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Willc73
06-05-2006, 11:22 AM
Hey persons.

Been using a somewhat new system with photoshop CS2 for 7 months. G5 quad, 4 gig ram.
Everything has worked great until I got a Burly PM box and Sonnet e4p card. I have 5 320 gig WD drives occupying all 5 slots. I have raided the top 3 drives together for a fast scratch. I first used Apple raid then I bought Softraid.
Very soon after I start working on an image which is stored on an internal drive not raided. I will get the spinning ball of death. That will stay on until I force quit, however even though it looks like it will force quit, the application actually stays on with a triangle under the icon. I try to force quit again, no luck. The only way I can get out is to hold the power button. This will happen every time. It happened under apple raid and soft raid. I broke apart the raid and if the scratch is on an external disk in the PM box, it will do the same. Nothing is on the drive except for scratch. I seem to be able to save ok.
Any suggestions?

UPDATE:
Can't save when externals are in a raid. I can save when they are split into singles. Neither Softraid nor Apple product works.

TZ
06-05-2006, 11:54 AM
WD - have you checked around to see if there are reports of problems?

StorageReview
Accelerate Your Mac
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Some WD drives are designed for RAID, some for desktop.

You can use each drive with direct connect and leave the other two drives sharing 4th port/channel.

RAID should only have 3 drives on one channel at the most.

Most of us don't have enough experience or to go on, but I know Rick likes Sonnet PM.

Every make of drive (and new versions can be different) while it seems Seagate has got multiple variations of what seems like the same 'Cuda 7200.10.

Might want to fire off an email to support over at softraid. then too, has Sonnet tested and qualified their controller with everything and anything?

Before using any drive, erase the entire drive with zero, then I like to load it with data, do some testing and benchmarking, and only then use it and RAID it, making sure that each drive performs identically, that they all have the same firmware. There has been firmware update which is one reason to avoid a given drive until it is out 4 months or better.

Have your read the PShop Guide? copy the file to the scratch disk to work on? I am not conversent on its use.

I would look in Graphics Studio forum, and try running the new PS Test 2 and pdf guide.

Willc73
06-05-2006, 12:03 PM
Thanks,
Don't know anything about firmware or what drives are made for what. These drives are 1 month old. WDC WD3200KS-00PFB0 V.21.00M21 That is what softraid says anyways.

I have a 5 bay PM box made by MacGurus, I don't think I can run them directly like you suggest. I can save and use as scratch when they are not raided.

I guess I will try reformatting them like you suggest.

wait, just crashed again without raiding them together, I just have one drive set as scratch. bummer. I am not much of a technoguru, I guess I shouldn't have tried to get all fancy with these external drives.
Anyone make a good firewire drive?

Willc73
06-05-2006, 12:21 PM
I was told to post this in Graphics.

Hey persons.

Been using a somewhat new system with photoshop CS2 for 7 months. G5 quad, 4 gig ram.
Everything has worked great until I got a Burly PM box and Sonnet e4p card. I have 5 320 gig WD drives occupying all 5 slots. I have raided the top 3 drives together for a fast scratch. I first used Apple raid then I bought Softraid.
Very soon after I start working on an image which is stored on an internal drive not raided. I will get the spinning ball of death. That will stay on until I force quit, however even though it looks like it will force quit, the application actually stays on with a triangle under the icon. I try to force quit again, no luck. The only way I can get out is to hold the power button. This will happen every time. It happened under apple raid and soft raid. I broke apart the raid and if the scratch is on an external disk in the PM box, it will do the same. Nothing is on the drive except for scratch. I seem to be able to save ok.
Any suggestions?

UPDATE:
Can't save when externals are in a raid. I can save when they are split into singles. Neither Softraid nor Apple product works.

TZ
06-05-2006, 12:38 PM
I didn't say to ask again, only to LOOK in the Graphics Studio. And because we are small BBS forum, there is no need to double-post a question, I think most forum members check the "Today's Active Threads" link to see what is new anyway.

There were problems in the past with WD drives. And WDC has Knowledge Base that is pretty good though they have yet to address the WD Raptor in G5 Quad question properly ;-(

StorageReview forum is pretty good, very tech savvy group, PC-oriented mostly. Lots of nuts and bolts stuff.

Every disk drive really needs to be tested, qualified, and finally certified to work with a controller and operating system. And SATA is changing - on a monthly basis.

I don't think 'Gurus sell or include those drives in pre-built RAID, the only WD drive was Raptor that is carried.

There have been firmware updates to improve RAID performance, and to work with specific RAID 5 controllers. It isn't just Macs that can have problems.

Google search result on WD3200KS (http://www.google.com/search?q=WD3200KS-00PFB0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official)

ricks
06-05-2006, 12:53 PM
We just got in some WD Caviar SE drives to run some tests. Those tests are just now starting. Both Sonnet and MacGurus did no testing with WD drives at all except for Raptors. Several people in the last couple of weeks have reported various issues using WD drives. All we can do is run some tests and see what we can determine. Brian has the drives on the test bench as we type.

Rick

Willc73
06-05-2006, 12:59 PM
Sorry for the double post.
I have posted questions to Sonnet and WD.
Sonnet had very good things to say about you.

TZ
06-05-2006, 01:09 PM
I guess I shouldn't have tried to get all fancy with these external drives.
Anyone make a good firewire drive?

ATA and especially FW is not going to solve or be a good or simple solution. FW800 RAID on G5 is not something for Apple to tout or be proud of.

