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stevez
07-18-2009, 05:56 PM
I have your very first box only box:

Apparently we need a new card for the computer:
SeriTek/2SE2-E PCI Express (PCIe) Serial ATA Adapter

other cards available?

Apparently we need new cables twixt box & computer?
I have type A

new PCI bracket?

anything else ?

thanks !

ricks
07-19-2009, 09:07 PM
I guess I don't know what you are asking.... Are you looking for a Seritek or something else? We don't carry Firmtek cards any longer. All the PCIe cards listed (http://www.macgurus.com/productpages/sata/PCIeSATAHostCards.php) will work perfectly in your MacPro.

You have a choice to make here on cabling:

1) Replace just your external SATA cables with TypeA to eSATA.

2) Replace the internal Burly cables with eSATA and then use eSATA to eSATA cables for the external cables. This would make your whole setup current. Adds $30 or so to the cost though.

Rick

stevez
07-20-2009, 09:45 AM
I guess I would acquire this card:

Lycom eSATA 2 Port PCIe Host Card

Since it is cheaper, I wonder why?
Slower transfer rates?
Strictly for back up so that's ok.

"Replace just your external SATA cables with TypeA to eSATA"

seems simple enough, any reason not to?

Thanks alot

What are you recommending for start up drives these days (MacProp octo)?

I can get a new WD 150 GB velociraptor for <$150...

ricks
07-20-2009, 10:17 AM
No purpose in the Velociraptor. Well, maybe in a HUGE server array where the possible power savings outweigh the high cost per GB of the drive. The Seagate Barracuda is faster, bigger and cheaper since it has 3.5 inch platter. The 2.5 inch platter on the Velociraptor takes it out of consideration for me.

The Lycom 2 port card is virtually identical to the firmtek card, it just happens to be a generic card that we can sell for less money. All 2 port cards are basically the same capabilities - they are limited to around 150 MB/sec by both their inexpensive chipsets and their being a single lane card. They all work fine for backup purposes.

Rick

stevez
07-20-2009, 10:33 AM
2.5?
in a 3.5" drive box?
I dont need GB, just fast OX start disk, 5 year warranty


which makes me ponder WD caviar Black 500 MB $65.00, or... ?



"Lycom eSATA 2 Port PCIe Host Card"
150 MB/sec

What other speeds can folks get?

ricks
07-20-2009, 11:55 AM
ALL the 2 port cards are limited to around 150 MB/sec, maybe 160. That is still faster than any hard drive, fastest drives today are still topping out mechanically at around 130 MB/sec. Only time you see more speed is when communicating with more than a single drive, like in a RAID or in a system that accesses several drives for audio files. That kind of thing.

4 port cards like the Lycom or the Sonnet are capable of over a GB/sec of total throughput. Again, you have to have a bunch of drives attached to even begin to task the card at that kind of level.

The Velociraptor is no faster, in most ways, than the Seagate 7200.12 drives are. The 3.5 inch platter on a Seagate is moving faster past the heads on a larger portion of the platter than the 2.5 inch platter can. Plain physics, even the faster RPM cannot make up for the teeny platter size.

Here's a picture of the Velociraptor with the cover off it. It is a 2.5 inch laptop drive with a heatsink/adapter to allow it to sit in place of a 3.5 inch drive. The other issue with the Velociraptor is, at least in the ones I have seen, that the connector is in the middle of the drive when sitting in the adaptor. That is NOT where it is located on true 3.5 inch drives. That means any tray mounted system, like those of the G5 and MacPro, will not line up and connect.

http://www.our-picks.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/western_digital_velociraptor.jpg

stevez
07-20-2009, 03:44 PM
Gotcha, thanks a lot.
Do you remember when I got that Burly Box, way back in the beginning of G5's, and folks had not even made plug and play boxes and bays, etc.
Do you remember how the Seagate drives would not play? We had to replace with Hitachi which still run nicely.

ricks
07-20-2009, 03:58 PM
Problem with your setup was the Intel SATAI chipset on the Firmtek card. Main reason we had to drop that card for newer ones is it would not work right with newer drives. It was the only game in town and was fine with SATAI drives. That Intel chipset is probably as close to the earliest SATA chipset ever designed. And back then the SATA specification was a rapidly changing moving target. We never had as much trouble with another host card as we did with that one. I do NOT miss the Seritek1VE4 one little bit.

stevez
07-28-2009, 10:14 AM
OK, what do I need with that Lycom 2 port PCI-e card?
I have the old burly box that ran to G5.
Which cables? Is one pair enough or do I need some internals?

Running SATA drives to Mac Pro octo. Thanks

ricks
07-28-2009, 10:54 AM
Your choice.

You can either get TypeA to eSATA external cables and call it good.

Or you can get eSATA to eSATA external cables and new internal cables with eSATA on the outside. This would bring your setup into spec with all eSATA connectors. It will work fine either way though.

