View Full Version : Mac Pro

08-08-2006, 05:57 AM
Thought I would throw some stuff into this thread on the new Mac Pro.

www.apple.com/macpro/ (http://www.apple.com/macpro/)

Dual-Core Intel Xeon Processor
Ushering in a new era of outstanding performance and completing the Mac transition to Intel processors at the same time the new Mac Pro introduces the 64-bit Dual-Core Intel Xeon Woodcrest processor to the Mac lineup. Running at up to 3GHz, its a state-of-the-art processor that from day one makes the Mac Pro one of the fastest desktop computers on the planet.

Quad Core. Up to 3GHz.
Every Mac Pro in the lineup features two of the newest Dual-Core Intel Xeon processors. Two dual-cores. One powerful quad workstation. And you get to decide how fast it flies: 2GHz, 2.66GHz, or 3GHz. And at 3GHz, the Mac Pro runs up to 2x faster than the Power Mac G5 Quad.(1)

OEM Intel Xeon 5160 Woodcrest 1333MHz FSB 2 x 2MB L2 Cache Socket 771 Processor - $917 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819117100)

The Mac Pro ships with Mac OS X 10.4.7
The value of the computer model machine identifier string is MacPro1,1.
The Xeon processors are socketed, using dual 771 pin LGA sockets.
This means that the processors may be upgradeable
Airport antennae are located on the bottom of the machine, covered by plastic.

The Mac Pro is the first Intel-based Mac to have an Intel-native version of Mac OS X 10.4.x Server available as a custom option.

And, because it is socket cpu, and uses a bus multiplier, the future could be "interesting." Woodcrest Xeon cpu with the Clovertown Xeon cpu expected to be available next quarter.

PCI Express Architecture

The Mac Pro has four internal, 2.5 GHz, PCI Express links connected to the North Bridge IC and South Bridge IC. The PCI Express slots are system and user configurable. The Mac Pros standard configuration is one 16-lane, double-wide graphics slot, two 4-lane expansion slots, and one 1-lane expansion slot.

For information on PCI Express and the configuration options, refer to PCI Developer Note (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Conceptual/HWtech_PCI/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40003027).

Mac Pro Developer Note (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/Mac_Pro_0608/index.html) (preliminary)
Mac Pro Schematics (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/Mac_Pro_0608/Articles/M43_0906_arch.html)

Mac Pro Do It Yourself Manuals

ComputerWorld: Why IT loves the Mac Pro / Xserve (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9002267)
MacIntouch: Preliminary Review & Tests (http://www.macintouch.com/reviews/macpro/prelim.html)
AnnadTech reviews Mac Pro (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2811&p=5)
Ars Review (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macpro.ars/)

08-08-2006, 10:55 AM
That ECC buffered RAM is interesting to find. The RAM Lab is playing hell locating a good source, at least so far. HOpefully they have something on the way in a couple of days for us to test. Rare stuff still.

Well ECC is a good thing for Servers but for a workstation :rolleyes:

1. They are slower than "normal" RAM
2. They cost twice or more than normal RAM

A better solution would be like they did on the Quad G5y which can use both so you can decide on your own.



08-08-2006, 02:45 PM
We were unable to access Apple Hardware Test, until we pored through the manual and found that it must be invoked via the "D" key and not by holding down the Option key at startup, as before. (Yet another change in the secret key combinations for critical functions, helping to keep professional Apple technicians in business. At least it's documented!)

08-08-2006, 02:48 PM
The hard drive system worked fine, and we're thrilled to have four internal bays.

Four drive "sleds" are included, each with the necessary screws for attaching a SATA drive. The 250GB Seagate 7200.9 drive included with the computer had SATA-only power connections, while a 80GB Maxtor SATA drive from our Power Mac G5/1.8 had both SATA and traditional power connections, but it, too, fit into the supplied sockets when the sled was pushed into place.
Serial ATA Drive Interface

The Mac Pro comes standard with one 7200 rpm, 3 Gbps Serial ATA (SATA) disk drive and three additional 3 Gbps SATA slots for adding hard disk drives. The SATA drives interface through an AHCI 1.1 controller that supports advanced SATA-II features Native Command Queuing (NCQ) and PHY power management. NCQ increases performance on random workloads by allowing the drive to re-order commands to reduce seek time and increase transactional efficiency.