It is that drives aren't just plug and play. SCSI had its own problems. But sometimes, if you want the best, there is nothing quite like it, but the cost per GB is 5x higher.
______________

Looks like things are moving along. I just read through how really really bad these drives work in 64-bit XP systems that I came across while googling. Something about "no driver support currently."

Sometimes firmware on a controller can work around a drive issue, sometimes in the past OS 9 era a driver would be able to (like SoftRAID 2.x), and sometimes the vendor issues firmware update for the drive. Even 10.4.6 has added support for some drives that 10.4.5 lacked.

Willc73
06-05-2006, 01:44 PM
I put a Seagate 250gig into one of the bays and unmounted all the WD drives. The seagate seems to work great.

Willc73
06-09-2006, 02:47 PM
Ok,
Switched all my drives to Hitachi 250gigs. The bay seems to be doing well now. I purchased a 3 bay sata from a guy on the forum. I put 3 74 gig raptors in it.
My boot drive is a 150 raptor
my second drive is a 74 raptor
3 external Sata 74 raptors.
That makes a raptor scratch, I clocked that at 297 mb/sec empty. Not sure if that is correct, seems too fast.

My 5 bay has 5 hitachi 250gigs. 1 & 2 are archive only duplicates but not mirror.
Bay 5 is a capture drive that gets daily backus to bay 4. Bay 3 is for finished projects not yet archived.

ricks
06-09-2006, 05:52 PM
Sounds right to me.

Whooof that is a HOT setup!

Willc73
06-12-2006, 12:39 PM
Ok, everything is working well.
Except I have a question about load and save times for tiff files. I have my new Scratch disk which is a 80gb partition of 4 74gb raptors. The rest of the drives I have named "quicksave", which I use to work off of then back up to two other single drives.
I use Disk Speed Bench X and it shows the raid as a very fast 300mb/sec.
However I timed loading and saving (by hand) a 700mb tiff file to the quicksave disk and to a single 250gb hitachi.
I did this because I noticed how long it was taking to load that image from quicksave, about 4 minutes. It turns out that it takes the same amount of time whether I save to quicksave or 250hitachi. Same with loading.

Weird.....

TZ
06-12-2006, 12:59 PM
Do you copy the file you are about to work on to the scratch volume first? I think Boots calls it the "scratch disk/work file" method which tends to be faster. Then backup to another drive while you work (which could be another RAID, and to a backup single drive).

Why partition the Raptors? Why not leave as 270GB? Is 80GB large enough? probably.

So is the rest of the Raptor space what you are calling "quicksave"?

If you are copying to/from the Raptors then I would say you are seeing "head thrashing" as it has to copy back and forth to the same drive(s).

sorry if I am not understanding exactly.

Are you 'reading along' with the PS Acceleration 2 pdf article?

Willc73
06-12-2006, 01:25 PM
ummmm,
I partitioned the raptors because I didn't need 270 gigs for just scratch. I labeled the other partition quicksave for saving from photoshop. Maybe I am doing this wrong, it was my understanding to have the scratch on a partition all of its own without any other data.
Do you suggest eliminating the partitions and using the one large volume to scratch and save?

I am saving from photoshop as a .tiff on CS2.

TZ
06-12-2006, 03:02 PM
thread CS2 features (http://www.macgurus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20330)
You made a comment to Boot's suggestion in another thread - Quad setup (http://www.macgurus.com/forums/showpost.php?p=96728&postcount=4) you might want to revisit and look at the advise he offered.

there are a number of good threads on Photoshop performance in this forum.

Willc73
06-12-2006, 06:34 PM
I see that, however I never knew what was meant by Scratch/work disk. I figured by partitioning I was creating a Scratch/work disk.

TZ
06-13-2006, 06:53 AM
It is confusing. In fact almost everything is or was at one time that I learned along the way. I use to get a headache and keep coming back and rereading about SCSI until my head hurt and I didn't know which way was up. ;-(

Copy the file you are working on to the scratch volume and work on it there, remember to save to another disk drive as needed - that is the way I think Boots intends.

Then there is the question of what size is considered large enough that you need 10GB RAM? and when is a file so small that more than 4GB RAM is as much as you want? how many layers etc?

Also, a question to ask: what size does a scratch need to be? or is it just that you want to use 4 or 8 drives?

And, the benchmark test utility is a handy way to monitor performance along with following the PS pdf guide.

Boots
06-13-2006, 01:08 PM
Willc73, I'm confused: do you have 8GB RAM (as listed in your signature) in that machine or 4GB as your earlier post states?
For tiff files that size, you will benefit greatly by installing 8-12GB (or at least 8GB).

Also- are those tiffs layered and/or compressed? That makes a big difference on opening and saving performance of tiffs. Both layered and compressed files take a lot longer to open and save.

"Work Disk/scratch Disk Method":

= a fast (200MB+ p/s sustained) 4 or 6 drive RAID0 as one large empty volume where the file to be worked on is copied/saved on to it and then opened from/saved to that same volume...

and

1. Photoshop's "First" scratch disk is designated as that same volume.

2. Periodically, while that file is worked on, it's backed up frequently to a standard volume of some kind.

3. The RAID0 volume is erased periodically. No files are permanently stored on it and only one or two, or a small number of image files are temporarily stored on it while being worked on.

Other items to whatch for:

Make sure Spotlight indexing is disabled for the "Work Disk/scratch Disk" volume.

If you have more than 4GB RAM installed in that machine, disable the VM Buffering Plug-in (http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=3337) if you have it installed.

Make sure Processor performance is set to Highest in the Energy saver preference pane.