Rick

stevez
07-28-2009, 05:21 PM
OK I Made that order, so I hope those cables go into the ports of the old box ok. thanks

you are free to hold that up if i have made a mistake

stevez
08-04-2009, 11:32 AM
OK I'm good, but later I noticed this on Mac Pro Octo:

Slots 1 and 2 are x16, PCI Express 2.0 slots
Slots 3 and 4 are x4, PCI Express 2.0 slots
All four slots support 16-lane cards.

I put the Lycom 2 port PCI-e card in slot #3.
Any advantage slot 2?

Thanks...

ricks
08-04-2009, 10:47 PM
card won't work right in slot 2. Leave it in 3 or 4. Besides, it is an 8 lane card. Can't give more than that.

R

stevez
12-23-2009, 02:12 PM
So after all, it has become apparent that this card SeriTek/2SE2-E will NOT create a bootable drive on a MacPro, says firmteck to me. So what should I do?

ricks
12-23-2009, 04:02 PM
No reason that you cannot use it to make a system backup. Move the drive inside and you can boot to the drive. The card itself if driver based won't mount the drives until the drivers are loaded, as such cannot be booted to. No reason the card cannot make a viable System backup though.

Rick

stevez
12-23-2009, 10:33 PM
do you have any idea how fast 2 of the eSATA drives in striped RAID thru that card would behave vs. 2 internal drives striped RAID Mac octo 2.26. Just approx or theoretically, cuz i know there are other factors.

ricks
12-23-2009, 11:08 PM
pretty much identical. The mechanical speed of the drives is the more important factor.

stevez
12-24-2009, 11:51 AM
thanks,

is the term "bus speed" what is relevant here?
Is the simple comparison of bus speeds all I need to know to answer this myself? Where can I look up the bus speed for the eSATA & the..., ok
i'm stuck. How do I learn the speed that my macpro octo 2.23 internal drives can pump data? Is the term "read/write speed" actually interchangeable here?
I understand drive speed and things are a factor too, tho I presume relatively less? hmm, Suddenly maybe I'm asking too many questions for Xmas eve. Or if you know a tutorial you can just send me there perhaps?

All the best...

ricks
12-24-2009, 10:35 PM
Bus speed is meaningless.

Mechanically, drives are still slower than SATAI bus speeds. You get around that by creating a RAID, which add together the mechanical speed of the drives.

Internal SATA and external SATA are the same thing. External SATA uses a different connector is all. And external SATA also may have some extra capabilities like hotplugging.

Rick

stevez
05-25-2010, 12:55 PM
No reason that you cannot use it to make a system backup. Move the drive inside and you can boot to the drive. The card itself if driver based won't mount the drives until the drivers are loaded, as such cannot be booted to. No reason the card cannot make a viable System backup though.

Rick

reminder: SeriTek/2Se2-E
I've been having trouble with firmtek drivers. Intent was to use it for Time Machine back up and it did work in 32-bit mode. But since trying the 64 bit driver, I've actually had kernel panics, tho when fixed by firmtek procedures, there have been lingering misbehaviors unlike ever prior. Is there any alternative? The firmtek guy insists he has the same card and drivers for his successful operation on OSX.6 and says I should reinstall os which is really too time consuming. Thanks !

ricks
05-25-2010, 02:38 PM
I am the wrong person to ask about Firmtek cards. I have literally not looked at a Firmtek card in three years. I have not the slightest idea what works or doesn't work with them any longer.

With all things in working condition, there is no reason you cannot make a Time Machine or bootable backup to an external drive. Know that 'Time Machine' and 'bootable backup' are two very different things.

I just don't have a clue as to what any problems would be with your Firmtek cards.

Rick

stevez
10-26-2010, 09:14 PM
Now I am taking out of the eSATA burly box my Hitachi Deskstar 250's and inserting WD Caviar Black 650's. Trouble is, the deskstars had a big 4 pin connector for the power supply, and the WD's do not. Yet they work. What now?

iStat shows voltages and current at that PCI/e slot, but 0.00 Watts of power.

As always, thanks for your help !

Damien
10-27-2010, 04:17 AM
You need an SATA-Y power adapter cable as shown on this page

SATA Cables (http://www.macgurus.com/productpages/sata/SATACables.php)

That's a cheap and easy fix

stevez
10-28-2010, 01:18 PM
I have MC2110. I guess what fools me is the wires from the power supply, where the MC2110 plugs in, has a white 4 pin molex dangling off which used to be plugged into previous drives. Current drives have no fitting for white 4 pin molex. Everything works. Do I need to know something? Thanks.

Damien
10-28-2010, 05:18 PM
If everything works then no. You need nothing. Extra molex connectors are common and will hang from the PSU and sometimes hang from the drive connector as well if they are 'chained' together.

stevez
12-01-2011, 03:46 PM
ugh, now I see this firmtek card SeriTek/2Se2-E
denies capability for a bootable volume, AArgh.
What should I do please?

Mac Pro Octo 2.26
OSX.7.2

ricks
12-01-2011, 03:52 PM
You can make a bootable copy to an external drive on any SATA card.. You cannot boot to that drive without moving said clone drive to an internal drive bus. That is because any host card that requires a driver won't mount until after the OS loads - the OS containing said driver.

Rick