default

    I am highly suspicious of the hard drive, since it wont allow me to do certain things like run conflict catcher, so I am disposed to replacing it. I have spent hours reading other parts of this site, my impression is get the miles 2, with a fast HD (10K Cheetah) and go from there. Much of what I ask about ie. Raid is just because I am curious and want to know the options before making a decision. You cant play to win if you dont know the rules. Back to the RAM, I dont know fast from slow, but what I have in slots 1a, 1b are 32mb sticks that came with it, and in slots 2a,2b are 128mb sticks I put in. Is a 4K refresh rate something I can get around or is it something I must live with in this machine? I feel bad that I dont know more about this than I do, but at least I am trying to learn.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    1hr N/W of LA LA Land
    Posts
    3,316

    Default

    I would wager then that it's the stock drive, as my 7100 also had a Quantum. It was transferred to my Quadra950, but developed bad blocks. Probably got bounced too hard during shipping.

    I see you've posted while I'm typing(hunting & pecking would be more accurate). I doubt your drive would prevent you from running any app. I would suspect a software problem on that issue. Also it is VERY important w/processor upgrade to have good RAM that is of the same speed i.e. all 70ns or 60ns- no mixed sticks. Gurus can direct you to the proper utilities to test it. Takes a while though- it's an overnighter.

    ------------------
    Too bad ignorance isn't painful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    1hr N/W of LA LA Land
    Posts
    3,316

    Default

    I just reread your post. I know what a pain it is to get to the RAM, but maybe you could try pulling your 32m sticks. Put the 128's in A4 & B4. That is assuming the 128's you added are matching. 256m ain't bad.

    ------------------
    Too bad ignorance isn't painful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    wherever I hang my hat
    Posts
    3,575

    Default

    you will want to swap out the daughtercard, I guess. If you can run your backside cache at 200MHz but not at 250MHz, that suggests to me that PowerLogix could be substituting slower, inferior cache chips and then overclocking them. A lot of the time, they actually get away with it. Not always. This could be one of those cases where they actually get caught.

    that said, it could be one or more pieces of memory, too. Considering that you can run at 200MHz, however....that reeks of the first possibility to me.

    one interesting exercise.....if it works, might be to try XLR8's software rather than PowerLogix's. See if you get different results on your backside cache. If not, that helps confirm a hardware problem on the card.

    Pulling the card and posting a high-res scan of the cache chips will help us confirm for you whether PowerLogix is using good fast parts or --shudder-- something else.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    presently middle georgia (not russia)
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Ok, other things in life I have had to trouble shoot, I found that it is best to make one small change at a time. What would you suggest I try first? My uneducated guess would be pull the 128 sticks out, leaving in the pair of 32's and try setting the L2 back at 250. What do you think?
    You mention trying XLR8's software, can I download that and try it?
    Pulling the card and posting a high res scan went straight over my head, I haven't a clue what that means

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    769

    Default

    Hey Md2u,

    Your troubleshooting philosophy is right on. The reason your problem may lie with the CPU upgrade card itself is that the backside cache bus is isolated from the other memory and I/O busses, so problems there shouldn't routinely affect your Cache memory speed. You should be able to run at a ratio of 1:2 or better unless, as Mag suggests, PowerLogix is overclocking inferior cache memory chips on that board to mate with a 500 MHz CPU. The 'high-res scan' he's referring to means somehow reading the tiny individual part numbers on the cache RAM chips and letting him know what that number is. You should also look at your main memory module chips for a number that ends in -6,-06,-60 or -7,-07,-70 to determine if you have 60ns RAM or 70ns RAM. The one factor that may affect the cache memory speed is software, since the settings are controlled by software. So, it is worth trying the best software out there, the XLR8 MACh Speed control panel and extension, which will work with any other manufacturer's G3/G4 CPU upgrade. You can download it from the XLR8 site free.

    Best placement of main memory modules in the 8500: Largest (and/or fastest) matched modules in A4/B4, next in A3/B3,etc. The memory controller looks at the A4/B4 slots first. You can run a mix of 70ns and 60ns, but put the 60ns upfront, and keeping matching modules interleaved is best.

