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levelbest
12-19-2007, 02:19 PM
Hi folks. Updating my switch to the DP 1.25 MDD. I ignored the old 1 Gig SP MDD for a while. Then I picked up a couple of free monitors and started playing heavily with the terminal, daring to try unix scripting and generally daring to go where I have not gone before so I thought I would fire the old Mac up again.

But now it wont start up. It used to work fine. And then I swapped memory back and forth, finally getting faster than 2100 memory to fill out the 1.25 DP. I also kept the ATI 9000 card on the 1.25 and left the GeForce in the old machine. Then I pulled the DVD burners and stuck both in the 1.25. Should be, everything is fine, but it isn't that way. The 1.25 is content but the 1.0, no go. I am posting this here, in case one of your experts has a feeling for what might be happening here.

I have tried starting it with the door open, and closed. I have tried it with the memory out, swapping in each stick. I have tried swapping back the video cards. I have tried different drives including a drive that boots fine in the 1.25. I have tried it with a Bootable DiskWarriour CD in the drive while holding the C key, unplugging an optical drive, and trying every special key combination I can remember. I have tried it with an external drive plugged in and trying to get it to select a drive, but I can't get that far in the boot process. It is doing the same thing no matter what.

SYMPTOM: I press the front panel power button. It starts up the fan and begins the boot process. About 1 to 2 seconds later, it just shuts off. With the door open I can see a red light flash before it quits, there beside the memory banks. This acts like what I did when I tried booting the 1.25 with the slower memory of the 1, when I was just testing everything out. But al the ram is Crucial and it wouldn't all die at once so, what gives here?

I really have no more hope for this machine other than really learning to hack in the terminal, maybe learning a biot more about ruby and python or turning the thing into a server or an itunes juke box. I was even imagining at some point I might gut her and do the hackintosh thing. It's kind of fun to play when you have no care if you wreck the thing.

Any ideas on what to check to see why it used to start, but now it wont?

Mucho thanks. lb

M.Brane
12-19-2007, 03:52 PM
PMU reset?

Just thinking out loud since you didn't mention doing that.

levelbest
12-19-2007, 03:53 PM
If you mean the little silver button on the MOBO, and I am pretty sure you do, yes, I did that also.

Nicolas
12-19-2007, 04:28 PM
MDDs are very picky with RAM. Try only one stick at a time.

Next thing I would try is doing another PMU reset with all the PCI cards pulled (if youhave installed some).

If it starts up hold down apple+alt+o+f at the OF-prompt type in:
reset-nvram
set-defaults
reset-all

Then it should restart.

Last thing to try (if non of the above works) is to remove all the RAM and start it now it should beep 3 times, pull the cord and reinstall one RAM stick only and try again.

levelbest
12-19-2007, 04:35 PM
No PCI cards installed so, non of that would work. I will try the no memory sticks method reboot and see if I get the beeping error and see what happens next.

I haven't tried putting the faster 1.25 sticks in there to test but I would hate to mess up two machines. The 1.0 is meaningless, the 1.25 substantially less so.

lb

levelbest
12-19-2007, 04:48 PM
The only "odd" thing I can think of, just in case is, what about the optical drives? Will this machine boot with no Optical drives on it?


<B>ADDED:</B> I am only asking to see if eliminating the optical drives as a trouble shooting step to isolate the problem, would help - or harm the situation? AFAIK they work fine, or did once.

And, I never got around to fixing it it, and I seriously doubt it became the problem but as long as I am trouble shooting for real, can someone tell me the name or the ribbon cable that attaches the data between the MOBO and the two optical drives?

Long ago after installing my first DVD burner I very foolishly shut the machine before I Secured that ribbon cable. It is frayed where the heat sink sliced by it when I closed the door. It left some wires exposed. I actually have used it ever since with a bit of duct tape over the tear (1001 uses, now 1002). I suppose it could have gone bad, or at least that is the first thing I will try after starting with no sicks and seeing if that does it.

Hopefully I can grab that part cheap at a PC supplier if I knew what it was called and the length.

I just cant think of anything else though. The startup phase is really quick, not time for key commands. It seems to be a direct fault of a short or not reading memory or recognizing hardware, somehow.

- lb

Nicolas
12-19-2007, 05:15 PM
No PCI cards installed so, non of that would work. I will try the no memory sticks method reboot and see if I get the beeping error and see what happens next.

I haven't tried putting the faster 1.25 sticks in there to test but I would hate to mess up two machines. The 1.0 is meaningless, the 1.25 substantially less so.

lb

The OF-reset should been done if any hardwarechanges happened to a Mac ;)

levelbest
12-19-2007, 05:19 PM
No problem, I will be happy to do that, IF, I can get beyond the two second boot up and shut down process. Writing this on the road and will have to check in an hour or so.

