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Thread: miles2 in G4?

  1. #1
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    Well, with the G4/933 on the way I am wondering about my Miles2 card. I went to your SCSI page to check out the prices on a new LVD drive to go with the 9gig I now have on the Miles2 and I noticed that you do not reccomend using that card in the New World Macs. Is this still the case?

    Thanks, Greg

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    Greg,

    I assume you've been watching the threads also and that Initio is working on OS X Miles2 drivers. Any new Cheetah (10K or faster) would be held back on Ultra2, especially in your G4. Seagate has said to expect updated drives this summer (August guys?) and ATTO has Ultra320 UL4S/D in the wings.

    If you were buying a SCSI card, yes, recommend an ATTO - but can you use your Miles2 even if only to transfer files etc? Maybe someone can confirm the state of support. I'd leave the Miles2 with your existing rig if possible.

    Gregory

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    Thanks for the reply, Gregory.
    The Atto card is a little pricey, especially when I have a Miles2 that is doing the job in my old Mac (7300). I know, I know, quality and performance costs money but is there a SCSI2 solution out there for the new G4's that is OSX ready? (this is probably asking a lot, I realize.)

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    Greg,

    The Miles2 will work in your G4/933. I've tried 2x Miles2 in my G4-800DP and they work, but, as Gregory says, not as fast as an ATTO card, particularly with very fast drives or a striped RAID. The Miles2 is faster in vintage Macs, the ATTO faster in New World Macs, with U160 or U320 drives. I've tried both cards, Miles2 and ATTO UL3D, in both types of machines, my G4 and my PTP.

    When I tried the Miles2 cards in the G4 back when Initio first posted OSX firmware, it only worked in OSX. I had to flash the firmware back to 1.05 then 1.06b to work in OS9. Now I don't know since there have been several OSX firmware updates and the 2x Miles2 are back in my PTP with OS9. I have an email into Initio asking if the latest OSX firmware works for both OS's. Will post when I get an answer. k

  5. #5
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    Kaye,
    Thanks. I am going to give it a try. The drive I currently have is not a huge performer. (Atlas 10k LVD 9gig) Of course, now I have carefully read the SCSI pages and really want one of those Seagate drives with the ATTO card. SCSI160 sounds pretty fabulous.

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    Answer from initio Bob:

    I am testing new versions of the firmware now. I appears that on some
    systems the computer is not happy with the OS 9/X support. I hope to
    post new versions at the end of this week, that should resolve most of
    these issues as well as be ready for the next big OS X release.

    k

  7. #7
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    Kaye,
    Well that sounds promising. The 933 should hit my front door Wednesday or Thursday, so I will give it a try. (might be up all night! happily!)

    Thanks for looking in to it, I appreciate it.

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    The 933 arrived yesterday and all I can say is WOW!

    I put the Miles2 in and sure enough OSX does not recognize it. It works a champ in OS9, however.
    Kaye, any word from Initio Bob and that update? I checked their site and they still have the old firmware update from 12/01. Before I use that I figured I would check in about the update.

    Thanks, Greg

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    Greg,

    No but someone posted in another thread that the existing latest firmware updater works just fine in both 9 and X. k

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    BTW, if you do it, boot into OS9, and with the latest Initio download (12/3/01?) open the Miles2 folder and launch Miles_2_Smart_SCSI_9 1.04 and do the firmware update only from OS9. You cannot do it from X. Miles_2_Smart_SCSI_X 1.00.app is used within X for changing anything listed there (config changes) EXCEPT for this firmware update. Make sense? k

  11. #11
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    Sounds easy enough. I will give it a shot tonight. I hope it works as I have a 18gig Cheetah (from the Gurus) on the way to me to pop into the /933. If the Miles2 doesn't behave I guess I can always sell the old 7300 (replaced by the G4, I swear I have whiplash) with the Miles2 and the Atlas 10k 9gig that was in it and buy the Atto card.

    Thanks for the info Kaye.

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    Greg,

    I thought you just satisfied that itch with the G4-933. You got another itch? k

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    Yeah, I am an itchy guy.

    The Miles2 with an LVD drive made a huge difference with the graphics files/Apps in my old Mac. So to combine some real system/CPU power with fast drive performance has me all excited. I ordered the Cheetah last Tuesday hoping everything would come at once, but I just checked UPS.com and it isn't due until Tuesday! and I go away until Saturday first thing on Wednesday morning. no justice!

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    Kaye,
    I downloaded the Initio firmware update, ran it and it worked fine. Nice to have that drive back.

