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Thread: Medalist Pro vibrates - is this normal?

  1. #21
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    SR thread SCSI? ATA?

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    Kaye - thanks for the product links. It looks like a few that I am considering are out of stock. And good to hear your daughter has been home safe all this time. I am sure her family was happy for that.

    As far as the termination issue, I will have to open up the case again and see if I can get to the underside of the CD player so I can determine what it has now.

    Greg - I haven't had time to read the forum link you sent, but I will later today. Im not sure it will help to hear another discussion, however. I tend to get overwhelmed the more I read! I have always been the Queen of Research before I make a move to do anything, but am trying to let go of that control to save myself time and energy. I have a hard enough time understanding and working with all the graphic design software I need to know and keep upgraded! I really wish I had one of you guys in my house.

    Seagate is what I have now, but if the Atlas or Quantums are just as good, I will go that route. Whatever I can get that is in stock, I guess. If you have preferences for what you would buy in my situation with my budget, please list them for me. I defer to your expertise... If this is asking too much, just put me in my place.

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    Haste makes waste. Look before you leap. A little knowledge is dangerous. You can never be too rich, thin, or do too much research before buying.

    I like the Atlas 10K IV for many reasons. Suffice to say, I think you will to.

    The article pointed to ATA for large storage and backup; SCSI for fast editing and rendering. You get to know something well by using it, doing it, practice. "Research" without any hands on is like learning to sail a boat or fly a plane without doing either. You can only learn so much, enough to get started.

    Googlegear Atlas 10K IV $193. Their price on Cheetah 10K was $240 while www.hypermicro.com had it for $179. www.granitedigital.com - you'll need their $39 68-pin to 50-pin active terminator adapter, so the Atlas needs to also be on the end of the ribbon cable.

    With any disk drive, let it sit for a day to acclimate. Touch it gently like its an egg. One of the folks from Maxtor/Atlas hangs out on the SR forums which is also great.

    Information on ATTO's UL4S Controller
    quote:
    Ultra320 SCSI performance enables high throughput for servers and high-end workstations

    * One external and one internal channel allow users to attach Ultra320 drives externally and slower legacy devices internally for aggregate throughput of up to 320 MB/sec.
    * Supports up to 30 SCSI bus IDs - 15 each on external and internal channels
    * Supports Low Voltage Differential (LVD) for cabling up to 12.5 meters per bus
    * Compatible with Single-ended SCSI devices, providing cable distances up to 3 meters
    * Supports all five original requirements of Ultra3 SCSI:
    * Double Transition Clocking
    * Domain Validation
    * Quick Arbitration Select
    * Packetization
    * Cyclical Redundancy Checks

    * Additionally, the UL4S supports Ultra320-specific features such as Free-Running Clock, Read/Write Data Streaming, Flow Control, Training Patterns, Pre-compensation, and Asynchronous Information Protection (AIP)

    * Features Advanced Data Streaming (ADS¬ô) Technology for controlled acceleration of data transfers
    * Embedded RISC processor for low-overhead operation
    * Bus Mastering capabilities eliminate CPU processing time as a bottleneck
    * Tagged Command Queuing allows multiple commands to be processed in any order
    * Disconnect/Reconnect eliminates wait time between transfers
    * Backward compatible with PCI-based systems, preserving investment in legacy systems
    * 133 MHz PCI-X provides up to 1 GB/second data transfers, allowing full Ultra320 performance
    * Fully backward compatible with 66 MHz and 33 MHz PCI specifications
    * Fully compatible with 64-bit and 32-bit PCI busses
    * Supports PCI hot swap specifications for high-end servers



    [This message has been edited by Gregory (edited 21 April 2003).]

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    I hear you, Greg. I know I can never learn as much as you know by just reading. I have learned so much more about my Mac in the last two years by working on it, and I owe my courage to the wonderful people on this forum, who walked me thru everything and told me I could do it. I never used to do disk maintenance, didn't even want to open the case! This forum changed all that forever. I wish I had the time to do what you guys do, but I don't. I spent half of the day today learning how to work Portfolio Image Browser.

    So, I am indepted to you for knowing where to point me. I am a bit confused by the link to the UL4S Controller. Im assuming this card would replace the Bluenote? Is it going to make the new drive run faster, better? Is it something else I can take with me to a new computer? Will it need a different ribbon cable than the 50pin one I have with the Bluenote? All of this starts to add up in $$.

    Another thing I thought of today - is the Atlas 10K or others like it fatter than my slim 1" Seagate? I will have to switch positions if it is. I won't need a cooling fan will I?

    So many questions, so little time. And I've wasted so much already. I bought that Medalist Pro after I made a mistake and bought one that was too hot to run in my machine, then let it sit for months before I tested it. Im batting 0 for 2. Hopefully the third time is the charm.

    Have a great day, and get back to me when you can. I can always order the drive and cable right away and think about the PCI card.

    Becky

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    The UL4S is likely what you would be looking at later when you get a new system, not right now. The UL4S/D replace the UL3S/D.

    As for the height of these LVD drives, they are what is called 1/3 height or 1" form factor.

    Then again, no one knows what tomorrow will bring - let alone what Apple will have.

    : )

    [This message has been edited by Gregory (edited 22 April 2003).]

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    Order placed. Will yell for help if I need it.

    Thanks Greg and Kaye!

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    Kaye - I hope you're browsing this topic. Or Greg, or anyone that has an interest in making sure I don't screw this up!

    By reading my original manual for the 7600, I found out that the hard drive was on the END of the chain ID 0 and terminated. The CD was in the middle ID 3, which mean it is not terminated, right? Now, why Louie told me to put it on the END of the Bluenote cable, Im not sure, since he did say there was no way to terminate it. I think I also know why whenever I have tried lately to boot from a CD like the software disk, or Norton it has come up with a flashing question mark icon. I have the Seagate HD closest to the BN and terminated, the CD is the next at the end. Could this be why the CD is not being recognized as a startup disk, since the cable is terminated before it? Other than that, everything seems to work fine.

    Secondly, on my new setup when I get the new hard drive with the active terminator adapter, should I put it on the end of the Bluenote cable, with the CD in the middle and the Seagate in the middle with termination off? I could leave the Seagate at the end, but it would have to be terminated, and the Atlas wouldn't need the terminator I ordered for it. Or can this be de-activated if it is better to put it closest to the BN?

    I am trying to visualize how I will hook these components together before I actually have to do the install, so I can draw up a diagram to follow.

    Becky

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    I assume you've got some spare terminators? CDs have larger jumpers. Maybe when you moved the other drive to the BN, you moved the CD there also, but it should NOT be on the end unless it has a jumper for termination. And it should be set to ID#3.

    It could be hard to get a cable to reach the CD drive and the others. And the ONLY way to do that was make the CD LAST. Right? Only reason I can see for even having the CD on the BlueNote. We need to get you a terminator.

    By putting the CD on its own, and not on the BlueNote, you can make its ID anything, and use the existing jumpers to set it to ID#3 to something else, so you can put one of the jumpers where it says "TERM" (term power or something, and I can't see what it says on yours from here : )

    The new drive and adapter will be easier than what you've been through. But you want the Atlas and terminator converter on the end of the chain on the BlueNote, along with your other existing drive.

    Native SCSI bus with only the CD drive, with term power jumpered, ID can be 0, 1, 2 so we can borrow one of the jumpers.

    Blue Note: Atlas drive can be ID 0 (no jumper) or ID 1 (whatever your existing hdd is not). And the Atlas drive on the end of the chain. And on top probably. Take a look at the existing hdd and see if it has any jumpers on it, whether for ID and/or for termination.

    The Granite converter is a "smart" active terminator and we want it to supply termination, so no other device on the chain will have a termination jumper.

    Blue Note :: existing SCSI drive :: Atlas 10K iV

    Native SCSI bus:: CDROM w/ term jumper

    Two ribbon cables, two chains, two "buses."

    You'll want to use Drive Setup 2.07 and nothing older. It's part of Apple's 9.2.1 updater. If you have trouble finding it let us know. What were you planning on using to initialize the drive once you got it? - And do leave the drive in its static bag over-night, even though it isn't winter, it could be subjected to freezing temperatures if it went FedEx air frieght.

    Might want to print this out when it comes time.

    - G.

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    Greg - thanks so much for that very thourough explanation of what I should do. I remember Louie saying I couldn't leave the CD on its own because it couldn't be terminated. Now you are saying that it CAN be terminated? I am glad to hear that, because I was really concerned about getting the ribbon to reach all the components if I had to put it in the middle!

    I have saved and printed your instructions. Now I have to get in there and look at the CD to see what kind of terminator I need. I don't have a lot of extra stuff - I know I have a few old SCSI terminators for an old scanner, but not sure if its the right size. I will do a search of what I've got.

    Do you agree that the reason my system is not recognizing a CD with a system folder is because it is AFTER the terminated Seagate drive? I just had a startup problem and had to boot from another disk, but I couldn't do it with Norton or the Apple software disk. I've never had that happen before, and it baffled me at the time, but thank God I had the Disk Warrior Zip boot disk.

    Ok, I think I can do this. You're a great help, Greg!

  10. #30
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    I've always been under the impression that Apple SCSI CD-ROMs do not have termination, and that term power is not the same. Therefore a stock Apple SCSI CD-ROM should not be on the end of a cable.

    I've also had SCSI buses that were setup wrong that seemed to work fine.

    Notice I said seemed.

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    Things are getting more complicated (I promise Im not trying to make it this way!) Anyway, here's the latest:

    I removed the stock CD-ROM and took some pictures of the label and the connectors on the end. See if you can figure out if I can terminate it from this:



    After reading what M. Brane said, I did a search for articles on CD termination and several people on these forums agreed with him and Louie, that old Apple CDs could not be terminated. Even Magician said that. Also, that Termination Power is not the same as Termination. I see on the end there is a label that says "Termination Power". That must be where you set it to Power From the Bus or To the Bus (I've always heard it should be from the bus).

    Assuming this is true, and I can't leave the CD alone on the bus, I did a test to see if my cable would reach from the Bluenote to the Seagate, THEN to the CD, and have enough left over to reach the new drive. It did, not easily, though. That would put it in the middle of the chain, and would solve the non-termination issue, right?

    One possible catch to this solution - I still have the problem of the CD not recognizing the system folder on the Apple 9.0 CD. when I try to start up from the CD. A flashing ? icon comes up. Since my original theory that it wasn't recognizing it because it was on the end of the chain, and the Seagate was terminated before it, and now it's on the chain BEFORE the Seagate, Im thinking maybe it doesn't recognize it because it is not on the internal bus? If that is the case, Im back to having to keep it on that bus, with no way to terminate it. Back to Square One.

    The only other option I can think of is to add a new CD-RW drive that can be terminated. Of course, that's more $$ and probably other issues to deal with.

    Gregory - you said:

    quote:
    You'll want to use Drive Setup 2.07 and nothing older. It's part of Apple's 9.2.1 updater. If you have trouble finding it let us know. What were you planning on using to initialize the drive once you got it?


    I've got DS 1.9.2. Im only up to 9.0.4, although I do have the 9.1 update which I put in and then had to take out because I was having some problems. Can I get the newer version on Apple's website, or on the Gurus ftp site?

    I might have to start a new thread for this one. We've gone WAY beyond the Medalist Pro Vibrates discussion.

    I'm still in a positive frame of mind...and ready to do the work. The 7600's been a good workhorse for 6 years now. I just want to squeeze another year or so out of it.

  12. #32
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    Yeah, that's an Apple CD allright. I think the jumpers for parity & term power on those disable those functions. I remember removing the jumpers once and having all kinds of voodoo. Put 'em back and it was fine.

    When you try to boot from the CD, how are you doing it? Through Startup Disk, or with the "C" key on boot?

    I use command+option+shift+delete+3 to boot from my Plextor (ID#3 on the stock bus). Works like a charm, and good finger stretching excercise!

    Maybe another solution would be to get another CD. SCSI CD's have come way down in price. I bought my Ultraplex 40 used from a forum member, and it's been flawless. Or maybe get a 50pin terminator and put it back on the stock bus. Plenty fast for a CD.


    [This message has been edited by M.Brane (edited 24 April 2003).]

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    If push comes to shove, I've got a couple old extra CDs. The one that was working fine by itself in 7300, Apple also, is 12x, 1997, and no matter what anyone says, the truth is in the pudding? it has a jumper on TERM POWER, and works. So I'd say, Try it.

    DS 2.07 is part of 9.2.1 updater I think. TombViewer to extract. Got DSL so you can snag a large updater if you don't have it? or use to be posted. There is always ATTO's ETP 2.82 but I much prefer Apple's. The old version you have is, I think, too old. Anyone running 9.x should have 2.0x at the least.

    I prefer a thread to follow all the twists and turns. A thread for each little side issue? for each question? the forum just puts new posts on top, no need to search or jump to the end makes it easy. sort of an "audit trail" of what's been tried and suggested. it's all there.

    - G.

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    Drive Setup 2.0.7 is on the ftp site. Inside the apple_stuff folder there is a drive_setup_stuff folder. It is in that folder. k

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    M. Brane - I used your "command+option+shift+delete+3 key stroke to restart from the Apple CD, and while I was able to finally get all the keys down at once (nearly impossible combination!), it still doesn't work - flashing ? icon comes up. The only way I am able to boot to a CD is to select it in the startup disk. Which does me no good if Im frozen and can't select it.

