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Disc2
04-22-2006, 11:06 PM
Hi- I have a Medea 4/160 and I would like to know if I can upgrade the drives inside. Can anybody recommend a replacement drive? The hard drive model inside is an IBM Deskstar DTLA-305040 - ATA/IDE. Capacity 41.1GB, 5400RPM RATED: 5v 300mA . 12V 400mA
It has 39 pin connection at the back and some 9pin with few jumpers connected. Any input will help. Thanks

TZ
04-23-2006, 07:47 AM
I don't know anything about the Medea. So here is what I've managed to learn... http://www.medea.com/


Storage by Medea VideoRaid 4/160 SCSI by Medea. VideoRaid disk arrays from Medea offer blazingly fast data transfer rates and are the best storage ...

4-drive desktop enclosure with capacities to 1600 GB
Single unit sustains 75 MB/second
Scalable to multi-terabyte capacities
Supports 4 streams of HDV in real-time

Hardware based RAID...appears as a single SCSI drive - no third party disk striping software required.


VideoRaid sustains its high data rates from the first GB of storage to the last GB thanks to Medea's proprietary Zone Stripe Technology (ZST). Simply attach VideoRaid SCSI to an Ultra Wide or Ultra2 SCSI host adapter board on your computer, install the included terminator and cable, and utilize the unit as if it were a single drive. VideoRaid SCSI is the undisputed price/performance leader in video storage solutions.

http://www.medea.com/flash2/CFML/Products/VideoRaidHDV.cfm

I found this thread very helpful:
http://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/new_read_post.cgi?forumid=52&postid=766444&archive=T

"You are limited to Ultra2, the firmware needs to be updated, and it is possible to use larger drives. (Medea doesn't like Seagate's for their poor write performance). "

http://www.shopping.com/xPF-Medea_VideoRaid_4_160_SCSI_4_drive_external_RAID_a rray_90051902

http://www.clubmac.com/clubmac/shop/detail~dpno~950735.asp

http://www.medea.com/flash2/PDF/PressReleases/PriceReduction10-00.pdf

You are going to be limited by the SCSI controller and the computer. One or two 10K SATA or SCSI drives running a stripped RAID will achieve 75MB/sec, or two 'normal' ATA or SATA drives. Any four drive RAID based on SATA

40GV
http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200008/20000831DTLA-305040_1.html

http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/products/Deskstar_40GV

Disc2
04-23-2006, 10:00 AM
Hi TZ,

You are going to be limited by the SCSI controller and the computer. One or two 10K SATA or SCSI drives running a stripped RAID will achieve 75MB/sec, or two 'normal' ATA or SATA drives. Any four drive RAID based on SATA


Is it possible to convert the case to SATA instead? If possible, what do I need?
Thanks again, -gerry

TZ
04-23-2006, 10:25 AM
Your setup requires using ATA drives.

If you want to use something else and more "modern" that works with SATA, you could - and probably should.

You didn't really add any information to help me answer or offer suggestions.

I'll leave you to your own research where you want to go with upgrade.

unclemac
04-23-2006, 04:46 PM
I haven't looked, but you need to know if there are limitations on the ATA spec of the drives you can use. Hypothetically, you may be able to use any drive you want, but it is likely that there are limitations for the controller itself....

As an example, some older RAID controllers can only handle a total volume size of 1000 GB. If that was the case with yours, then you would only want to get drives at a max of 250GB each (4 x 250 = 1000).

Could be other specs to worry about too. The short version is, you need to know what the specs are from Medea, otherwise, as TZ said, we would all be guessing.

As a general guide, for video you don't need to spend extra money on high cache drives - most are 8 megs these days, although more high end drives are showing up with 16 megs now. It is my understanding that the extra cache helps speed considerably with small files constantly accessed, such as a boot volume, but don't make a difference for long continous reads and writes like laying down video.

Other than that, just about any current ATA drive would give much better performance, be quieter, and generate less heat than what you have. I like the Seagate 7200.8 like MacGurus sells, but there are others that work very well too. Current Hitachi stuff is very good IMHO. And Seagate has a whole new crop of drives just hitting the market now (the march of HD updates, tweaks, and improvements is almost constant).

If you can dig up any more about the Medea ATA drive specs for your model, but aren't sure how to translate them ( :) )post them back here and we will assist if possible.

