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Thread: Medalist Pro vibrates - is this normal?

  1. #41
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    Paul - I checked out that link you sent me - this one looks very promising to put on the end of the internal bus cable: http://www.tmcscsi.com/internalTerminators.shtml

    If this is a good fix, why hasn't anyone else suggested it? Or is this a new device? I don't want to order it unless I hear a few others comments on it. I do not want to have to eat the shipping costs and re-stocking charges if it isn't what I need.

    Right now I am back to where I started: the CD and original 1.4 GB drive on the internal bus and the Seagate on the Bluenote by itself. I was having so many problems that I figured I'd better work on sorting them out before installing anything new.

    Im not giving up.



    [This message has been edited by RebeccaKW (edited 26 April 2003).]

  2. #42
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    This is getting nutty.

    Yes, I have large hands.

    I'm beginning to suspect that maybe you have a bad cable. I just about drove myself crazy with my old Quadra 950 with similar problems. Well, not exactly. It would boot fine from the floppy or an external CD but not the internal bus. I got so frustrated with it that I evetually just gave up and got another Mac (a IIci!) Pulled it out a while back, tried a different cable, and no problem. Live and learn.

    Just out of curiousity, does it (your CD) work OK on the internal bus? How about your original HDD? Does it bench better on the Bluenote? Maybe you should just leave the original drives on the internal and the 'Cuda on the Bluenote by itself.

  3. #43
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    I really don't know why it would not have "Parity" on my CD but it is jumpered on both of yours.

    Having a jumper on "Term Power" works for me, but it seems like might want to enable if your CD isn't letting you... if it turns out not to be the cable.

    I think over time we all accumulate "junk" that we bought, that isn't worth returning, or the extra cable to test with. I even bought a SCSI cable tester and adapter - so I can insure if the cable is "talking" on every strand of wire properly.

    Ever buy a set of tools? probably has stuff you have no need for? or that huge box and trays of tools a car mechanic has?

    Having a good terminator around is great. At one time an active terminator cost $99 when they first showed up (early 90's I think, from APS), later price dropped in half (like RAM prices), but when working with scanners and hdd's and such, invaluable. When working with LVD, very critical piece of equipment, which is why the $39 Granite unit is actually a good buy.

    Speaking of which, head over to www.xlr8yourmac.com and there is a link to Apple/ATTO OEM UL3D's for $79 from the site sponser OWC. Great product, good investment. Full Ultra160 LVD controller. Requires... NewWorld? Works in some Vintage systems? You'd pay $349 or so new retail, and they are listed as being "new" units (pulls most likely).

    - G.

  4. #44
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    Rebecca,

    Another thing I just noticed. I setup the jumpers for the 36GB Barracuda the same as the 2GB Hawk it replaced in my 8500 as they both have identical configuration options. Check the diagram on page 2 of the ST 336918N 36GB Barracuda Install Guide. I have jumpers installed for 'Terminator Enable', 'Term. Power from Drive', & 'Term. Power to SCSI Bus'. This was how the Hawk 2GB was setup from Apple as my 8500 was stock except for an extra 64MB Dimm I had installed when I bought it new. Check your old HD and see if these same options are enabled. It could explain a lot. With the HD removed from the original SCSI bus you not only don't have Termination you do not have Term. Power to the bus as it appears that the original HD provided both. I would try contacting Panasonic Computer Support for a description of the Jumper configurations for the CR-506 CD-ROM. I'm going to try emailing to the link they supply to see what I can come up with. Would be nice to know if I do any swapping in the future. I did an extensive search of their web site and all I could find was the jumper configurations for a SCSI CD-R drive. Notice the 'Parity' jumper pins are on the right of the SCSI ID rows instead of on the left as on the CR-506 we have. Also no Termination option labeled on the back of the CR-506, only Term Power is labeled & we don't currently know what the jumpered configuration means.

    Paul

  5. #45
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    I am still waiting for my hard drive from Googlegear. They miss-shipped it, and had to re-ship, so it will be another few days. In the meantime, I've ironed out my problems, I think.

    I checked all my connections and smoothed out the SCSI ribbon cable, and have been running it maxed out (10 apps, multiple windows, PS & printing together, internet, etc.) and it has NOT CRASHED ONCE! It is so much more responsive than when I had the CD on the Bluenote chain. I hadn't even noticed it before. I think it was effecting performance, notwithstanding the original ATTO test.

    Greg - I am a bit confused about the whole parity issue, not knowing what it really does. I did some research and there seems to be confusion among many as to when and why to enable parity. I see in mine it is enabled, but I also read that it usually is not in older Apple machines. I can still do the test that you suggested and see if it works or not. If it doesn't, then my only other viable option is to try the active terminator that Paul suggested. Or get another CD that can terminate.

    I am not opposed to spending money to see if something will work - of course I've got lots of 'stuff' that I bought and never used. But I like to buy knowing all the facts that I can. I just went thru a bad experience with Epson where 4 different tech reps told me 4 different solutions to a RIP printing problem, and I ended up spending at least $75 more than I needed to before getting the 'right' answer. So, I'd like to avoid it if I can.

    Paul - you have brought up some interesting links and facts about this old CD-R. I sent an e-mail to the Panasonic tech support and asked about the jumper settings and termination. Maybe I'll get an answer, maybe not. But it's nice that you took the initiative to delve into this. I appreciate it.

    I also decided that I need to trust my own judgement more, and be willing to 'jump in' like you guys do and just try different things. In the end, I have to be the one who makes it work. And it appears that there are never cut-and-dried answers when it comes to computers. If I've learned nothing else from this and other forums, it's that we all learn from each other.

    I'll report back if I come up with the 'answer' for my machine. And thanks everyone for your help. If anyone has anything else to add, please do. Im a sponge.

    Rebecca

  6. #46
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    What's with Googlegear anyway? I placed an order, they ran out (to be expected, it was a hot popular item and they were the first known to have it in stock). Then, I thought kaye had a problem with his order? and now this?

    HyperMicro is free shipping if you mention StorageReview, though I never do, I don't know if that applies to FedEx next day or 2 day shipments.

    You can pick up a Cheetah 10K.6 36GB latest model for $175 from www.hypermicro.com - which is a fabulous price. Use to be a fabulous price for any good drive, even 18GB or 9GB.

  7. #47
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    I just finished my installation of the Maxtor 10K IV hard drive with active terminator, left the CD on the internal bus, and added another terminator on the end of that cable. Everything started up just fine, and appears ok.

    However, the Drive Setup (2.0.3) software I have does not support this drive, so I am unable to initialize it. I got it from my 9.1 update, but that is the latest update that I have. I tried to access version 2.0.7 a few weeks ago from the Gurus ftp site but all that was there was a document. I tried again to access it now, but am unable to sign in. It used to come up with an automatic "Anonymous" user name and (I presume) a password.

    Can someone please help me get the correct hard drive setup version for this drive?

    Thanks!

    Rebecca

  8. #48
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    Sure. No problem. Drive Setup 2.07 or Jaguar is what you need for that drive definitely. I guess you don't have 9.2.1 or later on CD? OS X doesn't but 10.1 came with Mac OS 9.2.1 (and 10.0 came with 9.1, and both are still available or if you own Jaguar you can order 9.x for $20 from Apple).

    ATTO would work also but I'd avoid that.

    [This message was edited by Gregory on Sat May 17, 2003 PT at 16:18.]

  9. #49
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    Gregory - thanks for sending me Drive Setup 2.0.7. Unfortunately, it doesn't support this drive either. I am not running anything above 9.1 because the 7600 doesn't support it, and I would have to use Xpostfacto (I think) to use X on this machine. So, I have avoided it, and really don't want to do it now.

    I have the ATTO Express Pro-Tools 2.5, and I just checked it, and it will work to initialize. Why do you recommend not using it? Looks like it might be my only choice without having to buy another app (like HDSTs).

  10. #50
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    Rebecca,

    Not sure why Drive Setup (2.07) won't allow you to initialize the drive. It should, I don't think DS cares that you are running 9.1. I agree that the best OS to use is 9.1. If you need drivers for an ATI card, or USB support, you can do that without going to 9.2.2.

    XPF didn't work well for me on 7300 but Sonnet X-Installer ($29) did.

    My experience with ATTO EPT is that it works, is not as well tuned to the Mac and the read/write benchmarks were lower than Drive Setup. It uses a slightly unique driver partitioning structure that I felt better avoiding also. If you do go with ATTO, head to www.attotech.com/software and then ATTO ExpressPCI Host Adapter Utilities and download ExpressTools Pro 2.82.

    Usually, I would think the reason DS won't would be more about the SCSI chain, termination etc.

    My question is, does the drive show up in Drive Setup? but doesn't say it can be initialized or "not supported?"

    If so, I would go ahead and,

    #1 - Erase the drive in ATTO
    #2 - Launch Drive Setup and see if it will
    #3 - go with the one that works

    The other choice is 3rd party. IntechUSA Harddisk SpeedTools 3.5.

    Even when I think I know what to expect, I don't! There is no end to surprises. It is impossible to predict. But it is possible to take it one step at a time and deal with what comes next.

    Let's hope that works. Do you have Jaguar CD? You could "fake it" and boot from that and use Disk Utility to partition the drive also.



    [This message was edited by Gregory on Sun May 18, 2003 PT at 14:07.]

  11. #51
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    I have good news to report - just keeping my fingers crossed that things continue to go well.

    First, to answer your questions:

    Yes, the Maxtor drive was showing up as drive "not supported" in Drive Setup menu. I did as you suggested and initialized it with ATTO (newsest version - thanks for the link!), then tried to re-initialize with DS - no luck, still not supported. So, I just took the plunge and installed OS 9.1 on the drive. Little by little I've been testing and re-installing other apps. I want it to mirror my main drive so I can use both interchangeably if I need to. Since it is so much bigger, I will use it to store stuff I've now got on Zips.

    One thing I noticed with XPPTs - I don't see an option to partition the drive like in DS. I would like to keep the OS separate if there is a way to do this. I guess reading the manual would be a good first avenue to take.

    I also did the ATTO benchmark tests, and both the Seagate and Atlas are peaking at an average 18.75 (Read) and 19.00 (Write). I think that's pretty darn good!

    Another point: The reason I don't move past 9.1 and on to Jaguar because as a graphic designer working in Quark - it has not yet released an OSX version. It's a real bone of contention. Once they do, I will be all over X, and Im anxious to do it.

    Gregory - at this point in the history of the forums you are the most constant and comforting presence that we all count on and are very appreciative of the time and talents you share with all of us. I know it may not always be this way (life has a habit of changing just as we start counting on things), but for now it is nice to know there is someone here we can count on to be there. Just don't get yourself burned out on us! Pace yourself...please.

    Rebecca

  12. #52
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    Rebecca,

    Hi! It's been awhile! Anyway, you're right, Apple Drive Setup doesn't support Maxtor drives directly. You could hack it with Resedit to make it recognize it, but there's an easier way.

    I assume from your post that you do have the OS X 10.2 Installer CD. If so, boot the CD (No, you don't need to install at this time). Now, select Disk Utility from the menu (I'm not sure whice one... It's up there though.). This will let you initialize the Maxtor with Apple's drivers. Be sure to check the box to enable booting in OS 9 (loads the OS 9 driver). When you boot back into 9, the drive should be all set for you.

    I hope this helps.

    Tony

    I Refuse To Have A Battle Of Wits With An Unarmed Person!

  13. #53
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    I know Drive Setup 2.04 and earlier may not support all drives, and beware of OEM models (frequently found on OWC and Newegg.com, besides their prices aren't that great anyway).

    I have initialized a number of Maxtor drives with Apple's Drive Setup, always the latest version at the time (Atlas 10K II, 10K III, as well as 10K IV) so I am assuming that when it sees the 10K drive on the Blue Note with an adapter, that is causing it trouble. On 2940U2Bs and ATTO PSCd as well as UL3S there never was any problem.

    If you erased the drive in ATTO, then fired up DS and still "unsupported" I give up. it should. And Googlegear doesn't sell OEM, those are retail.

    To partition in EPT is different, there never is anything intuitive about any program the first time or the last, just habit. If you want to delete the volume you have and create two or three, now that you know it works, can do that.

    Whatever you do, run Disk Warrior on the drive volumes even before you get started. Then, I like to load up the drive and give it a good workout.

    The numbers you get are the best possible in that setup. It should 'feel' better than the numbers suggest. Outside ATA or the 7.2k Cuda, the quietest SCSI drive I've ever not heard.

    Good luck, and thanks for the kind words.

    - G.

    [This message was edited by Gregory on Mon May 19, 2003 PT at 9:03.]

  14. #54
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    Tony - welcome back! You were once a fixture like Greg - nice to see you here again.

    No, I don't have any OS X software. I would have to pirate it to get a newer DS. Im not going to buy it just yet. Waiting for my new computer later in the year.

    Greg - well, I guess before I get too far with installing on this drive I'd better go back and see if I can figure out how to partition it with XPT.

    It's actually scary how much Im learning from all you guys - Im actually starting to feel like a computer geek!

    Rebecca

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    I just tried Drive Setup on my system and it didn't like initialize the Atlas. I feel responsible getting you to this point and buying the drive.

    There's one more thing to try if you don't figure out ATTO's utility, but basically, you just delete the volume, then create a new volume of less than the full 36GB. No need to install driver again.

    90% of the time, I used SoftRAID on all my SCSI drives and it was only with OS X that I had to stop using it. I can't wait to have that available as an option again.

    But hey, now you know you can swim in deeper water!

    - G.

  16. #56
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    Rebecca,

    Any change or news?

    Gregory

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    Hey Greg - don't feel bad about giving me wrong info. No one can know everything! And no one else chimed in their concerns either. Im not at all upset. Im on drugs so I don't get upset about much - ha!

    I did as you suggested - wiped the drive clean, did a reformat, and found out how to do multiple volumes - really not hard at all.

    However, now I have a problem that Disk Warrior is reporting. Not sure if it's just a system glitch or it really means anything. What happens is: when I go to rebuild the directory on the new drive (did this just after installing 9.1), an error warning comes up that says "The disk "x" could not be shown on the desktop. The preview will be unavailable." Next, a little yellow window shows up that says "There is a problem with the disk "x". Some information may have been lost. Check any recently-used files for data loss, and use a disk-repair program on the disk." I had this happen once while NOT running DW, on my main drive, but could find nothing wrong. I also ran NDD on the Atlas and it found nothing wrong (other than the usual "bundle bit is off" error).

    I just tried booting from my other start up partition on my main drive (with DW installed to it), and ran it again. Same problem. Any suggestions?

    I don't want to do any more installing till I figure this DW thing out. If I can't get any answers, I will just go ahead and install everything so I have a completely working drive and then I can wipe my Seagate and reformat with a clean install. That could solve some of my intermittant problems (like freezes on startup, or this incessant BEEP that happens right after I start from a hard restart (Control-Cmd-Pwr).)

    Otherwise, things are just peachy! And thanks for checking in...

    Rebecca

    [This message was edited by RebeccaKW on Tue May 20, 2003 PT at 20:45.]

  18. #58
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    If the Finder complains about the disk; if Disk Warrior complains about the disk; there is a communication issue that is probably hardware. SCSI jumpers, termination, and cable, even the driver (ATTO). I've had such problems crop up myself.

    I don't like the sound of your drive and not sure why, but whenever ATTO ETP says there is a bus error, it is usually not the drive per se but the cable or terminator or a jumper that is wrong.

    On 68-pin drive cables, there are small 'teeth' that can get bent but not usually with 50-pin cables. The Granite adapter does make for a tight fit in close quarters though.

    All you did was reformat the drive and partition it. Anything else?

    You're using a Miles Blue Note, so have you run any Initio SCSI utility?

    [This message was edited by Gregory on Wed May 21, 2003 PT at 7:21.]

  19. #59
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    quote:
    All you did was reformat the drive and partition it. Anything else?

    Not that I can think of, except running the ATTO tests and NDD after the problem showed. Come to think of it, Im not sure if the first time I ran DW if it did this or not.

    quote:
    You're using a Miles Blue Note, so have you run any Initio SCSI utility?

    The only Initio utility I have is Smart SCSI (just got the newest version from the website site thinking that might be the problem, but it wasn't). All I can see to do with it is update the firmware. Is there something else it can do, or is there another utility you are refering to?

    As far as a hardware problem, you're right that everything was a tight fit, especially getting the cable to bend without folding. I will recheck that and perhaps move the Atlas to a connection farther down the line and see if I can't make the cable a bit smoother. I will recheck adaptor also. What about resetting the Cuda switch? I didn't do that. Or zapping pram?

    I am not discouraged - not yet anyway.

  20. #60
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    Okay,

    Checked some drives formatted with ATTO and know what? get the same types of error messages you get. I first reported this problem back in... September 2001 (busy month and everyone 'distracted') and then later regarding another ATTO software program "ExpressStripe."

    Nasty. And weird. I've got ATTO extension in the system folder so drives mount properly. I've got Disk Warrior extension installed also. This is one of the reasons there is problem still with Disk Warrior 3, OS X, and ATTO. Yikes!

    My best recommendation: OS X 10.2 Disk Utility or SoftRAID. Another choice is Harddisk SpeedTools 3.5. Afterall, you want and need to be able to run Disk Warrior. (We aren't big fans or supporters of Norton except in an emergency. Any program that can mess up a drive, that's one of 'em. Any program that defrags a drive (SpeedDisk, Drive10) can also raise havoc.).

    So your problem is not really hardware at all, just the driver. And Drive Setup 2.07 doesn't like this Maxtor, but works with all the prior models like the 10K III.

    Want to trade your drive for a pair of 18GB Atlas 10K III's?

    - G.

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