    Regards

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    presently middle georgia (not russia)
    Posts
    283

    Default

    MacMikester, I appreciate you explaining things to me, I guess a look at the G3 card is now in order. Arggh! Let the testes begin!! *testing hehe. Ok this is serious and I will quit bein goofy. Gonna break out the big magnifing glass and take a look at Powerlogix. I wish I had found out about this site before last friday, I might have saved myself some grief.Thanks Rob

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    presently middle georgia (not russia)
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Things in life are how you perceive them, having said that my 8500 has the mother board out right now and I am on a centis 650....My 8500 is blisteringly fast!!!!!hehehe. Down to business, I have pulled the daughter card out and examined it carefully with a guru sized magnifying glass. I have copied down everything that even looked like it might be a number. I pulled and did the same with the memory sticks. With all these numbers I still dont know what I am looking at, but I have numbers. Whats next?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    presently middle georgia (not russia)
    Posts
    283

    Default

    M.Brane, I was just looking at the RAM slots. 4A is the same length as the rest but it is not as tall, not the same color as any of the rest of the RAM slots and does not have the two protrusions that keep you from putting the sticks in the wrong way. Are you sure A4 and B4 are the right places to be putting the RAM sticks in?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    presently middle georgia (not russia)
    Posts
    283

    Default

    On my 3rd pack of smokes today, and listening to gimme shelter.....couldnt stand another minute in front of the Centris 650, Whew my 8500 got fast in a hurry!!!!I put it back together again and here I am. Oh got a tip, when grounding yourself to the plugged in machine to handle static sensative items, dont use a wire with large alligator clips attached to each end and clip one to the machine and one to your body, I still have teeth marks on my butt.
    I hate to do this but I am going to have to list a bunch of numbers and hope you can make sense of them, sorry.
    memory/RAM/32mb
    Germany A 104
    9536 TTT
    HM5 116400A56
    74FCT
    162244ATPV
    L 9534 T
    94V-0
    2001574A
    9533
    KTA-604/32
    REV.A2
    The above came with the 8500 when I bought it a few months back

    memory/RAM/128mb
    SEC Korea
    KM 44V16004BK-6
    UW
    Sdt 74FCT
    163244CPA
    LZ9819M

    Powerlogix G3/500 1mb L2
    Samsung 034
    K7A403600M QC 22
    TVAF03GC Korea
    ---------------------------
    PI5C
    16861B
    9931XJC
    ___________________________
    992
    47
    16E
    ___________________________
    R143HB60
    ___________________________
    3899
    14_3V JED
    ___________________________
    FZ34NS
    1YR9521 (the Y is actually a symbol I dont have Y with line thru middle top covered and point sticking up)
    46 22 25

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    wherever I hang my hat
    Posts
    3,575

    Default

    you can download the XLR8 software from their website or our FTP site.

    i see no point messing around with this stuff. Just swap out your memory, and if that doesn't fix it, swap out the daughtercard.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    presently middle georgia (not russia)
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Without trying to sound too stupid, there are quite a few XlR8 downloads in the FTP section, could you be more specific please, thank you for your indulgence. Rob

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    presently middle georgia (not russia)
    Posts
    283

    Default

    As far as the memory goes, do you mean go buy some new sticks or pull out the 32's and just run the 128's? The 128's are supposed to be matched and 60ns. Also If I just run one pair of RAM sticks, am I correct putting them in slots A1,B1?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    presently middle georgia (not russia)
    Posts
    283

    Default

    I already have some problems running,just trying to eleminate some, but yes trying to make this go faster is one of the issues. If the switch setting file is what he meant, I did happen to get it. I am reluctant to download too much more as I have already dumped files just to have 103mb left on my HD. I will be pulling out the 32 in a few minutes. my current settings are as follows:
    1.on
    2.on
    3.off
    4.on
    5.off
    6.off
    7.on
    8.off
    failing that I will send the daughter card back and try something else

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    769

    Default

    Hey Md2u,

    Magician will have to advise on the chip numbers from the PowerLogix Board. Your 128MB sticks are 60ns, good. They go in slots A4 and B4. What about the 32 MB sticks?

    I told you what to download in my last post: the XLR8 MACh Speed control panel. The speed setting chart is for XLR8 boards and has nothing to do with your PowerLogix board.

    If you can't get 250 MHz or better with the cache using the XLR8 software, return the card.

    Luck

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •