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Thread: Add 2 PCI to J700 ?

  1. #1
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    OK, considering that the J700 has 4 PCI slots to begin with, that should mean the bridge chip is there. SOooooo, it stands to reason that it might be possible that you could add 2 PCI sockets if you were brave enough to solder on the motherboard.

    Can anyone give me the obvious flaw in my logic ?

    Mad Dog

  2. #2
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    You better be sure the DEC bridge is there. I think one Bandit can handle four slots in a pinch.

  3. #3
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    I would wait for k to weigh in. I think he has actually put his hands on a J700.

    I am not a big fan of soldering on working logic boards. Robots do it better than we ever could.

  4. #4
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    amen
    M

  5. #5
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    ...but Mad Scientists do it for FUN !

    Seriously, I would have to examine the board when I get it (I won an auction for one kit), and compare to the pic of a S900.

    Does anyone have a good, detailed pic of a S900 board I can use to compare ?

    If the boards look the same, and the only diff is the lack of 2 sockets, I JUST MIGHT DO IT !!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !

    [and they called ME MAD ?!?!]

    Mad Dog

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    pretty sure there used to be one on the UMAX site somewhere....you may have to delve into their knowledge base thing....I can remember having to do searches, then stumbling across it.

    I'll look around on my machine, too....I used to have one, somewhere. Let me clean things up a little, then I'll do some searches. No telling where that thing is.

  7. #7
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    I don't have a J700 nor a detailed mobo pix, but go here and compare the Pulsar MP with the Pulsar SP pix (which I can only guess is a J700) http://www.newsell.de/shop/Pulsar.html and you can see the two extra PCI slots and the extra CPU slot are there, but there may not be any tracings on the front or back side. Also those PCI slots would have to be connected to the Bridge chip (and then to the Bandit) for them to be useful. k

  8. #8
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    BTW, the Umax links to pix of the S900 mobo are still on the website but the actual pix are gone. I checked their ftp site and they are not there either. k

  9. #9
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    > you may have to delve into their knowledge base

    Thats my next step. Maybe I can find a newsgroup to cover this, too.

    > I'll do some searches

    Thanks. That warms my Mad Scientist heart, you know.

    > but go here and compare the Pulsar MP with the Pulsar SP pix

    Thanks, I got the pix, now I will have to blow them up and take a look. I am guessing the 2 large chips to the right of the slots are PCI controllers ?
    Unfortunately, blown up, they arent that detailed.

    > but there may not be any tracings on the front or back side

    Very true. Although not directly pertinant, I see that the PowerCurve mobo I have has soldered over slots (Int. Fast SCSI), it does appear to have (surface) traces going to the spots.
    My point being, is I would bet that UMAX, in order to have some cost savings, and to differentiate the 2 product lines (J700 and S900) might of just not put in the PCI and extra CPU sockets on the J700. I would _think_ making a whole new mobo layout (if you made the J700 with no traces to the missing slots), this would add extra expense to the design and defeat the purpose of cost savings.

    But then again, I may just be quite raving MAD !

    > Also those PCI slots would have to be connected to the Bridge chip (and then to > the Bandit) for them to be useful

    Yep. But I would wager if the 2 Bandits/Bridges (which is it ?) are there, it just might be possible.

    Anyone for a wager ? : )

    Mad Dog

    PS: I am out of control. HELP. I am an Ebay junkie. My wife gives me the evil eye when I chortle over my newest "patient". One of my guest bedrooms is overflowing with parts. Am I curable ?

  10. #10
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    It's one Bandit controller and one DEC bridge.

  11. #11
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    >It's one Bandit controller and one DEC bridge.

    ...and...uh...is that good ? It looks like the S900 has the same, but I need a close look.
    I have the parts ordered, should get here Friday, and the power supply should arrive early next week. If the camera gets here soon, I can take a high res pic (the Sony cam we ordered is like 3.x megapixels..SWEET)

    Mad Dog

  12. #12
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    Hi to all been a while since I've posted on here. I own and use
    a J700 as my main machine. I was told by a friend who looked it over
    that the S900 and J700 motherboards are exactly the same except
    for the missing 2 pci slots and the second cpu slot.He told me if I could find the slots they could be added.
    The box even has the PCI slots in place(all six) Good luck with your project
    I'm no good at all with a soldiering iron so I'd really be nuts to
    start working on mine!
    Will S

    [This message has been edited by Will S (edited 07 December 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by Will S (edited 07 December 2000).]

  13. #13
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    Actually two Bandits without that DEC bridge is better, but still the S900/J700 are great machines. Having two Bandits allows running two SCSI BusMaster cards such as two Miles2, with matched drives, and striping the whole bunch of drives into a faster RAID than a single Miles2 can run on a vintage Mac. Sustained write with a single Miles2 peaks at about 40MB/s, no matter how many drives, including X15's, you attach in a vintage Mac. With two Miles2, vintage Mac, sustained write goes to about 76MB/s with four X15's.

    Unlike sustained write, sustained read continues to go up as you add more drives to either one Miles2 or two Miles2. I don't know where that limit is on a vintage Mac. I ran out of physical internal hard drive space and money before I found the limit. For two Miles2 (requiring two Bandits of course) and each driving two X15's (total of four), I got sustained reads of about 129MB/s.

    The version of OS you are running has an effect on these benchmarks. k

  14. #14
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    OK, I just had a horrible realization that might doom my idea:

    How does a computer differentiate an empty PCI slot, and a PCI slot that doesnt have a socket installed (like the 2 blank spots on the J700) ?


    Does anyone have a J700 they can run a late version of Apples system profiler (or a utility that tells you how many slots are on the motherboard) on ? Does it see 6 slots or 4 ?

    How about the ROM version between a S900 and J700 ? Can anyone read those out for me ?

    I have a bad feeling that the ROM defines how many PCI slots are present, and even if you add 2 sockets, they might not show up (assuming the ROMs are different between the J700 and S900). I also had a bad feeling that the ROM on the J700/S900 is soldered on.

    What do you think ?

    Mad Dog

  15. #15
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    ASP only shows a slot if it's filled. With a S900, ASP (or PCI Slots Utility) shows "Tree Bandit" for $A1 and $B1. When it gets to $C1, it says" Tree Bandit-PCI Bridge" and then shows no others because they all on the same bridge.

  16. #16
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    MadDog,

    A few days ago, I posted in the SuperMac forum that the Umax FTP had the C-Series and S900 service manuals still avaible (as well as all the original drivers for their machines).

    Did you see that and was it any help to answer any questions?

    ~~~E~~~

  17. #17
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    I missed that. Can you point me to it. I've got a brand new S900 sitting next to me.

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  19. #19
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    >ASP only shows a slot if it's filled.

    Rats. Louie, ASP should show a ROM version. What does your read as ?

    > A few days ago, I posted in the SuperMac forum that the Umax FTP....

    Unfortunately, none of the stuff I got from the Umax/Supermac site led me to a conclusion.

    I hope to get the J700 mobo in today whereupon I will take a good digital pic.

    Can anyone here send me a good pic of the S900 mobo ? My mailserver should be able to handle 2 meg files , or if anyone can place it on a website I can get to.

    thanks,

    Mad Dog

  20. #20
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    You asked what my S900 shows for a ROM. The answer is 8500, which surprises me until you think about it; it only has two+ real PCI slots.

    The PTP thinks it's a 9500.

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