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kaye
11-30-2009, 03:12 PM
Friday, November 27, 2009, after seeing the very small Black Friday discounts on iMacs, about $101 as I recall, I looked at the Apple Refurbs.

Apple iMac "Core 2 Duo" 3.06 24-Inch (Early 2009)
Introduction Date: March 3, 2009
Discontinued Date: October 20, 2009

Apple Refurb Price:
$1349 (save $850, 38% off + CA tax = $1460.29)
Original new price $2199
Apple charges me CA tax of 8.25% which adds to the price. Shipping of course free. But sometimes Apple leaves hardware/software not part of the Refurb price which can be very nice.

After checking with DaBoss, I went back to the Apple Refurb site and it was gone and still gone today, Monday. Anyway Saturday I did a Google search and found a new one at PCConnection/MacConnection for $1499, exact same specs and Apple software:
PC Connection - iMac 24" 3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB RAM 1TB HD SuperDrive NVIDIA GeForce GT 130
I added a number of extras:
Product Description
iMac 24" 3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 4GB RAM 1TB HD SuperDrive NVIDIA GeForce GT 130
Mfr: Apple Computer
Item#: 9488217
Mfg. Part #: MB420LL/A $1,499.00
$1,668.00 w/3-Year AppleCare Protection Plan for iMac ($169)

Mini DisplayPort to DVI Adapter
Mfr: Apple Computer
Item#: 9150814
Mfg. Part #: MB570Z/A $29.00

Mini DisplayPort to VGA Adapter
Mfr: Apple Computer
Item#: 9150822
Mfg. Part #: MB572Z/A $29.00

Fusion 3 for Mac (FREE with purchase of any Apple CPU)
Mfr: VMware, Inc.
Item#: 10627608
Mfg. Part #: FUS3-ENG-M-CP $69.95

HP Photosmart C4680 All-in-One Printer
Mfr: HP/Compaq
Item#: 9658925
Mfg. Part #: Q8418A#ABA $99.95

USB 2.0 Printer Cable, Type A to Type B, 6ft
Mfr: HP/Compaq
Item#: 7779424
Mfg. Part #: Q6264A $16.95

Subtotal: $1,912.85
Shipping & Handling: Best Way - Ground $1.75
Tax: $.00
Total: $1,914.60

Several of these items have rebates but have to be applied for, I'm estimating about $300. All ships today.
Also ordered MAC OS X 10.6 SNOW LEOPARD RETAIL-INT for $33.00 including shipping and will order the 8MB memory from MacGurus store (two 4GB SO-DIMM modules). k

ricks
11-30-2009, 03:28 PM
I look forward to hearing your thoughts, positive and negative, from switching over from a tower to an iMac for a bunch of the stuff you do. I get asked that type of question a lot: "can I do what I want to do with an iMac?" Can't wait to hear another opinion on how to answer that question. Plus can point them at this post!

Have fun. Let me know if you need anything.

Rick

rwm
11-30-2009, 04:43 PM
I look forward to hearing your thoughts, positive and negative, from switching over from a tower to an iMac for a bunch of the stuff you do. Me too, my iMac seems to have power but I really don't use/test or spin the tires much. :D Be really interesting how it feels to you Kaye.

I miss having 2 hard drives but I do have FW.

yeungfeng
12-01-2009, 12:32 AM
They had one a couple of days earlier. I really wanted to jump on that one. . . but then you do have to pay for it too. It went away and I thought duh, I should've jumped. Then two days later another one came along, it was gone that day, maybe was there for 10 hours.

Seemed like the sweetest deal on a great computer.

Still drooling a little.

unclemac
12-01-2009, 01:07 AM
I think you are going to really like it. :)

HD is the only real limitiation......only one, and not for mere mortals to replace/upgrade. If only they would make the HD accessible through a door or something......these things would be close to perfect for the price.

kaye
12-01-2009, 09:49 AM
Rick, I will need stuff but have not yet decided what yet, but like Randy a FW800 case and drive. Think I have a couple of your 1TB Seagate drives, have to look. May also have one of your FW800 cases too, the one you can stand on. Curious what brand drive is installed in the iMac, 1TB what? And I will want the RAM upgrade 2 4MB sticks to 8MB after testing with 4MB. Will let you know.

Unc, I too wish the HD was easier to get to but hopefully 3 yr. AppleCare will keep me safe. The wife's iBook, that HD takes a beating because of the need for virtual memory. Still going strong, knock wood. k

rwm
12-01-2009, 12:28 PM
Kaye,

What will you do with the 2 - 2GB RAM sticks? ;) Want to trade Apple RAM? I have 2 - 1 GB sticks. and what.... LOL Mine runs at 800MHz DDR2 and yours is 1066MHz DDR3 it was a fun thought while I was thinking about it.

I have seen my Activity Monitor say I am using .... 1.5+ GB RAM so bumping my 2GB up some might be worth it - but is not a priority now.

Kaye, Good luck and enjoy. Also please post comments back.

yeungfeng
12-03-2009, 12:56 AM
Good Golly, I pulled the trigger. Thought it would never happen. There they were again just sitting there, online, refurbished. The exact same model as before. You just don't get that much off on any of the other Macs in the lineup.

Now what to do with a 1.6 Giga Design CPU.