In addition, the Mac Pro has two unpopulated 3 Gbps SATA buses for expansion. Looking at System Profiler, all 6 SATA busses seem to be active :)

For more information on SATA, see Serial ATA International Organization (http://www.serialata.org/).
For information on the AHCI controller, see AHCI Specifications (http://www.intel.com/technology/serialata/ahci.htm).
Ultra ATA Interface

In the Mac Pro, the South Bridge controller provides two Ultra ATA/100 interfaces for optical drives. The Mac Pro comes standard with one SuperDrive. The drive can read and write DVD media and CD media, as shown in Table 1 (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/Mac_Pro_0608/Articles/M43_0906_arch.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40004479-SW4).
FireWire Controller

The Mac Pro has two IEEE-1394a FireWire 400 ports, which support transfer rates of 100, 200, and 400 Mbps and two IEEE-1394b FireWire 800 ports, which support transfer rates of 100, 200, 400, and 800 Mbps. For more information, see FireWire Developer Note (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/HWTech_FireWire/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40003028).
Block Diagram Note: For additional information and a link to specific documentation regarding PCI Express and the interface to the AirPort Express module, refer to PCI Express Architecture (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/Mac_Pro_0608/Articles/M43_0906_arch.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40004479-TPXREF110).
Mac Pro: DIY (http://www.apple.com/support/manuals/macpro_diy/) - Do It Yourself Upgrades

08-08-2006, 06:10 PM
The Apple site notes that you can install 4 500G drives internally and stripe them RAID 0 to get 2T of storage. I had understood, perhaps incorrectly, that one should not RAID a startup drive, especially RAID 0, because of the possibility of failure. Could someone shed some light on how one might configure the internal drives to get maximum storage?


08-09-2006, 02:55 AM
Pictures from the Mac Pro innerts (CPUs, etc)


:dance: :dance: :dance:

08-11-2006, 03:12 AM
The test results from Barefeats (http://www.barefeats.com/quad07.html) don't look good.

08-11-2006, 03:50 AM
Reviews from the web:

ComputerWorld: Why IT loves the Mac Pro / Xserve (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9002267)
MacIntouch: Preliminary Review & Tests (http://www.macintouch.com/reviews/macpro/prelim.html)
AnadTech reviews Mac Pro (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2811&p=5)
AnandTech's "Apple Mac Pro - PowerMac Successor" (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816)
Ars Review (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macpro.ars/)


Mac Pro vs G5 Photoshop test (http://www.chaddahlquist.net/2006/08/11/19/)
Barefeats: Quad Intel vs Quad PPC (http://www.barefeats.com/quad06.html)

08-11-2006, 07:44 AM
AccelerateYourMac feedback from Crucial on FB-DIMM heat spreaders:

Crucial's comments on Mac Pro RAM (why listings were pulled, future plans) - As I mentioned yesterday I wrote a Micron (Crucial) contact to ask about why they no longer listed Mac Pro compatible FB-Dimms. (I.E. Were they going to offer them later and were they pulled due to their own tests or due to Apple's heatsink notes.)

Here's the reply:

" Hi Mike,
We've been experiencing an inconsistency with the current heat spreaders on our Mac 1GB FB-DIMM modules after extended use. We're currently working on a redesign of our heat shield due to these thermal issues and will be releasing a revised part at a later point in time. As you can imagine, we've been working closely with Apple and value our good relationship with them. Although our parts electrically meet the specifications of the Mac Pro systems, their custom cooling solution incorporates additional thermal characteristics that require less cooling than the standard FBDIMM heat spreaders. We are in discussions with Apple to ensure our upcoming cooling solution for the Mac Pro line of computers is inline with Apple's approved standards. Be assured we will offer a complete product line once we have their approval.
Thanks, Kelly

08-11-2006, 09:48 AM
Reviews from the web:

ComputerWorld: Why IT loves the Mac Pro / Xserve (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9002267)
MacIntouch: Preliminary Review & Tests (http://www.macintouch.com/reviews/macpro/prelim.html)
AnnadTech reviews Mac Pro (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2811&p=5)
Ars Review (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macpro.ars/)
Some of those tests are really painfull!