Disc2
04-23-2006, 06:02 PM
Hi TZ & UncleMac,
Thanks so much. I'll check and update you with the progress. I just purchased 4 Hitachi drives but not sure if it was a SATA or SCSI. not really familiar with specs. I saw the ones TZ mentioned in his post and might be close enough.- gerry

unclemac
04-23-2006, 07:46 PM
Happy to help.

From your description though, for this enclosure you will need ATA, sometimes called PATA (P=parallel). Nothing else is going to fit the cables correctly, unless you use an adapter which will add to expense, complexity, and may not even fit. Just a guess, but the RAID controller may be the bottleneck speed wise anyway, so drives faster than new ATA models may be a complete waste of speed and hassle anyway.

Disc2
04-23-2006, 08:41 PM
Hi UncleMac,
I found the manual that came with the drives and nothing shows any specs about them. But it has an integrated RAID 0 hardware controller and Medea's proprietary Zone Stripe Technology nothing much.
The disc that I purchased was 4 Hitachi Deskstar 82.3 GB 3.5" 7200rpm HDS722580VLAT20. Seems to me that I got a Serial ATA not a PATA but the one in the Medeas right now are ATA/IDE. I just got really confused with those acronyms.
You said "Nothing else is going to fit the cables correctly, unless you use an adapter which will add to expense,"
QUESTION:
Is it easy or possible to convert the enclosure so I can use the drives I bought? Will it be the same as the example as "Roll Your Own SATA"?
Please correct me if I'm wrong about an enclosure. An example will be an SCSI enclosure. I'll get 4 hard drives, 68 pin SCSI cable with 6 connectors. 4 for hard drives and 1 for terminator and 1 input from controller. Use jumpers on individual drives for the ID's. Use the enclosures power supply to connect all 4 drives. Connect to computer and use Apple Utility for raid.
If this is correct, does it also apply to SATA but different connectors?
How about the controller?
Anyway, thanks so much for the information and hope you give me more advice regarding this. -gerry

unclemac
04-23-2006, 10:57 PM
OK, let's start with the basics.

I am assuming your RAID box has 4 drives which connect to a RAID controller. The contoller in this type of arrangement "contols" the drives in such a way (through building and maintain an array of drives) that a single volume is presented to the OS on the computer, and the controller, not the OS keeps track of how the data is split up and stored on the drives.

So, it sounds as though your box is a ATA to SCSI controller, which takes less expensive ATA drives and presents them to the OS as a single SCSI volume. The OS "thinks" a single SCSI HD is attached. It knows nothing of the RAID, the drives, or anything else. It "thinks" all the data on the RAID array is on this "virtual" single SCSI drive. You should not need to do anything except initialize the 'virtual" SCSI drive just like any standard single drive.

With me so far?

Since you are leaning towards smaller drives, I assume either you don't expect to need that much space, or you are on a tight budget and are not trying to go big. Yes?

First, yes, although it may be possible to use a SATA drive with a SATA to PATA bridge (converter), I would really recommend you cancel your order and swap for ATA (PATA, or EIDE.....all the same thing).

Second, you will get better performance and total value with bigger new drives.

Next thing you need to answer yourself before you plop down money for drives is....how much space do you need? If you decide next month or next year you need more, you have to replace all four drives and start over, so think long term here.

If budget is your primary concern, let's review where and what you buying. :)

You need to heed TZ's advice and find out about the firmware update, and get your SCSCI stuff worked out first.

Swapping the drives is actually most likely to be the easiest part of this.

TZ
04-24-2006, 03:53 AM
If you only use it on ONE computer, you don't have to worry about moving it from Mac to PC etc which is why and what it is designed to be able to do, a Networked Storage (NAS).

If you stay with what you have, I pointed out the forum thread on firmware update issue and using new drives.

7K250 comes in PATA and SATA.
http://www.hitachigst.com/ -
http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/products/Deskstar_7K250
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/instgde.htm
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/jumpers.htm

A lot of people today are using "off the shelf" drives and controllers. Your setup was based on Ultra2 SCSI to ATA, using 7 yr old SCSI technology with 80MB/sec max. When ATA drives couldn't deliver more than 35MB/sec.

SATA drives - I think we have enough photos in the store, the SATA FAQ, that shows the new type of cables and back end. Anyway, rest easy, Hitachi says that is the PATA version of the drive.

(Still don't know what S or Mac etc this is connected to though.)