Hazkell
12-03-2009, 01:24 AM
yeungfeng!, if you really want to sell the GIGA 1.6 .... I'm buying ... for REALL!
Send me an eMail and we'll sort it out!

thanks, h

kaye
12-03-2009, 07:04 PM
My iMac is scheduled to arrive Dec. 7. Just hope it is not a day that will live in infamy (1941). Coming in 3 separate shipments. k

yeungfeng
12-04-2009, 02:59 AM
Looks like I have to wait on Apple, order says 12/8-14. All the other stuff in several packages via DSL, UPS, and Fed Ex. should get here 12/7. Gosh I agree with you Kaye.:)

kaye
12-08-2009, 10:29 AM
My 3 packages arrived last night. The driver and his assistant put the packages in the garage. Later I moved them into the house because the temperature was supposed to get down to below freezing and it did get down to 27F. Today I need to open up and inventory the contents. Then I gotta apply for the rebates after I get the machine and contents running to be sure that everything works. Anyway I have a full day with Casper the dog too and he does not like me to ignore him. Will see how much I get done. k

rwm
12-09-2009, 03:01 PM
We call it frost up here. ;) It does look a little out of place. Damn Kaye those photos use all 20 inches of my screen. :D

unclemac
12-09-2009, 06:31 PM
Casper doesn't look happy about the frozen chew toy.

Very cold down here (by Cen Cal standards), about 23F was the low this morning. No snow. Yet.

So.....how about that iMac? :)

Damien
12-09-2009, 06:32 PM
Casper doesn't seem to mind..

yeungfeng
12-09-2009, 09:27 PM
I'll bet Kaye is up tp his eyeballs in iMac. I know I have been. My biggest beef so far is that the new smaller keyboard is too small. I make many errors typing. If there had been an option for the refurbished iMac to get a larger one I would have. I've got an extra one, fortunately. I like the numbers on the right, it's just easier for me.

10.6.2 is a bit of a pain to transfer to at least from Tiger. Adobe Reader doesn't work anymore. Found another PDF app called Skim (http://skim-app.sourceforge.net/) and it works just fine thank you. Even better because you can type into a PDF form. Lots of noise about Reader not working on Adobe's web site.

It would be nice to customize the transfer via migration assistant.

I had the flashing white line across the screen when I first started it up. That was fixed after upgrading 10.6.1 to 10.6.2. I was under the impression that was only on the 27" models. But I was wrong.

On a side note, the Burly Box has FW800, Ricks. I hadn't really looked at it. Already have my first backup done. Next thing is to rearrange my desk. The 24" iMac is really big.

M.Brane
12-09-2009, 11:44 PM
Damn, wish I had a new Mac to play with. Spent all my money on a bike, and it's been too damn cold to play with it much lately. Even too cold to spend time in the garage with the other bike I'm fixing for a friend. Maybe when I get that done I'll be able to get a new Mac to play with.:)

kaye
12-10-2009, 09:49 AM
Let's see, where am I? Spent yesterday getting familiar once again with 10.6, then 10.6.1, finally 10.6.2. Did not have the flashing white line across the screen at any point. I am used to the small keyboard because it is about the same size as the iBook G4. Will try Adobe Reader today.

Spent most of my time getting Geekbench, Power Fractal, Disk Warrior, Cinebench R10, Drive Genius 2.2, and SuperDuper installed. I have more to go.

Took a number of screenshots, here is Geekbench (32-bit), pretty good:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/Geekbench2.png
Can't run 64-bit unless I purchase the application. More to follow. k

kaye
12-10-2009, 01:01 PM
This is what the weather looked like on the morning of Dec 7 at my house.
Front looking up hill:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/IMG_0255.JPG
Neighbor's roof and foothills:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/IMG_0257.JPG
My back porch, hot tub, and yard:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/IMG_0261.JPG
Casper:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/IMG_0280.JPG
k

ricks
12-10-2009, 01:07 PM
To think you made fun of me when I moved to Idaho. I always say that California has no weather. looks like I was wrong. You do have a few hours of weather every few years.

Bet the freeways were a LOT of fun that day :weeskull:


R

rwm
12-10-2009, 01:07 PM
Much easier to view. That is really a nice looking area.

kaye
12-11-2009, 02:45 PM
Some of the iMac, one test and several info.
Power Fractal:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/PowerFractal.jpg
G5 gets 1.3 seconds - 18800.3 MegaFlops
About This Mac:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/AboutThisMac.png
ASP burning:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/ASP-DiscBurning.jpg
ASP Graphics/Displays:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/ASP-Graphics-Displays.jpg
ASP Memory:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/ASP-Memory.jpg
ASP HD:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/ASP-Serial-HD.jpg

Am having some problems with screenshots on the iMac. They are very grainy, the text looks ugly, and they are too big, a lot of white space around them. Will have to investigate that problem. Also cannot access my Apple iDisk account properly. So I used one of my two USB Maxtor OneTouch hard drives to transfer the above files to my G5 and clean them up with Adobe Photoshop CS4. Still have yet to try Adobe Reader on the iMac.