    Greg - ok, Im going to try putting the CD back on the internal bus alone. I am a bit confused, though, on how I should set it up for termination. Can you see from my pic which jumpers are enabled and if I need to change anything? You said you did it on a 7300 and it worked. Also, M.Brane mentioned putting a 50 pin terminator on it, and I think you mentioned this earlier also. Where in the world would I put it? Is there a connector Im missing? I don't see any other places on the CD. Or, do you mean to put a terminator AFTER the CD, where the old drive was hooked up? And if this is an option, why hasn't this been mentioned before by all those that said you couldn't terminate the Apple CD?

    It seems I'm going around in circles on this issue!

    Please everyone, hang in there with me. :-)

  16. #36
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    FRom what I see, there is a jumper on Term Power, but there is also one on Parity. Remove the Partity jumper and see how that works.

    - G.

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    Rebecca,

    You should not need to change the jumpers from there original positions as long as you add termination in this scenario.

    If you put the CD on the original internal SCSI bus by itself you will need some sort of termination. Check here, TMC. Click on 'Internal 50' & two choices come up.

    The easiest one to use would be the 'Internal 50 pin' '50 Male Active' terminator which you could just hook to the last connector on the ribbon cable leaving a connector in the middle of the cable for your CD drive. Any device you put in-between would not need to be terminated.

    The 'Internal 50 pin male-female' '50 Male-Female Pass-thru Active' terminator would connect to the SCSI connector on the last drive of the chain. In this case your CD drive. Any connector on the ribbon cable can be used as long as the terminator is on the last drive of the chain.

    I believe Term power should be supplied by the SCSI bus & you need Active termination as this is at least a SCSI-2 device. Can somebody else help with this?

    A Yahoo search of SCSI Terminator came up with a lot of hits.

    Good luck.....Paul

    [This message has been edited by paullt (edited 25 April 2003).]

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    quote:
    M. Brane - I used your "command+option+shift+delete+3 key stroke to restart from the Apple CD, and while I was able to finally get all the keys down at once (nearly impossible combination!), it still doesn't work -flashing ? icon comes up. The only way I am able to boot to a CD is to select it in the startup disk. Which does me no good if Im frozen and can't select it.


    How long are you holding the keys down? Don't release 'em as soon as the flashing ? comes up. Give it at least 10-15sec before you give up. Sometimes it takes a bit before it will find the system and boot.

    I know that key sequence is pretty tough at first, but after a few times it's not so bad. For a guitarist anyway.

    I use my index, middle & ring on the command+option+shift on the left, and index & pinky on delete+3 on the right.


    [This message has been edited by M.Brane (edited 26 April 2003).]

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    M. Brane -- index & pinky on delete+3 ?? You've GOT to be kidding? You mean your Thumb and pinky, right? My index & pinky stretch MAYBE to the 6! I barely made it with my thumb to the 3!

    Anyway, this combo didn't work for me just awhile ago. I didn't hold on for 20-30 secs, though. It seems to only work if I can pull RESTART from the menu. I am tired right now and want to wait to tackle anymore till tomorrow. I've had all sorts of problems all thru the day - quitting apps, messages saying there are problems on my hard drive and I may have lost data (DW and NDD found nothing), address error on s/u, on and on. I'm afraid putting that CD ahead of the Seagate is causing the problems. Or maybe it was working the cable around a bit. Anyway, tomorrow Im going to either put the CD back where it was or try it on the internal bus alone. I don't know if I have a terminator of either kind that Paul suggested, but it sounds promising. I will take a look at the links tomorrow also. Thanks Paul for chiming in!

    Maybe this machine is breathing it's last breath afterall.

    Spending the evening tomorrow with my favorite neice and nephew will make all these troubles melt away. I'm looking forward to it...



    [This message has been edited by RebeccaKW (edited 26 April 2003).]

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    Rebecca,

    I have the same CD you have with all the same jumper settings in my 8500/180. Mfgr. date was October though. Hence the difference in Revision #.

    ID=3
    CD-ROM drive
    Driver version: 1.4.7
    Mac OS partitions: 0
    Removable media: Yes
    Vendor: MATSHITA
    Revision number: 8.0h
    Product ID: CD-ROM CR-8008
    Serial number: Not available

    I still think all you need to do is terminate the end of the ribbon cable as long as there is not a terminated HD there & it will work as if a terminated HD was there.

    I don't know how much room is at the back of the CD so the Pass-thru terminator may not be an option. I certainly wouldn't have room in my 8500.

    Paul

    [This message has been edited by paullt (edited 26 April 2003).]

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