Right now there is no way to get the keyboards attention.

lb

Nicolas
12-20-2007, 01:07 PM
Sad news :(

You had the chance to try with No RAM installed?

levelbest
12-20-2007, 01:40 PM
(In my best Scottish Brogue)
Aye Captain, she's dead in the water, If we had some dilithium crystals perhaps we could fix her. But I don't know where you going to find dilithium crystals in the 21st century?!! The old girl needs repairs beyond wha aye kin do hearrr,

OK, star tripping aside, yeas, tried it without any memory, same result.
I also tried it with one of the newer sticks from the other machine, same results. Resetting the switch every time too. Seems like the memory banks are not being read anymore. Any idea where that could get disconnected? I cant very well test the sticks in the other mac as it wont run the slower, non DP sticks.

IF I hold the power button through out the start (keep holding it) I get a loud high, long beep before it shuts down. That takes a little longer but it still isn't giving any love to the keyboard.

This was working fine and I just cant see what I did to get it into this state. If you can think of something, no matter how bizzar, I can try it out.

Was thinking of getting some sage and smudging it for bad juju - kidding (maybe) :-)

Thanks. lb

Nicolas
12-20-2007, 03:29 PM
Well, I do have some strange ideas ;)

Remove the all pci cards, also AGP videocard, remove all the RAM, disconnect all drives from the Logicboard, remove the modem card if it has one installed.

Plug in the power cord, hit the PMU reset switch ONE time for at least 3 sec.

Power it up one time. If it beeps like hell, pull out the power cord.

Reinstall one known as good RAM stick in the slot nearest the CPU.
Reinstall the video be sure that it it seated correctly.

Plug in the power cord, hit the PMU reset switch ONE time for at least 3 sec.

Power the Mac up once more see what happens.

BTW do you have a replacement PSU (Power Suply Unit) from the exchange program? Or does your Mac already has the new PSU in it?

Sorry for the inconvenience...
If all the above won't work out, we have to "dig" even more hope this is ok for you but, we'll find the root of all this but from now on it's pretty much try and error :(

Regards

Nicolas

unclemac
12-20-2007, 05:16 PM
For the voodoo reset Nic ran through above, I thought there was one other step. From a couple old threads:

Remove ram.
remove power cord.
remove battery.
Reset cuda/ PMU
push pwr button.
insert pwr cord and boot yes without ram if you get the no ram beeps you should be good to go hold power till it shuts off
put ram back in.
put battery back in
hit Cuda

Boot normally

Props to Greentree_UK for this trick I hope it works for you (It did for me when all else failed)

levelbest
12-20-2007, 05:32 PM
OK, no luck there. I unplugged everything form the MOBO. I Pressed the button for the three seconds while plugged in. I hit the power again. I got the same short startup and shut down again. I installed a single memory stick, closest to the processor. I hit the reset button again. I hit the powerup button on the MDD front panel again. Same short start up/shutdown cycle.

I also decide after all that to take off the heat sink. I did that once before to look at the processor, just curious, and I thought that perhaps I bumped something? Tried starting it with the heat sink off with no difference.

Any other ideas? - lb

levelbest
12-20-2007, 05:42 PM
I just retried using UNCLEMAC's suggestion, no change.

Nicolas
12-20-2007, 06:22 PM
I also decide after all that to take off the heat sink. I did that once before to look at the processor, just curious, and I thought that perhaps I bumped something? Tried starting it with the heat sink off with no difference.

Any other ideas? - lb
Could be a gone bad front panel board (had that on my MDD as well) it is the panel in the back of the power button. If it is that one its pretty cheap to replace about $60 nothing compared to a new CPU.


By now I have now idea...
the Mac should beep like berserk without everything...


Regards

Nicolas

levelbest
12-20-2007, 07:07 PM
I know, I appreciate the thoughts. If you come up with an idea later, chime in again? Since I got that DP 1.25 for $100 and since there is just no decent upgrade path (IMHO) for this beastie, I am just about to send it to scrap. Although likely it will sit in a back corner of my basement till I really get motivated to toss it. I can't see spending more cash on it though. Maybe that ribbon cable just to see how the machine takes its self apart.

It just bothers me that I usually have a sense about things and I cannot get a clear idea of what is wrong on this machine. It was working just fine before I put it away, AFIK. Before we drop this all together (for now) can you (or anyone else) verify what I must have to test some validation start up steps, and if missing will cause more problems? I want to double check my trouble shooting steps. Every answer will help me.

(Assuming it is otherwise healthy) will the mac boot --->
<b>yes - no</b> Without a video card in any slot?
<b>yes - no</b> Without an internal hard disk hooked up?
<b>yes - no</b> With the Optical drives detached at the MOBO?
<b>yes - no</b> With an external bootable FireWire drive - with and without an internal drive?
<b>yes - no</b> Without a keyboard or the right keyboard (repatterened the other mac to use an IBM keyboard and I cant remember if I did that on this one also)

I would say that this MDD is a beauty to look at - maybe the prettiest Mac ever. Although I have long felt frustrated that it is just so fidgety to upgrade. If I spend any money on it, I will probably think about a long term hackintosh solution. Although apparently the MDD comes in less than stellar again in that PC boards must be smaller to fit in the pretty case. There are online posts of some smaller PC MOBOs that will fit, but if I spend $$$ on a genuine HM (Hackedmac), it would make better sense to go all the way; I should think. The main point of this machine is learning from it, I already have a working Mac of the same period. Next step is to greatly increase speed - not likely with this machine.

- lb