Best times for a very cold boot on the G5 currently from the startup bong is 58-60 seconds. Same situation on the iMac is 28 seconds. Only timed it once so far. k

kaye
12-11-2009, 03:48 PM
There is no Adobe Reader installed on the iMac. It uses Mac OSX 10.6.2 Quartz PDFContext, whatever that is, to create PDF documents and to read them. k

rwm
12-11-2009, 05:22 PM
I installed Adobe Reader on mine.

unclemac
12-11-2009, 05:48 PM
Sounds right Kaye. Apple has not shipped Reader in ages....though you can grab it if you like. Preview does a good job and is very quick, though not as full featured (or bloated) as Reader.

10.6 screen shots are different. I like using Jing for screen shots, but there are other great third party tools too.

Or, you can turn off the annoying shadow manually in Terminal:

defaults write com.apple.screencapture disable-shadow -bool true

Reboot, and try screenshot again. If you want the shadow back on, kill the pref:

defaults delete com.apple.screencapture disable-shadow


Then rinse, repeat. :)


Oh, and Grabbing with Preview (File/Grab/Window) will not give you a shadow by default.

kaye
12-12-2009, 07:47 AM
thanks Unc, all good to know. I tried Jing on my G5 and it was fine. Will try on the iMac. k

yeungfeng
12-13-2009, 01:09 AM
Reader migrated over from Tiger.

Reader not supported on this MAC, is what the finder pops up.

Then there is:
Adobe warns of critical Flash and Air vulnerabilities (http://www.adobe.com/support/security/bulletins/apsb09-19.html)

kaye
12-13-2009, 04:45 PM
Have installed Jing (free version) on the iMac. Have run Cinebench R10 once and here is what I get:
CINEBENCH R10
************************************************** **
Tester : kyum

Processor : 3.06GHz Intel Core2 Duo
MHz : 3060MHz
Number of CPUs : 2
Operating System : OS X 32 BIT 10.6.2

Graphics Card : NVIDIA GeForce GT 130 OpenGL Engine
Resolution : <1920x1200>
Color Depth : <Millions>
************************************************** **

Rendering (Single CPU): 3558 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 6693 CB-CPU

Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.88

Shading (OpenGL Standard) : 6445 CB-GFX

************************************************** **
G5 gets
Rendering (Single CPU): 2011 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 3665 CB-CPU

Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.82

Shading (OpenGL Standard) : 2848 CB-GFX
************************************************** **
Quite a speedup for the iMac. Have not yet installed the Gurus 8GB memory nor the FW800 stuff. k

rwm
12-13-2009, 05:15 PM
Looks good Kaye. These Intel Core2 Duo's seem nice. I did not take much time testing or comparing my iMac to my Dual 1.6 G4 Giga.

I could feel the difference and never missed the noise the fans made in my G4 tower.

kaye
12-15-2009, 08:12 PM
I gave up on the wired mouse. Been using Kensington trackballs with two other computers. Ordered another (same model) Trackball (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009KH63/ref=ox_ya_os_product) for total $69.09 and it works fine. But I have been connecting so much USB that I'm getting nervous. Ordered another iHub7 (http://www.welovemacs.com/ihub7.html) today, USB powered hub, $45.87 with tax and ground shipping. Arrives tomorrow. k

M.Brane
12-15-2009, 08:49 PM
Lots of ProTools engineers love those expert trackballs. I use an Orbit myself. I can use it for hours without any problems.

I have a M$ wireless mouse that I use with my Pismo sometimes. It's one of the few mice I actually like, but I'm still a trackball guy.

kaye
12-16-2009, 09:45 AM
Tested the HD last night:
QuickBench(TM) 4.0 Test Results
2000-2007 Intech Software Corp.
Test file created on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 at 6:33:21 PM
Test Volume Name: Macintosh HD
Test Volume Type: MacOS Extended
Test Volume Size: 931.192 Gigabytes
Test Volume Free Space: 919.670 Gigabytes
Allow Disk Cache Effects: Enabled
Read Cache Delay: 30 milliseconds
Write Cache Delay: 20 milliseconds
All reads and writes performed sychronously

Standard Test Results:
Test Cycles: 1

Transfer Size Sequential Read Sequential Write Random Read Random Write

4 KBytes 20.571 MB/Sec 23.868 MB/Sec 0.707 MB/Sec 10.929 MB/Sec
8 KBytes 55.707 MB/Sec 36.377 MB/Sec 1.503 MB/Sec 17.824 MB/Sec
16 KBytes 86.847 MB/Sec 57.579 MB/Sec 3.007 MB/Sec 25.124 MB/Sec
32 KBytes 129.150 MB/Sec 84.578 MB/Sec 5.753 MB/Sec 28.388 MB/Sec
64 KBytes 168.673 MB/Sec 115.008 MB/Sec 11.369 MB/Sec 38.166 MB/Sec
128 KBytes 205.468 MB/Sec 142.650 MB/Sec 22.202 MB/Sec 41.074 MB/Sec
256 KBytes 232.072 MB/Sec 110.664 MB/Sec 36.531 MB/Sec 110.843 MB/Sec
512 KBytes 245.645 MB/Sec 111.221 MB/Sec 49.362 MB/Sec 72.489 MB/Sec
1024 KBytes 254.492 MB/Sec 179.996 MB/Sec 70.724 MB/Sec 81.028 MB/Sec