    Now, is there some utility that I can use to see what kind of performance I am getting. (I am sure there is, and I may even have it, but i am a little ignorant of these special things)

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    Greg,

    If you have HD Speedtools, there is an OSX version now. There is also CHUD Tools, latest version ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Tool_C...b17.pkg.tar.gz and description here http://developer.apple.com/tools/debuggers.html

    The link there is for the older version 1.1.1. In particular, the bashpack.dmg tools are what I like to use. k

  16. #16
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    Well, the cheetah arrived today, the other drive and the Miles2 seem to be getting along alright with OSX and the G4. I haven't tested the performance yet because the tools that you referred me to Kaye require the Dec 01 version of Apple Dev Tools. I have the Sept 01 version. I need to do the download for that.

    Now, Seagate writes that Apple's drive setup usually does not work with nonApple drives. How about Disk Utility in OSX? BTW I have used Drive Set up on the Atlas 10k and it seemed to go fine. What is the Guru's advice in this matter? (before I pop that Cheetah in and throw caution to the wind)

  17. #17
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    Greg,

    You can try Drive Setup but I have also used Disk Utility in OSX with good results. It has (at least it did the last time I used it) a check box for installing the OS9 driver as well as the OSX native driver. k

  18. #18
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    kaye,

    Disk Utility worked fine. The drive is great and I will run bashpack soon and see what your opinion is.

    One problem, I can fit the Cheetah or the Quantum Atlas but not both. They are the same height so that is not the trouble. The reason is the configuration of the cable that came with the Miles2. There are connectoers for three drives and a terminator. I can't stack the two drives anywhere in the case and the cable won't allow enought room to have them side by side-the two middle connectors are too close and the third is too close to the terminator. Can these be adjusted or are the positions set in stone? Or can I add another connector in a more convenient section of the cable?

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    Greg,

    I found even the standard Granite 4-connector, 3-drives, to be tight in the bottom of my B*W and ended up getting a custom length with extra room, making it 12" instead of 8" - Granite did it for what a regular cable would be. Shorter is better for reducing noise, signal and stuff I'm sure, but not if it is too tight. Or, if like me, you are in the habit of changing things around often (which I've stopped doing, keeping one internal drive, and the rest are externally housed).

    Gregory

  20. #20
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    Greg,

    I've been ignoring answering this post because I had some house things to do and the answer is long. Now I have the time.

    First let's look at this http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/IDE/quick...0GB-RAID-1.jpg which is an ATA drive RAID off of a PCI card right next to the case door hinge and behind the long PCI card. The one thing I dislike about the QS is the drives are on the case floor, there is little room between the drives and the hinge (and therefore the mobo and mobo power connectors) when the case door is closed.

    As Gregory says, the easiest solution, and of course most expensive, is Granite LVD cabling and LVD Terminator. There are some Gotchas with purchasing the Granite stuff but I'll save that for later and concentrate on the economical solution. The Initio LVD cable is bass-ackwards in comparison to the Granite cabling in that the Initio cable approaches the drive from above the drive, so the last drive on the chain would have that short cable length and terminator below the drive, except there is no room below the drive and the hinge puts the case door against the terminator. The Granite cabling routs from below the drive and then past the drive upwards, so its terminator ends up laying on the top of the drive (actually I used a twist-tie to keep the Granite terminator off the top of the drive). Clear as mud so far?

    The econ solution to the Initio cable is a two-drive bracket. Your right drive bay is a two drive bracket. Proline used to sell the very same bracket, but no longer. You can either purchase the two drive bracket from an Apple dealer or move your right bay two drive bracket to the left bay, and use the single drive bracket from the left bay in the right bay, unless you already have two ATA drives in the right bay. So, you put one of the SCSI drives in the middle bay and the other in the upper left bay, so that the Initio terminator can be folded under the drive (into the lower bay of the two drive bracket).

    Looking at the pic link again, that left bay floor is a bit higher than the other bays so sticking the two drive bracket and drive in the upper bay impinges on the bottom of that tin cover just above and to the left of the left drive. The cover has to be removed (it is removable) and left out or snipped at the bottom. I just removed the cover. This is all a pain in the butt.

    Be careful with your ATA drive in the right bay. The ATA connector you remove from the drive is a Master. The other connector is for a Slave. The other problem is that ATA drives I've seen, the pins you push the connector onto are not nearly as strong as SCSI drive pins. If you don't get the connector back on exactly aligned before you push it in, you may very well break the soldered connection of a pin to the drive's bottom logic board and push the pin back where it won't go into the connector. Then life becomes a beach. I understand it requires very careful soldering of extremely small solder pads.

    Have I made this clear or confused the issue?

    Oh, I forgot something. You see that rectangular piece in the bottom left corner of the pic? You must route your Initio or Granite cable away from that because when you close the case door that rectangular thing will want to pinch (or worse) the cabling. Notice that was done in the pic, just angled away. k

    [This message has been edited by kaye (edited 06 July 2002).]

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