One of my favorite on DV>MPEG4

PM Dual 2GHz = 27 Sekunden

MP Quad 3GHz = 37 Sekunden

iMac G5 = 37 Sekunden

Ladies ands Gents, the new Intel Quad as fast as the iMac G5 we did a great job huh LMAO :D

A Dual G5 beats a Quad Intel at least in one area which I thought the Intel would let the G5 back in its dust.

And YES this is WITH UB software ;)

Also those C4D benches are a pain with 1GHz more speed only 7% faster :rolleyes:

08-13-2006, 12:37 PM
A Basic Guide for Migrating to Intel-Macs

If you are migrating a PowerPC system (G3, G4, or G5) to an Intel-Mac be careful what you migrate. Keep in mind that some items that may get transferred will not work on Intel machines and may end up causing your computer's operating system to malfunction.

Rosetta supports "software that runs on the PowerPC G3 or G4 processor that are built for Mac OS X". This excludes the items that are not universal binaries or simply will not work in Rosetta:

Classic Environment, and subsequently any Mac OS 9 or earlier applications
Screensavers written for the PowerPC
System Preference add-ons
All Unsanity Haxies
Browser and other plug-ins
Contextual Menu Items
Applications which specifically require the PowerPC G5
Kernel extensions
Java applications with JNI (PowerPC) libraries
What Can Be Translated by Rosetta (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/universal_binary/universal_binary_exec_a/chapter_7_section_2.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40002217-CH210-BCICICJH).

In addition to the above you could also have problems with migrated cache files and/or cache files containing code that is incompatible.

If you migrate a user folder that contains any of these items, you may find that your Intel-Mac is malfunctioning. It would be wise to take care when migrating your systems from a PowerPC platform to an Intel-Mac platform to assure that you do not migrate these incompatible items.

If you have problems with applications not working, then completely uninstall said application and reinstall it from scratch. Take great care with Java applications and Java-based Peer-to-Peer applications. Many Java apps will not work on Intel-Macs as they are currently compiled. As of this time Limewire, Cabos, and Acquisition are available as universal binaries.

Do not install browser plug-ins such as Flash or Shockwave from downloaded installers. These versions are not universal binaries and will not work on Intel-Macs. The version of OS X installed on your Intel-Mac comes with special compatible versions of Flash and Shockwave plug-ins for use with your browser.

The same problem will exist for any hardware drivers such as mouse software unless the drivers have been compiled as universal binaries. For third-party mice the only current choice is USB Overdrive. Contact the developer or manufacturer of your third-party mouse software to find out when a universal binary version will be available.

Also be careful with some backup utilities and third-party disk repair utilities. Disk Warrior (does not work), TechTool Pro (does not work), SuperDuper (newest release works), and Drive Genius (untested) may not work properly on Intel-Macs. The same caution may apply to the many "maintenance" utilities that have not yet been converted to universal binaries.

MacFixit's Rosetta Compatibility Index (http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20060126094146180).

Additional links:

Intel In Macs (http://www.apple.com/intel/)
Apple Guide to Universal Applications (http://guide.apple.com/universal/)
MacInTouch List of Compatible Universal Binaries (http://www.macintouch.com/imacintel/ubinaries.html)
MacInTouch List of Rosetta Compatible Applications (http://www.macintouch.com/imacintel/rosettacompat.html)
MacUpdate List of Intel-Compatible Software (http://www.macupdate.com/macintel.php)

08-14-2006, 11:35 AM
Thread on Apple Mac Pro Discussions (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=596874) on drivers for running Windows.

- looks like you might want a PATA drive while SATA performance gets worked out.

08-17-2006, 08:53 AM
As more people get their Mac Pro, and are able to upgrade to 6GB RAM, it seems that a 3GHz system can go head to head running Photoshop.

Rosetta it seems probably needs 2GB for apps like CS2, and another 4GB for Photoshop.