Standard Ave 155.403 MB/Sec 95.771 MB/Sec 22.351 MB/Sec 47.318 MB/Sec


Large Test Results:
Test Cycles: 1

Transfer Size Large Read Large Write

2 MBytes 263.052 MB/Sec 181.991 MB/Sec
3 MBytes 174.661 MB/Sec 183.015 MB/Sec
4 MBytes 153.505 MB/Sec 144.386 MB/Sec
5 MBytes 139.064 MB/Sec 132.966 MB/Sec
6 MBytes 130.903 MB/Sec 126.345 MB/Sec
7 MBytes 123.162 MB/Sec 119.599 MB/Sec
8 MBytes 122.006 MB/Sec 105.870 MB/Sec
9 MBytes 119.289 MB/Sec 116.728 MB/Sec
10 MBytes 115.613 MB/Sec 112.835 MB/Sec

Large Ave 149.028 MB/Sec 135.971 MB/Sec


Extended Test Results:
Test Cycles: 1

Transfer Size Extended Read Extended Write

20 MBytes 117.591 MB/Sec 101.841 MB/Sec
30 MBytes 111.752 MB/Sec 100.412 MB/Sec
40 MBytes 109.278 MB/Sec 103.758 MB/Sec
50 MBytes 106.815 MB/Sec 97.655 MB/Sec
60 MBytes 109.385 MB/Sec 104.324 MB/Sec
70 MBytes 107.839 MB/Sec 102.464 MB/Sec
80 MBytes 101.879 MB/Sec 96.556 MB/Sec
90 MBytes 104.804 MB/Sec 99.666 MB/Sec
100 MBytes 106.199 MB/Sec 104.200 MB/Sec

Extended Ave 108.394 MB/Sec 101.209 MB/Sec

Looks like QB does not use the Snow Leopard HD size calculations. No matter, either way the HD is about 1.24% used.
Macintosh HD is a WD Caviar Black
1TB, SATA 3Gb/s, 32MB Cache, 7200 RPM
Capacity: 1 TB
Model: WDC WD1001FALS-40K1B0
Revision: 07.00K07
File System: Journaled HFS+
Nice drive. Working on getting my Gurus Store purchases installed today. k

kaye
12-16-2009, 04:00 PM
I purchased both a FW800 case kit and 2 sticks of memory for 8MB total. What I needed was:

1. Burly Single Bay Firewire Hotswap SATAII Drive Enclosure MGBurly1FWHS $254.00

2. LCD Bay [Add $21.50]
Firewire Burly (http://macgurus.com/productpages/firewire/Burly1FirewireHS.php#table1). I have another Burly currently backing up Da Boss's iBook G4 with a Firewire 800 to 400 converter.

I already have a Seagate 1.5TB in a Burly Single Bay SATA enclosure (with LCD) so my thought was to put the drive tray with Seagate into the Burly because it would go directly in. The firmware of the Seagate is SD17 (I don't know whether that is good or not) but firmware does not matter with Firewire 400 or 800. Obviously the Gurus Store (http://macgurus.com/productpages/firewire/fwcasekitsindex.php) has other less and more expensive FW800 solutions but I already have much of what I wanted.

The Burly will be plugging into a NitroAV (http://www.firewiredirect.com/product/113/#) and all of the ports look like 9-pin FW800. So I wanted a Granite Digital cable to connect 9-pin out of the 9-pin Nitro port into 9-pin FW800 iMac port. Needed:

9 pin to 9 pin 1394B 6ft GD4941 $47.45 GD4941 (http://macgurus.com/productpages/firewire/FW800Cables.php#table3)
Memory for iMac - Apple iMac "Core 2 Duo" 3.06 24-Inch (Early 2009) Specs (MB420LL/A)
Supports 1066 MHz PC3-8500 DDR3 SO-DIMMs (1066 MHz DDR3 SDRAM) so I needed:
4GB DDR3 1066MHz PC3-8500 SO-DIMMs 204 pins 4GBDDR3-8500SO $315.00 2 $630
my iMac RAM (http://macgurus.com/productpages/ram/mgram.php#table1)
Purchased all from the MacGurus Store. Arrived in 3 shipments. Unpacked and working on putting everything together. Thanks very much Laurie and Rick! k

kaye
12-16-2009, 07:33 PM
Xbench Test (http://db.xbench.com/merge.xhtml?doc2=413985) score 183.64
My G5, most of the scores were using a RAM Disk, up to a score of 413.46 with 8GB RAM. The one comparable to the iMac with no RAM Disk used testing a Maxtor boot drive, 38% full, 8GB RAM, score 144.27. k

kaye
12-18-2009, 04:37 PM
OK the 8GB Gurus memory is in
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/iMacMemory8GB.jpg

That little screw in the center of the RAM access door was in so tight, made it difficult to loosen. Then the black plastic RAM tabs are very slippery, had to use needle nose pliers to pull the RAM loose. But it works. k

kaye
12-21-2009, 10:06 AM
How do I tell if this machine will run Windows Vista in 64-bit or only in 32-bit? k

unclemac
12-21-2009, 03:13 PM
That's a big 10-4 on both the RAM cover screw and the RAM tab thingies.

Why do they torque that little screw down like that??

Do you want to do Bootcamp or VM software?

kaye
12-22-2009, 02:58 PM
Well Unc I have Fusion 3 which has both 32-bit and 64-bit. I have also looked at MS Windows 7 Home Premium which includes 32-bit & 64-bit versions. I want to run X-Plane in Windows and more than satisfy the system requirements. X-Plane can do either 32-bit or 64-bit. And it will run on either Snow Leopard or Windows 7.

