View Full Version : Server Question

03-15-2010, 07:21 PM
Hi guys! Where can I find this card - Radeon X1300 PCI Express Dual DVI 256 MB for an xserve. How about this "XServe with
the Apple PCI-X riser, P/N 922-7860."

03-15-2010, 08:43 PM
No idea. Ebay is your best option......followed by Google.

This (http://cgi.ebay.com/NVIDIA-GEFORCE-GT-120-512MB-PCIE-VIDEO-CARD-FOR-MAC-PRO_W0QQitemZ150422326612QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCC_Vi deo_TV_Cards?hash=item2305de8d54#ht_1683wt_941) is the only model pcie card I saw just now.

03-16-2010, 06:57 AM
Thanks UncleMac. Just got the server its a dual 3.0 Intel pre 2008. First time server user. It has a pre installed server os 10.5.8 I would like to ask you plenty of questions if you dont mind.
Do i need to unplug this every time i shut down? Seems like the two power supply fan never quits.
I need to add hard dives. 2 slots still empty. What kind of drives can I use? I need something for video storage too.
It came with LSI7202EP fibre channel card. Can I get an external hard drive for that? Can I replace it with Atto UL5d instead?
So I see that it has only 2 pci slots available. The video card says mezzanine, I guess I cant replace it with a regular video card. I need those 2 cards slot for the video card and the raid card. Is that right?
I hope you get to see this post again. - Gerry

03-16-2010, 09:19 AM
Servers are built to run 24/7, so yes, when powered off, they are in a standby mode, not fully off. Also allows lights out management, remote booting, etc. Same for all modern boxes: Dell, HP, IBM, Sun, etc.

The server is happy to be in standby mode, so no need to unplug, unless you never need remote access, and want to to be green. How about a switched power strip if you want to save juice?

As for internal storage, if you don't use Apple drives, it is trial and error. Years back I had good success with Seagate 7200.7 drives in a G5 Xserve, but it can vary by drive and model box I believe. I know some guys that tried WD velociraptors about a year back in a Xon Xserve, and they did not work at a boot drive. Would boot and run OK for a couple days, then suffer massive data corruption.

Long story short: If you want plug and play, get Apple drive modules. Otherwise, you need the ADM tray (not the blank space holders that normally ship in the box) plus a SATA HD that will be happy. If you have a few around to test, go for it. Just be sure you understand you are testing.....and could have issues. Beat it up pretty good before consider going live with it.

External storage: I expect you can go SCSI if you prefer, but I have not done any SCSI enterprise stuff in some years, so I can't offer you much help there, at least with current trends and issues. Since you already have the FC card, you simply plug in FC storage. Several vendors out there to choose from. This (http://www.getactivestorage.com/overview-es.php) is reported to be great stuff.

Depending on what your needs are (speed and total space) you might also consider iSCSI too.

That machine should have on-board video, with two PCI slots (FC card in one, one open).

03-16-2010, 09:39 AM
I would advocate dropping from your list parallel SCSI. Getting to where the only SCSI stuff you can get is old manufacture. If you want to switch out from Fibre you are better off going with SAS and or a mixed SAS and SATA environment. There are excellent hosts available, the speed is great and expandability is good. Costs, performance and availability is better with SAS than SCSI.


03-16-2010, 12:20 PM
I found out that I have one ADM with a hard drive installed and the 2 are just dummies. Just like Uncle said. I thought that I can just install the hard drives to the blanks.
I have Hitachi 400gb in one and says SATA. Is SATA and SAS interchangeable in the same caddy? Are the G5 Xserves and the MacPro's share the same interface? I can't get the one that says PATA, right?
One thing I would like to do first is to back up this existing hard drive coz it came with pre installed OS 10.5.8 which I dont have or not familiar with yet. Is it possible to back it up exactly to another hard drive once I get another ADM thing?
Please bear with me a little while since I'm just getting started with this MacPro Xserve thing. Thanks again.