Quad 3GHz Mac Pro vs Quad 2.5GHz PowerMac
results for both the 2.66GHz and 3.0GHz Mac Pro

There's no doubt that both versions of the Mac Pro are faster than the G5 Quad-Core running Universal Binary apps like iMovie, Final Cut Pro, etc. As you can see from the four UB tests we ran in this session, the Mac Pro 2.66GHz was as much as 62% faster than the Quad-Core G5/2.5GHz. The Mac Pro 3.0GHz was as much as 85% faster. - Barefeats: Quad06 (http://www.barefeats.com/quad06.html)

The top-end Mac Pro performed well compared to the Quad G5 with both Photoshop CS2 and After Effects 7.0 despite running under Rosetta emulation on the Mac Pro. - MacRumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060816233352.shtml)


08-17-2006, 09:30 AM
As more people get their Mac Pro, and are able to upgrade to 6GB RAM, it seems that a 3GHz system can go head to head running Photoshop.

Rosetta it seems probably needs 2GB for apps like CS2, and another 4GB for Photoshop.

Quad 3GHz Mac Pro vs Quad 2.5GHz PowerMac
results for both the 2.66GHz and 3.0GHz Mac Pro


BUT, RAM prices:
Ouad G5 8GB $1.500 vs. Quad Xeon 8GB $2.500

And those Barefeats results are non that count in my opinion because they benched the "Soft Focus Effect" what about the others?
The G5 strikes back and beats the Xeon so what ;)
If you choose another effect the G5 smokes the Xeon.
I like benches that are running multiple effects or a combination of effects and stuff. Also I can pick 2 FX in PS on which a Dual G4 smokes a Quad G5 ;). This is NOT reputable.

The Quad Xeon is a nice box but, the G5 wasn't that bad compared to the 2.66GHz Xeon and on most Apps the G5 still smokes the Xeon 3.0GHz :)



08-18-2006, 02:42 PM
I think the MacPro is going to be a great machine and has addressed several of the short comings of the G5Quad (internal drives, etc) but I just can't see spending $1500 for 8 gigs of ram, that more than half the price of the machine.

I hope some 3rd parties release some more reasonably priced ram soon, and I hope that someday Apple stops charging a premium for factory ram.

Maybe Apple prices high so they don't get killed by fluctuations in the price of ram, but I would much rather buy a machine factory loaded if it wasn't so outrageously priced! : )


08-18-2006, 03:04 PM
Apple was charging more like others for the iMacIntel.

OWC is using Samsung, always good, often supplies Micron when needed. Did the engineering samples etc for the original G5.

The original price for 2 x 512MB for the G5 (DDR400/PC3200) three yrs ago was in the $500 per GB too. So three yrs ago, $1500 would have bought... 8GB? after all PC3200 is now "old school" and been around for yrs. There was a time when $120/GB was the going price even @ MacGurus, $960. After prices began to drop. And 400MHz vs 667MHz is worh "something."

There are already signs that Ramjet and Kingston and 1-800-Memory are not compatible.

I priced out what I would be spending, came to about what my SE/30 cost me 18 yrs ago! ~$3860 (only this thing lays rubber in all four gears!). The 4 x 4MB upgrade was $1600. Getting 1MB SIMMs for $100 finally was a real break-through in '89. :D

08-18-2006, 08:33 PM
Well just ready setting up the Quad Xeon.
I have to say the Finder is more "snappy" than on the Quad G5, but after installing the same Dashboard stuff it is equal :)

Installed now:
4x 250GB Seagate ST3250624NS Drives
2x SDrive

Just running some PS benches (a selfmade script which is doing some colorcorrections, colorspace changes, adds some shadows, resizes the image, apply some filters and finally a composing, file size 0.8GB in PS).

Lets see how fast the beast really is ;)

BTW just heard this from a friend using a Quad G5 and Logic. "There is NO Quad G5 support in Logic only two cores are running so Apples benches are a fake. New Quad Xeons have Quad core support!"
Boomer huh?



08-19-2006, 03:41 AM
From my reading it sounds like programs like CS2 Photoshop that Rosetta itself should have 2GB to play with, so 6GB would be the 'sweet spot' for that setup. If they don't use dual core well, will HT and 4 cores be better? :D

PS: Make sur to disable "Put the hard disk(s) to sleep when possible" or performance will be horrid!

08-20-2006, 08:50 AM
Chipkill memory has the ability to correct multi-bit memory errors and in doing so, increases system availability considerably.

How does it actually work?
The fundamentals of Chipkill operations are essentially the same as RAID for disk subsystems.

When writing data to the DIMM, a duplicate set of data in the form of a checksum is written to another part of the memory subsystem. If a memory failure occurs then the data is immediately recovered by re-calculating the data from the checksum information. This procedure allows the system to mask not only the single bit errors that standard ECC memory can correct but also 2,3 & 4 bit errors. In some cases, even a whole DRAM Chip failure. critical applications running longer.

IBM is currently the only major vendor to offer this innovative solution.

IBM Chipkill FB-DIMM DDR2 ECC 667MHz PC2-5300 CL5 (http://www.ibm.com/Search/?q=DDR2+667MHz&v=11&lang=en&cc=us&Search.x=0&Search.y=0&Search=Search)

Description 1GB (2x512MB) PC2-5300 CL5 ECC DDR2 Chipkill FB-DIMM 667MHz
IBM Web Price* $259.00

IBM Web Store (http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=4611686018425211480&storeId=1&langId=-1&catalogId=-840)

Model name 39M5785
Description 2GB (2x1GB) PC2-5300 CL5 ECC DDR2 Chipkill FB-DIMM 667MHz
IBM Web Store (http://www5.pc.ibm.com/ie/products.nsf/$wwwPartNumLookup/_39M5785?OpenDocument&sourcesite=esgie)
Price* $459.00

Compare that to OWC's 2GB kit:

2GB Matched Set (1GB Modules x 2)

- Chipkill was never known for being "affordable" so I would venture to guess IBM should jump in and start offering Apple some chips ;-)

08-22-2006, 07:40 AM
Over the last few days, I have received enough money to cover the purchase of an Intel Mac, and I have placed an order for one. Hopefully we can get AppleJack on its way towards full Intel compatibility soon. Thanks for all your donations and support.

08-23-2006, 09:25 AM
For those considering the Mac Pro coming from 3 yrs or older systems, feedback on AYM today:
I've had the chance now to run some legacy applications under Rosetta, including Adobe CS2. Subjectively speaking, I see literally no performance difference over my dual 1.8.

This could be because of the 44% base clock speed increase moving to 2.66 GHz, and the more efficient processor architecture, but also because multithreading seems so well done, that having other tasks in the background (even finder, window manager, etc.) will effect Photoshop less with four cores than it did with two G5s.

I'm sure someone moving from a quad 2.5GHz G5 would have a totally different perspective than I, but moving from a dual 1.8, I can say that Rosetta performance is right on par with the old G5 on a quad 2.66 Xeon. (I'm sending him a PShop action script he can use for timed tests/comparisons.-Mike)

08-24-2006, 02:20 AM
Article on Mac Pro memory:

The satech.com (aka ramfinder) price for 2GB (1 X 1GB) kit of memory for the MacPro is $439, or $220/GB That’s $1756 for 8GB as compared with $2300 for Apple memory (30% more). They describe it as “factory approved memory”:

This is the same memory product you would buy from your system manufacturer (Apple, Compaq, Dell, HP, IBM, Gateway, Sony and others) directly when you buy the system.

Please see the MacPro memory page at satech.com. Whether the $544 price difference (for 8 X 1GB) is worth it will depend on the personal situation; it is certainly easier to pre-order and have no further work to do.

RAMFinder Mac Pro (http://www.macramfinder.com/apple-mac-memory-apple-mac-pro-memory/apple-mac-pro-quad-core-intel-xeon-memory-ma356ll-a-superdrive/apple-mac-pro-quad-core-intel-xeon-memory-ma356ll-a-superdrive.html)

08-26-2006, 04:14 AM
Some "gottchas" showing up from users:

Some notes on AccelerateYourMac:

HARDWARE TEST: You can not access the hardware test that ships on the install DVD if you have an older keyboard. I happened to be using the Abnple keyboard that shipped with my dual G4/1.25, and holding the "D" key would not let me access the hardware test.

FREEZES: As reported by others, I am experiencing kernel panics, failure to boot, and system freezes. It appears to be a device conflict, probably due to one of my two USB2 hubs.

Also, some front FW ports don't work properly (MacFixit?)


" They screwed up (no pun intended) assembly of some first Mac Pro systems. Under the memory bay, there are 2 screws that have to be removed to slide the memory bay back / out of the way. Those screws go into standoff screws, which themselves screw into the chassis.

They put loctite on the screws going into the standoffs; but NOT on the standoffs where they go into the chassis. Therefore, the standoffs just spin and you can't remove the screws from them without scratching, digging, and gouging your Mac Pro! I think they will be replacing a lot of memory bays when warranty service is performed because of this foul up.

(Asked if the standoffs were hex types/if you could get a wrench/pliers on the side to hold it from turning)

No, there's not enough room really to get in there...

I got a REAL thin pair of needlenose in there, not enough bite to them to hold it unfortunately. Ended up with a straight screwdriver shoved in there to hold it and used a right angle ratchet screwdriver to turn the screw - still stripped one of the screw heads off, happened on both a 2.0 and 2.66 system. "

08-28-2006, 10:56 AM
Is it just me? Got the MP up and running, installed Raptor... this thing makes a loud "hum" and it is high-pitched type.


Duh... I used the old power cord, not the new one with square secure fit. The noise must have been the PSU. Hope that was all my goof did.


08-28-2006, 11:19 AM

August 28, 2006 -- New Photoshop Test Embarrasses the Mac Pro. We tried out the new Photoshop Benchmark (http://www.retouchartists.com/pages/speedtest.html) created by the Retouch Artists. It was carefully crafted to reflect typical actions of a professional Photoshop user. Checkout our findings so far:


08-28-2006, 01:29 PM
I tried cloning the system to a new 74GB 16MB cache. I select to boot from it, go back to System Preference, and it doesn't 'stick.' And won't boot. And yes, I chose the Intel format scheme.

Guess one constant, Apple made more changes when it came to Mac Pro version and 10.4.7 for Intel.

Well, bottom line is you can't boot from SoftRAID 3.5.1 until 10.4.8 comes out on Mac Pro or MacIntels. - Didn't ever see or hear anyone mention this... would have saved me a couple days getting ready.

08-29-2006, 01:48 PM
My Lexmark (Optra 310) laser printer is 7 yrs old but still adequate and 6-10 pages per minute with 34MB. Printing or sending to print rather, an 8 page document would take at least 8-12 seconds, maybe 15-16. Not any longer. Took less than 2 and more like 1 second.

Update: 10.4.8 seems to have killed my Optra310.
Which got me to buy the Lexmark E240. 30 ppm. $169.
Trouble is, it seems to open a bunch of sharing services, or I'm in even worse trouble.

I noticed that Parallels also opens/uses En2 for itself to enable sharing.
I forgot I installed it, but it is also possible that Parallels was modifying my firewall settings??

10-10-2006, 08:01 AM
Maybe I missed it before but the Apple store currently has refurbed 2.66GHz and 3GHz MacPro models for sale. k

Kaye, Saw that mentioned on www.hardmac.com only today, and if you look, there is a 30 day wait before they ship.... so good buys -- for xmas. Best deal looks to be 3GHz model (X1900 XT, 2GB RAM $3300 ($3900 list). Then, add some Gurus memory ($520 for 2GB kit).

10-10-2006, 09:25 AM
I tried cloning the system to a new 74GB 16MB cache. I select to boot from it, go back to System Preference, and it doesn't 'stick.' And won't boot. And yes, I chose the Intel format scheme.

Guess one constant, Apple made more changes when it came to Mac Pro version and 10.4.7 for Intel.

Well, bottom line is you can't boot from SoftRAID 3.5.1 until 10.4.8 comes out on Mac Pro or MacIntels. - Didn't ever see or hear anyone mention this... would have saved me a couple days getting ready.

Not sure it is the same issue, but I just got a 3.5.1 beta that is reported to fix several boot issues, including mine, which is not being able to boot to a mirror running 10.4.6 Server on a G5 Xserve.

10-10-2006, 09:33 AM
There is more information about SoftRAID an MacPro in the Tribe. With the beta version, I can access a RAID for now, but booting will have to wait for 3.6 version (and had to wait for 10.4.8 to have the tools in place).

10-23-2006, 04:01 PM
I am getting really confused about what it takes:
4. Run Windows:
a) Apple Boot Camp plus license for Windows XP Service Pack 2.
b) Parallels
c) Emulation using Rosetta
d) CrossOver Mac, don't need Windows
e) Also see:

Out of all of this, what needs to be installed, several of these or just one?

10-23-2006, 04:50 PM
Pick one. :)

Each has strengths and weaknesses:

Boot Camp is running Win natively, with 100% speed, but running OS X, or XP, one at a time. Not both together. XP only, running native, so all the good and bad of XP. Light on Rresources as whichever OS you boot gets everything you have.

Parrallels is running multiple OSes at the same time. Handy, no rebooting, but slower because the second OS is virtual. Like virtual PC was but better. Let's you run most OSes that can be installed on X86 hardware: XP, 2000, all the way back to DOS, plus Linux and Solaris 10, and more than one at a time. More flexible, and possibly more secure as it runs inside OS X. Also needs more RAM as you run both OSes together, with each wanting a min. of 256 just to run. Probably need well over a gig to run apps OK too.

Crossover lets you runs some Win apps without Windows. Really cool if you need say IE to get into your bank or broker web site because of active X tools or the like. No Windows so no second OS to install, maintain, learn, troubleshoot, patch, or secure. Very simple if it does what you need. Light on resources as you only need extra RAM for the app(s) you need to run on top of all you do with OS X...so it depends on the app.

You ca do all three if you wanted. But that is alot of Win on a Mac. To simplify, I would say:

1. Crossovers if it will get the specific app you need to work. Easiest, and cleanest, and cheap since you don't have to buy a copy of Win.

2. Bootcamp for raw native speed, espcially for a Win game, or other pro app.

3. Parrallels for ultimate flexability of many OSes where only light to normal use is required. Most handy for testing, troubleshooting and the like.

10-23-2006, 05:16 PM
Very helpful Unc. Thanks, I have a relative who just purchased a 20 inch Intel iMac with a bunch of extras, more RAM, more VRAM, more everything. Graduating from a PC and this will help with what his next question will be. k

10-23-2006, 05:27 PM
There is also the option to just run Windows native on its own dedicated disk drive.

The trouble with BootCamp is you have to begin with OS X only single partitioned, then Windows gets the slowest tracks on the drive. Which is why I put Vista on a dedicated 10K Raptor just to see.

If you skip BootCamp, you also can't have OS X drives present.

Parallels takes some tinkering but is the easiest to use. CrossOver has limited support as far as what apps it works with -- but if you needed to run Quicken 2006 for PC, it might be your ticket.

What some want, and probably won't happen - unless there is an OS X Leopard "Pro" edition -- would be to run a guest client OS X side by side -- great for testing or something.

10-23-2006, 06:19 PM
Thanks for the info TZ. Have included that in my info for him. I am also interested for myself, looking at the Mac Pro and I am up around $5300. Going to wait for RAM to come down in price and maybe the next models. k

10-23-2006, 07:05 PM
Anybody complain yet that bootcamp lets you resize your boot partition add a second partion, easy as pie, quick as a wink.......and delete it again if you like at a later date and regain the space....but only lets you make a second partition for Winders??

If we can have that, why the heck can't we simply make and resize Mac partitions on the fly??

Put me down for an official complaint!

11-14-2006, 11:27 AM
A Macworld editor wishing for more drive bays in a Mac pro
http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2006/11/macpro4/index.php k

11-14-2006, 11:41 AM
I’d love to hear them—perhaps I’m missing something obvious. :D

He just got back from vacation in the Caribbean; still getting use to new system.

I have played around with various four drive scenarios, including pulling three so it would return to "silent running."

Give BootCamp the kick, it's a waste (do I really want an OS on the inner 1/3 of a disk drive really?).

Put Leopard on FW800; or, SeriTek PCIe now that it is bootable and supports PM (that should mean 6-10 external drives). External is nice. Turn it off and forget. Safe and won't get in the way.

You could try running Vista and Leopard on SeriTek.

There are people looking for how to get their hands on more drive bay sleds, at $32 each, to be able to swap drives in and out.

11-14-2006, 01:49 PM
Seritek isn't bootable quite yet on the Intel Macs, at least that is what I got from George's last post.