The one con I see on the net is that 64-bit may screw up my Mac system preferences. And I am a total newbie at Windows. k

kaye
12-25-2009, 03:49 PM
Decided to try it anyway. k

kaye
12-25-2009, 04:28 PM
Couple of photos of the iMac, its temporary location, and other stuff:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/IMG_0485.JPG
You see the Gurus Burly and the NitroAV on the left, the keyboard has an iSkin ProTouch Keyboard Protector Sonic color, further right the Kensington Trackball, and then the Kensington MasterPiece Plus w/ Remote. The Macally iHub7 (USB 1.1) has been removed because my Maxtor/Seagate USB 2.0 does not like USB 1.1 at all. I can keep the iHub7 as a backup for my G5. I plug the Maxtor into the G5 front port USB 2.0.

So the last item on the right rear is a Belkin USB 2.0 7-Port Hub temporarily robbed from the G5. Everything USB is plugged into the Belkin except the keyboard which is plugged into a USB 2.0 port on the back of the iMac.

I changed the Finder prefs to show the hard drives on the Finder screen:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/IMG_0512.JPG
k

rwm
12-26-2009, 07:31 PM
Looks good Kaye. Also you kicked my butt (http://db.xbench.com/merge.xhtml?doc2=413985) as expected your Intel iMac vs. my Intel iMac :)

But my darn email works. :dance:

kaye
12-26-2009, 07:59 PM
I am very glad you have your email working. I know you have been working on that for a long time.:D k

rwm
12-26-2009, 08:18 PM
Embarrassed it was so simple. :o I figured it would be. :mad:

I just have not had the energy to do things these last few years. But I have really noticed starting this September up until now. That I feel better now than the past 2 years or the first bad pneumonia April/May 2007.

I am over this last little bout.

kaye
12-27-2009, 09:15 AM
Great that your health has improved so much. Just knowing that is a comfort to us all.

Email settings have never been easy for me. Except for my primary account, my other accounts would never have worked without my son's help. When he leaves town, I keep my fingers crossed. k

kaye
12-27-2009, 09:44 AM
All of the applications and utilities (latest versions) I use and the order I do it for creating and maintaining a backup of my primary boot drive work just fine with Snow Leopard 10.6.2.

1. Disk Utility to repair permissions of the Mac HD.
2. SuperDuper to back up the Mac HD to the FW drive.
3. Disk Utility to repair permissions of the FW drive.
4. DiskWarrior the FW drive.
5. Drive Genius, the Defrag utility, the FW drive.
6. DiskWarrior again the FW drive. k

kaye
12-28-2009, 05:25 PM
Going back to retest all of the apps done before now with Gurus 8GB RAM and first tried Geekbench 64-bit:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/Geekbench2.2.png
The first try, 4710 score, I discovered I was running it from the download, duh. I then moved the Geekbench 64-bit app to the Utilities folder and ran it again which yielded the 4721 score. Wow, much faster at 64-bit.

Power Fractal apparently runs 32-bit because it yielded the same 1.1 seconds - 20451.2 MegaFlops.

The Xbench Test (http://db.xbench.com/merge.xhtml?doc2=416428) score of 185.50 is also much faster but must be the Gurus 8GB RAM. Cinebench R10 to go.

64-bit survives a reboot as well as a shutdown and startup. Not running Fusion 3 yet, maybe faster then, will see later. k

unclemac
12-28-2009, 10:03 PM
Go get 'em Kaye.

......So, you a confirmed Intel switcher now? :)

kaye
12-29-2009, 10:29 AM
You bet Unc, for sure. BTW, now even tho I went back to 32-bit this morning, 64-bit apps still launch and give me 64-bit results. k

kaye
12-29-2009, 10:48 AM
I checked ASP this morning under Software and this is the result:
Geekbench 2, two apps, one 32-bit, one 64-bit
Power Fractal, 32-bit
Cinebench R10, 32-bit (Windows version has both 32-bit and 64-bit)
Xbench, 32-bit

Some of the apps I use:
Disk Utility, 64-bit
SuperDuper, 32-bit
DiskWarrior, 32-bit
Drive Genius, 32-bit
ASP, 64-bit

Some surprises for me:
iDVD, 32-bit
iMovie, 32-bit
iPhoto, 32-bit
iTunes, 32-bit
iWeb, 32-bit k

rwm
12-29-2009, 11:58 AM
Some surprises for me:
iDVD, 32-bit
iMovie, 32-bit
iPhoto, 32-bit
iTunes, 32-bit
iWeb, 32-bit k Not that I'll really notice but why....... Those are main apps and leaving them at 32 bit after these changes? :(

unclemac
12-29-2009, 04:09 PM
Probably cause iLife '09 was developed in '08, and likely may be from an older code base too. The good news is that the biggest part of being 64 bit has to do with addressing RAM, and most iLife stuff is not a massive RAM hog......so it won't matter much if at all for most folks. Probably won't matter at all until we have well beyond 4GB of RAM actually installed. That counts out most iLife users.

Oh, and unless Apple snuck some new code in iTunes 9, it is very old code.