03-16-2010, 03:24 PM
SuperDuper, Carbon Copy Cloner or Synchronize Pro X will all backup good. :)

03-16-2010, 06:25 PM
Yup, you can clone your OS to any FW or USB drive to be safe. Randy's picks will do the job.

Yes, the Apple ADM traddy/caddy will accept either a SATA or SAS (serial attached SCSI) drive; the reason it can use both has to do with the system bus. Many modern servers can use either. I would be careful about trying a SAS drive unless you have one to spare, as it is expensive to test, and if it does not work.....you can't easily re-task the HD like you could a spare SATA HD. Here (http://store.apple.com/us/product/TV823ZM/A) is the Apple option.

Yes, the G5 (SATA) caddy and the Intel caddy are the same, AFAIK. The G4 Xserve and the Xserve RAID use the ATA tray. Steer clear of those.

Should you decide to use services beyond the basic file serving, I highly you pop for Server 10.6. It runs much faster, is more stable, and most importantly....the services just work. Unlike 10.5 Server, which can be picky and frustrating at times. Plus, it is only $499.

Oh, and to add to Rick's insight, if you are looking for budget external storage, eSATA should be high on your list. He can assist you with options.

03-17-2010, 08:52 PM
UncleMac, I checked the link you posted. Mine is an older Xserve (Late 2006) and might not work. Heres what they said
Xserve Drive Module Compatibility
For drive module compatibility with Xserve systems, please see http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107569
Requires Xserve (Early 2009) and Mac OS X v10.5.6 or later.
Anyway, I got the 1TB SATA which is way cheaper. I'll have it in a week. The older 300 GB SAS (15,000 RPM) was discontinued already.
Any idea regarding speed of SAS vs. SATA in an Xserve? Have a good evening and thanks again.

03-17-2010, 08:59 PM
SAS vs SATA - Thanks, I goog already.

03-17-2010, 09:18 PM
Good catch.

The first gen Intel Xserves can handle SAS drives Check this (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Py28CVoXJAQJ:www.eclipse.com/products/apple/Xserve_Data_Sheet.pdf+sas+drive+for+2006+xserve&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj3WFFL_Y7h0F-CiLQGXRNNszgIEqgn51onAjuywHuQPF210-WF2ex9LDCBYSCv3GjMX1mAnnVnYAnSeRUwdNnJxFSe3PHWJSbp mAC4iQrIKZy77psFSjgFXbj61NmytvL_MMvl&sig=AHIEtbSGOWwEeTFRMctAiRGoMJmJHOWYNg) document, and this review (http://www.infoworld.com/t/platforms/xserve-xeon-review-part-2-beyond-intel-506) from an IT pro, and another spec (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/xserve/stats/xserve-intel-xeon-2.0-quad-specs.html) page. The question is which ones will work...

As for performance, SAS (or SCCI in general) excels at really quick access times for data base applications (many small file reads). I expect high volume web traffic of file sharing lots of small files to lots of users would probably benefit......whereas basic use for basic stuff, or large file use, I don't know how much faster the box would "feel". SAS should be more reliable for better uptime, if you can't tolerate the idea of a random HD failure dropping the server off line for a few hours until you can swap and restore drives.

Honestly, beyond enterprise use, I think SATA is very adequate for most users these days. SATA drives do occasionally fail, so think about an emergency backup clone, even if that is on firewire.

03-17-2010, 09:52 PM
Here (http://db.tidbits.com/article/10166) is the best summary I have ever found on the subject, and for the most part I agree with.

The bit about firmware and reliability refer to SATA drives IMHO, as all SAS drives are enterprise grade, last time I checked. Oh, and he pointed out an important fact I glossed over:

Yes, you can use a SAS drive in your Xserve, and yes the plug on the outside of the ADM is the same (that plugs into the Xserve), but the internal connection on the ADM is different for SAS drives and SATA drives. So you cannot put a SAS drive in a SATA ADM.