11-15-2006, 07:32 AM
November 13, 2006, 9:01 PM PST
The unofficial eight-core Apple Mac Pro
Posted by: Daniel A. Begun (http://reviews.cnet.com/4532-10921_7-0.html?authorId=1011703&tag=blog)

Eight processing cores working away

CNET Labs might be ahead of Apple's product release cycle, and we likely violated our Mac Pro's warranty, but we just had to see what the Apple Mac Pro (http://reviews.cnet.com/Apple_Mac_Pro/4505-3118_7-32004277.html?tag=txt) could do when populated with a pair of Intel's brand-new, quad-core Xeon 5355 processors.

Today marks Intel's first official day of the quad-core processor era with the release of quad-core processors for enthusiasts (the Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 (http://reviews.cnet.com/Intel_Core_2_Extreme_QX6700/4505-3086_7-32136314.html?tag=txt)) and for servers and workstations (the Intel Xeon 5355)--and Intel was kind enough to supply CNET Labs with a pair of 2.66GHz Xeon 5355 processors.

As the Xeon 5355 is pin-compatible with the Xeon 5160 processors that came installed in our Mac Pro, we proceeded to swap out the two dual-core processors with the new quad-core processors.

We highly advise you not to try this at home! The Mac Pro case is not designed to allow the end user to perform CPU surgery--and we've got the cuts and bruises to prove it.

With the pair of Xeon 5355 processors installed, we booted the system back up and were greeted with eight active processing cores in both the Mac OS and Windows XP via the Boot Camp Public Beta (http://dw.com.com/redir?destUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apple.com%2Fmacosx% 2Fbootcamp%2F&siteId=7&oId=4531-10921_7-6663792&ontId=10921&tag=txt).


07-19-2007, 10:42 AM
This morning Apple has/had a refurb Mac Pro 8-core 3.0GHz Intel Zeon for $3399, 15% off a similar new one at $3997.
Refurbished Mac Pro 8-core 3.0GHz Intel Xeon
Estimated Ship: Within 24 hours
Free Shipping
Two 3.0GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon processors
1GB (2 x 512MB) memory (667MHz DDR2 fully-buffered DIMM ECC)
250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7200-rpm hard drive
16x SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT graphics with 256MB memory
Price: $3,399.00

08-17-2007, 04:34 AM
Refurbished Mac Pro 8-core 3.0GHz Intel Xeon
Two 3.0GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon processors
1GB (2 x 512MB) memory (667MHz DDR2 fully-buffered DIMM ECC)
250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7200-rpm hard drive
16x SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT graphics with 256MB memory

- iLife '08
- iWork '08 30-day trial Learn More (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nplm=G0454LL/A)

Price: $3,399.00
Estimated Ship:
3-5 business days
Free Shipping

08-17-2007, 04:53 PM
do you guys get a comission from Apple for reposting this stuff?

08-18-2007, 03:07 AM

These are rare and a couple people were interested in 8 Core units.

I have a thread in "New Users" devoted to Apple specials. Just a courtesy.

Hell, I don't get anything even from MacGurus, let alone Apple! :D

08-18-2007, 06:36 PM
for working so hard on the Forums!

08-24-2007, 04:48 AM
1600MHz FSB Penryn Xeon for Q4 2007

VR-Zone (http://www.vr-zone.com/articles/1600FSB_Harpertown_To_Counter_Barcelona_In_Q4_'07/5187.html#Scene_1)revealed that Intel will release the high-end 1600MHz FSB Xeon models for Q3 2007.

This will include 3 processors named as follow:
- E5272: Quad Core clocked at 3.4GHz (6MB cache)
- E5462: Quad Core clocked at 2.8GHz (12MB cache)
- E5472: Quad Core clocked at 3.0GHz (12MB cache)

All 1600MHz FSB Quad Core Xeons are announced with a TBD of 80W, and will come along with a new chipset named Seaburg.

Shared caches in the dual-core Penryns will be 6 MB, and quad-core beasties will see a healthy 12 MB of shared cache. The associativity will (most likely) also be 24-way, up from current 16-way implementations for L2 access, a 50% increase.

Intel did tell AnandTech that a 3.2GHz Penryn (with a 1.67GHz FSB) will outperform an existing 3.0GHz Conroe (sitting atop a 1.33GHz FSB) by about 20%. That's about what you would expect from the increase in clock and FSB speeds, however, and that was only on gaming. Some of the biggest performance gains may not be seen in desktop spaces, however, but rather on servers with heavy use of FP.