As a reminder......helping a customer the other day with an XP work horse, and it will only Address 3GB of RAM total. Period. Not beating up on XP, as it is 10 years old.......but we are lucky to be able to run oldish Macs with 10.5 and even be able to run 4+ GB of RAM......32 bit or not.

Will be interesting to see what next iWork will be......hopefully all 64 bit, and perhaps serious changes to try and counter things like Google docs. We have all expected iLife to slowly catch up to MS Office (mostly has now), only to see that though Office is not going away, it ain't all that like it used to be. I am curious if Apple will have target fixation on Office, or will try to match/best Google Docs, and other new minded approaches to traditional software models.

Will be interesting to see if iLife morphs into something new too. iDVD just sits, with no big change for years, and iPhoto is catching some heat from paid software like LightRoom and such. Would love to see a iPhoto able to do home and SMB DAM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_asset_management) duty too. Other things real folks are starting to really do, in the real world might be interesting additions (document management, for example). In a nut shell.....Apple has nearly perfected iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, and iWeb as stand alone apps. Will they continue to improve and append these apps incrementally.....or will there be some fundamental changes to the apps, or new additions?

OK, back to your regularly scheduled iMac thread. :)

yeungfeng
12-31-2009, 02:59 AM
Kaye did the added RAM speed things up? I don't think I would be upping the ante right now, but enquiring minds want to know.

My Seagate drive from Gurus has arrived, with the sled for the Burley Hot swap. Is being zeroed out right now. 2 hrs is what it says. I'm planning on this being my "main" backup. I was thinking that I would make a large partition and use it for Time Machine and a smaller one for using SuperDuper.

When TM was announced, I was impress. I've never used it before, though. SuperDuper has worked nicely and I wouldn't want to find TM not working as well for me.

I upgraded to Quickbooks 2010. Some numbers were off. Loaded it up the other day and it said I needed an update. That fixed the problem. The program now allows one to process credit cards via Intuit. I use my Mac(s) for business, and have since 1988. The new iPod Touch 64GB will sync for scheduling purposes. No more PB to carry on trips either. This all should be a real nice fit for me.

One question I can't find an answer to is... Will the MacPro Speakers from the DA work with the iMac? That would be nice:dance:

kaye
12-31-2009, 10:31 AM
I definitely think the added RAM speeded things up. And a side benefit is that there is less use of virtual memory (the internal hard drive churning along) which I find important. But it depends on your software and needs too.

The MacPro Speakers, can you provide a link? k

kaye
12-31-2009, 04:53 PM
Latest
CINEBENCH R10
************************************************** **

Tester : kyum

Processor : 3.06GHz Intel Core2 Duo
MHz : 3060MHz
Number of CPUs : 2
Operating System : OS X 32 BIT 10.6.2

Graphics Card : NVIDIA GeForce GT 130 OpenGL Engine
Resolution : <1920x1200>
Color Depth : <Millions>

************************************************** **

Rendering (Single CPU): 3557 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 6707 CB-CPU

Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.89

Shading (OpenGL Standard) : 6607 CB-GFX


************************************************** **
And
Xbench (http://db.xbench.com/merge.xhtml?doc2=416915) at 185.68. That should do it for awhile. k

yeungfeng
12-31-2009, 04:54 PM
Opps, my bad. Apple Pro Speakers.

http://www.welovemacs.com/speakers-pro.html

unclemac
12-31-2009, 08:55 PM
Regarding TM and SD.......why not use both? Two backups are better than one. TM is awesome for hourly data backups, auto grooming of old backups, and silly easy restores. SD is awesome for scheduled backups and bootable clones.

yeungfeng
01-01-2010, 01:55 AM
Actually unclemac, I am using both. Wondered if it might be a bit redundant. Didn't know if TM was a bootable backup. I really need to spend some time learning all the new aspects of 10.6.2. Thanks for the feedback.

Upgrading bookkeeping took a month, can't have that stuff all screwed up right at tax season.

Was pleased to find Appleworks runs just fine on 10.6.2, I thought it would be history.

Still don't like the little keyboard. When I retire the DA I'll switch to the full size one I bought a couple of years ago.

rwm
01-01-2010, 12:59 PM
Didn't know if TM was a bootable backup. My question too. Is it bootable? I've been using SD. But have plenty of backup drives and could do both.

ricks
01-01-2010, 01:27 PM
Time Machine must be recovered from. It is an incremental data base, not a usable set of files until after you recover the files in it.

Rick

yeungfeng
01-02-2010, 02:08 AM
Well then, that fixes it. Having Time Machine backup as well as a bootable backup with SuperDuper give me just what I wanted.

Thanks

kaye
01-02-2010, 03:00 PM
I purchased a suite of tools DiglloydTools (http://macperformanceguide.com/Software-Main.html) for testing, particularly interested in memory but will use the entire suite. Want to compare my G5 with the iMac. I have also sent an email to X-Plane asking why no 64-bit version for Mac and whether the Windows 64-bit version is actually faster or just "compatible" as they say. k

kaye
01-04-2010, 08:19 AM
Still waiting for the key to DiglloydTools. Got an answer from X-Plane:

X-Plane WILL run on 64 Bit OS's. But the improvement is negligible. That is - I think you're wasting your time a bit (assuming that that's the only reason you're looking at that OS).

Please let me know if you need anything else and I'll be happy to assist.

Thanks,

Randy Witt
X-Plane, Customer Support
913-269-0976
So it is just "compatible", tho I'm sure the Mac version will run faster on the iMac than my G5. Another issue has come up. Da Boss is so enamored with this iMac and its screen real estate that she wants it bad. I think she is going to get what she wants. She just runs Safari, Mail, and Skype. k

unclemac
01-04-2010, 09:32 AM
.......I think so too. :)

ricks
01-04-2010, 11:50 AM
Da boss would like a 2.7 GHz G5 with a BIG screen maybe? With what she uses a computer for that would be a killer setup - except stuck at 10.5. Sounds like you are about to be the proud owner of another iMac.

R

kaye
01-04-2010, 06:44 PM
She has no interest in my G5. I'm already looking into another iMac. It will be awhile tho. k

kaye
01-05-2010, 10:00 AM
Somebody relieve my brain pain. I get it that this iMac has no battery. How is the info that used to be on battery for a startup now retained? On the hard drive I suppose it has to be. Help. k

rwm
01-05-2010, 06:00 PM
...... I get it that this iMac has no battery. How is the info that used to be on battery for a startup now retained? On the hard drive I suppose it has to be. ..... That is a good question. I did not know that. I never thought about it. :(

So, Which new iMac have you got your eyes on. Someone needs to give the 27" Quad Core a spin. :D

unclemac
01-05-2010, 06:03 PM
Most are on the HD via preferences, and a few are in the firmware (EFI) such as startup drive.

There is still a small PRAM battery to retain some of the stuff, such as time clock settings. Those are not on the HD...always assumed they are in the firmware, but that's me assuming.

It's the round disk towards the middle:
http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.com/igi/ktLKDUFPyGmyPPQJ.large

unclemac
01-05-2010, 06:05 PM
Just assisted a customer with two maxed out 27" Quad cores, with 2TB HD and 16GB (......yes 16!) of RAM. Nice. :kickass:

yeungfeng
01-06-2010, 12:28 AM
Gezzz just like that my 3.06 is feeling left behind. Oh not really that far.

Kaye how are the temps on your iMac? I've got 101F on CPU and 128F on the HD via iStat.

I thought the DA was warm but this seems out of line.

kaye
01-06-2010, 10:10 AM
Thanks Unc, very interesting. And nothing like a picture to see. yeungfeng, never checked temps, will try iStat and report back. k

kaye
01-06-2010, 10:22 AM
OK, I give up. Which version of iStat are you using? There are 3, iStat Menus 2.0, iStat pro 4.9, and iStat 2.0. k

yeungfeng
01-06-2010, 12:34 PM
Oh!?! That would be iStatnano 2.2. it's free:)

kaye
01-06-2010, 10:00 PM
Long time getting back because we have our Granddaughter here as well as Casper the dog. Anyway was able to run the iMac for about 2 hours and this is what I get:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/iStatNano_iMac.png
Hope this tells you something may be wrong or not with your temps in F. k

kaye
01-07-2010, 09:37 AM
Ran across this today
EFI and SMC firmware updates for Intel-based Macs (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1237?viewlocale=en_US)
Will have to check ASP. k

kaye
01-07-2010, 04:42 PM
According to System Profiler, the Boot ROM Version is up to date and there is no SMC Version update. My iMac is up to date.

I was going thru the Apple Discussions where a link was provided to this (http://www.ahatfullofsky.comuv.com/English/Programs/SMS/SMS.html) and see the link on that website to Apple's Snow Leopard. Anyway the Apple Discussions did not recommend using Startup Mode Selector to switch between 32-bit and 64-bit, only to use it to check that you are still in 32-bit or 64-bit mode.

I put it in the Utilities Folder and in the Dock where I can launch it and check that i am still in 64-bit mode:
http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/SelectStartupMode.jpg

It works for that just fine. k

rwm
01-07-2010, 06:39 PM
How did you get the iStatnano temp image? I can't figure it out.

Attached is what Hardware Monitor reports on my 2.66 iMac it's a 2008. The temps are reported both F/C.

kaye
01-08-2010, 09:47 AM
Let's see, I'm on my G5 but the procedure is the same as I recall. I like to get the corner curves:
1. Hit the caps lock key to get a green light.
2. Put the arrow cursor on top of the widget.
3. Single click it.
4. command-shift-4
5. That will give you a cursor that you can use to drag across the widget (keep it pretty close to the edges of what you want to capture, or
5a. After Step 4 hit the space bar and you should get a camera.
6. Single click
7. You should have a png file on your desktop.
8. Quit Dashboard.
9. Double click the file and look at it in Preview to see how it turned out.

BTW, you can crop out extra space in Preview. k

kaye
01-08-2010, 10:13 AM
Anybody, let me know how that screenshot works.

I ran some tests of Hazkell's LCD monitor test images (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/) first on my G5 then on the iMac. I was most interested in Response time.
Looks like my G5 does in fact work out to 14ms. The iMac a little better, 13 or 12ms, somewhere in that area.

I also hooked up a Kill A Watt to the iMac. The iMac when shutdown, cycled between 6 to 7w then back to 0w, meaning sometimes 6 to 0 or 7 to 0. Pretty green.

On Startup, 140w max, 125w mostly, 105w after settling down at the Desktop. k

rwm
01-08-2010, 01:11 PM
I don't see a 20" iMac late 2008 on the list.

ASP Says....

Boot ROM Version: IM81.00C1.B00
SMC Version (system): 1.29f1

kaye
01-08-2010, 02:19 PM
You must be up to date or the list sez an update is not necessary. Did you try Software Update? k

rwm
01-08-2010, 04:59 PM
Did you try Software Update? k Yes - nothing, I should be good to go it looks.

kaye
01-09-2010, 09:27 AM
I think Apple is classifying your iMac as Early 2008 but that is not on the list anyway. See here iMac (Early 2008 - Tech Specs) (http://support.apple.com/kb/SP485) yours in the middle column?

I need to download Hardware Monitor and compare the results with iStat nano. k

rwm
01-09-2010, 01:11 PM
You are right Kaye. I bought in the spring of 2009 but it was an Apple refurbished. So it is considered early 2008.

yeungfeng
01-10-2010, 11:32 PM
Took readings three times yesterday. At Startup:

HD .......................72
CPU A ...................79
CPU A ...................77
GPU Diaode ...........85
GPU Heatsink .........88
Ambient ................67
Memory Controller ..83

Evening (nothing but monitor sleeps) and constant use

HD .......................130
CPU A ...................106
CPU A ...................106
GPU Diaode ...........131
GPU Heatsink .........130
Ambient ................74
Memory Controller ..117

Later in evening with light use

HD .......................128
CPU A ...................104
CPU A ...................101
GPU Diaode ...........130
GPU Heatsink .........128
Ambient ..................72
Memory Controller ..115

Tonight after emails and web only
HD .......................117
CPU A ....................95
CPU A ....................94
GPU Diaode ...........110
GPU Heatsink .........112
Ambient ..................70
Memory Controller ..103


Seems like it might be a little warm. There is space around it, but it's not out in the open. Not sure what to think.

kaye
01-11-2010, 08:02 AM
A comparison of Hardware Monitor and iStat nano readings. We turn the house heat off at night in the winter so the temps were pretty cold in the room, 59F. And the iMac is still on the floor.

Yesterday morning I took a screenshot of Hardware Monitor first, then iSat nano about 3.5 minutes later. Pretty close overall. Obviously more info from Hardware Monitor.

http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/HardwareMonitor.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/iStatNano.png

Your readings look reasonable to me. k

rwm
01-11-2010, 11:32 AM
Well K's ambient air is 58
and yeungfeng's the lower 70's

and mine are in the mid to upper 70's :o

Thats why things are like they are cool, warm and overly warm. :rolleyes:

unclemac
01-11-2010, 05:15 PM
Don't forget, different machines. Different chip sets, different venting/fan layout, and could have different sensor layout too. Latest machines have Aluminum backs, which may dissipate heat better as well.

Likely apples to oranges. Don't fret too much.

rwm
01-11-2010, 08:53 PM
I am not worried but when my ambient air starts 15 to 20 degrees more it's hard to keep things cool. :(

kaye
01-12-2010, 12:18 PM
Latest version of OpenGL Extensions Viewer is 3.16. It runs slower on my G5 (OSX 10.4.11) than 3.14. Anyway a comparison of v3.16 on my iMac with v3.16 on the G5 which is much slower FPS.
OpenGL Viewer (http://www.realtech-vr.com/glview/download.html)

http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/iMacOpenGL.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/kaye_yum/.Public/G5openGL.jpg
Note that Quincux multisampling (whatever that is) is only available on the iMac, grayed out on the G5. k

kaye
01-13-2010, 09:24 AM
Article here (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/12/apple-progressing-toward-full-support-for-opengl-3-0-in-mac-os-x-10-6-3/) discussing Apple and OpenGL 3.0 support. k

kaye
02-03-2010, 10:31 AM
A couple of things, first I used Unc's excellent tip for for turning off the annoying screenshot shadow manually in Terminal and will be testing that several times today because I finally decided to install X-Plane v9 on the iMac (a somewhat but not much smaller version with just the USA about 68GB instead of worldwide about 72GB and updated it to v9.44.

So I will be comparing OSX 10.4.11 old G5 DP with iMac dual core 10.6.2, both 8GB RAM but iMac faster speed, G5 256MB VRAM, iMac 512MB. That VRAM difference could be huge. Will find out. k

yeungfeng
04-06-2010, 01:21 PM
Well I finally had my first crash last night. I was logged into iTunes and had Safari opened up. I was having a little trouble reading the page I was on so I changed the screen resolution. Bag the screen turned blue and nothing else happened.

I did a force quit and restarted all well and fine. I rebooted from external HD Backup and ran DU which said:
2010-04-06 09:20:13 -0600: Repairing permissions for “Macintosh HD”
2010-04-06 09:30:40 -0600: Permissions differ on "usr/share/derby", should be drwxr-xr-x , they are lrwxr-xr-x .
2010-04-06 09:30:40 -0600: Repaired "usr/share/derby".
2010-04-06 09:31:31 -0600: Warning: SUID file "System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/ARDAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/ARDAgent" has been modified and will not be repaired.
2010-04-06 09:33:30 -0600:
2010-04-06 09:33:30 -0600: Permissions repair complete

Wonder if this is a problem?
Why did it crash changing screen resolutions?
What is the meaning of life? Just thought I'd mix it up a bit.